Public vs Private College

MichealKnight

Full time employment: Posting here.
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I'll preface with - while I will red and appreciate all replies, I am not asking about what is, or isn't "too much" to do for your kids. As someone who has never been to college yet has a 16 year old DD, this is something I feel I know nothing about.

DD: 16. Studious and works diligently. 10th grade was *major* spine surgery, replete with some anxiety and sleep issues point being, it diminished performance and extra curricular. Anyhow, it seems come application time we'll be a 4.1 GPA weighted, 3.7 GPA unweighted with a few Honors, Accelerated, and perhaps (2) AP classes tossed in. I am only speculating based on practice tests but I feel SATs will be 1350-ish. There's a few extra curricularS but nothing spectacular or standing out. While she has had a rather comfortable life (trappings of upscale life -house, nice cars, vacations, money never a problem knock on wood) she prefers going with Mom to TJ Max and always tells me "Daddy we don't need to fly in the big seats all the time I'm just so happy we're even going" point being - not flashy nor materialistic. Our upscale area and school district has kids with the latest of everything - DD basically only asks for a new I-watch every 3 years and even that she is apprehensive lol. Introverted. My business life was AWESOME but I ran into trouble hence, I'm 49 - retired for 4 years now. My "PLAN" for her vis a vis money help: I admit, because of my semi-failure in business I feel it important to do all I can in that I can't make her a trust-fund-baby (nor would I have)....but I feel duty bound to give her a head start..... again - if situation, maturity, all of that is good in future.

$440k College - ( 220k) State College 4 years, plus a $220K+ good masters I program if wanted.)
$90k = 20% down on house when ready and if prudent market-wise in future.
$75k = wedding. (I know, all speculation)
$25k = emergency fund
$40k = in a retirement account
$10k = accountant/lawyer fund if ever needed
$20k = medical fund if needed (for extenuating stuff. The stuff insurance doesn't cover. Etc etc etc)

$710K TOTAL. This was my plan and barring major economic calamity- I feel I can do this. College discussions/research has begun. Will do campus visits etc. MY

QUANDRY:



State College would be U Pittsburgh or Penn State. IF we get into private colleges I feel it'll be full-pay. (My assets means $90k expected pay ability ). Right now, NOT close to sure about future profession.... mild interest in teaching, BUT showing tons of interest in Advanced Biology and Anatomy. (Oh God please why not something with good pay! lol)

So, State School VERSUS a Bucknlell, LaFayette, Lehigh, etc. Trouble is - Private College means another $140k....meaning no money left for the extra stuff I want to do.

My question.....

For 4 years: What is the different between a big state school like Pitt and a small, selective, private college with good reputation? I try to tell myself - oh- it can't be that big a difference but then again I feel there MUST be a difference. Smaller classes, better and more accessible professors, better networking be it profs or parents.....to a layman....is it logical to say hanging with the $90K per year tuition crowd vs the $60k per year crowd means "better" in those categories? I dont know the answer.

Hence I'm here asking.....

Is it better to go all out, do the private 'selective' college for a 4 year degree? OR better to do a state school, then pour on the money for a good master's program - but then have money left for the seedling to a retirement fund, home ownership, etc?

Would love any opinions or experiences.

This is truly the first time I regret having kids and regret not doing the college thing because now, I cannot advise or guide on any of this stuff.
 
Strictly cynical opinion so don't take it the wrong way, I don't know about other states but here in CA the top public UC schools (LA, Berkeley, Davis, San Diego, etc.) are very competitive and laden with high-achieving middle class kids due to the free education (yes, tuition-free compared to out-of-state tuition but fees do cost something). Private universities are difficult to get into but also difficult to flunk out or flame out. Public universities have no problem discarding underachieving undergraduates. Those high-achieving middle class kids generally come from households that have too much income to qualify for financial hardship and too little income to fund a private university tuition and board load.

There are many kids who were at the top of their high school class and get the shock of their life at a UC campus when they realize what smart really means and have to come to the realization that there are many kids out there far smarter than they thought they were. Many flame out of their engineering, pre-med and computer science programs and change to business, economics and other majors that don't have lab time commitments and brainiacs who enjoy quantum mechanics and non-linear optimization problems.

That said, if you can afford it a private university is a great place to have fun, make friends for life and get a degree that impresses recruiters with little or no chance of flaming out. The one thing about college is the speed is so much faster than any AP program in high school could even think about matching (STEM subjects) and it is the speed that sinks or swims many students struggling to keep pace, because unlike public K-12 the instructors don't slow down the coursework because some students can't keep up.

If you're cost constrained a strong community college is a good alternative and this is because if he/she high achieves there the opportunities to join a 4-year college is pretty good because of the lower division flameouts allow for a certain number of upper division transfers. Many get into elite programs as entering juniors this way. They nail the community college and are very attractive to universities looking for JC transfers. 2 years at a community college plus 2 years at a 4-year university yields the same degree with no taint when it comes to credentials.

Just sayin'
 
I'm a state school guy and worked with a lot of successful people with the same background. Also had a few well-grounded, excellent people at my former employer from the elite side. I also changed careers from my degree field and worked in another field unrelated to my degree before finding my professional sweet spot. My SIL did the same. Anecdote of one, but maybe the degree doesn't matter as much as we think.

My kids had a fixed amount of money to go to school. Between 529s and FL's state scholarships, they could attend in-state and have enough for a Master's or go out of state for a Bachelor's only. Both chose to go to FL schools.

I think a big part of this decision is the intended career and desired location. For example, if one wants to be a lawyer in NYC/DC/Philly, education credentials matter more there than someone wanting to work on water rights in the West, where a good regional state school would provide better background. For a teacher, private schools are a waste of money IMO.

I believe it's different if a Master's is required for employment, but you have to be mindful of the career earnings opportunity. An Ivy Master's to do counseling isn't going to pay better than an MSW from a good state school, but it may get you hired sooner.

For engineering and hard sciences, I would look at the best schools you can afford and your kid can handle. And don't downplay affordability. I encouraged my kids to get internships for exposure to the areas of interests. Good for the resume and helped them to find areas of specialty they would not have otherwise.

This is a hard situation with no easy answers, and you won't know the outcome for several years. I understand the parental commitment, don't feel bad about putting some financial constraints on it though. A college degree isn't the ticket to a good paying job as it was for me decades ago. My kids' peer group is seeing that today.

PA has good public and private schools, so you are looking at better choices than you would be in other locales. Recommend you develop a budget you can live with and don't allow her to get student loans to cover any gap between what you'll pay and what "she wants".
 
Our boys did private. But, unfortunately, MIT/Harvey Mudd/Rice/CalTech/Ivy etc. aren't likely to be in your daughter's cards if you are thinking 1350 SATs and only some APs (unless USAMO etc??) .... Son 1, a national level math geek, chose Mudd over MIT with the expectation that he'd do the PhD in Cambridge, which is consistent with what you are thinking about. (He, however, was lured by the silicon valley money and only got his BS.)

DW and I did nonselective privates with scholarships (Free is best!) for both undergrad and professional school and never looked back.

Look closely at merit scholarships. National merit finalists have a lot of options both public and private; other high scoring folks can look at private schools' tables that detail what tuition discounts are available for SAT scores X and/or GPA Y. There are excellent publics out there--and if she works the system right as a student, they can provide a great pathway.
 
QUANDRY:

State College would be U Pittsburgh or Penn State.
Well that's easy. FOR THE GLORY......... :cool:

Seriously as stated earlier, the career field can make a difference in some cases. That aside, FWIW (probably not much) I have been in the college education business a long time and know family/friends who were HR for various companies and/or recruiters. My general impression/experience is that on the whole when job hunting, what college one got a degree from mattered less than their GPA and how the interviews went...and the more experience one accumulates over time, where they got that degree matters less and less.
 
Go take a look at ROI on any university.... you will see that private does not pay for itself...

ALSO, you mention teaching or some other 'lower' paying job... that to me moves the needle 100% to state U....
Now, at least here there is a wider cost to different state schools... take a look and see...

WOW>>>> $75K for wedding.... I cannot let me DD see this one!!!
 
To pay private university fees for an undergraduate education makes no sense to me. For graduate school I might take a second look.

I can create a fairly significant list of friends and relatives, some you likely know from their jobs and reputation who attended public university. It was their own personal drive and encouragement from family, as well as some luck that created their success.

My two kids went to public university. DS who had a difficult high school career, dropped out in his junior year of college. He is now in his 20th year at one of the most admired tech companies in USA. At the time and perhaps still, they were looking for ability and not degrees.

DD, a top of the class high school student finished a public university in 3.5 years with a fairly worthless (for employment) social science degree. She took the time however to decide on a career choice. She went to graduate school totally outside of her undergraduate degree. She actually had to retake some science classes that she tested out while in high school. She now has a job she loves and a steady stream of promotions

I have thought about your question a lot, albeit, years ago. I do not think times have changed. University is a time of growth and personal discovery. I think that happens equally well at nearly any college. Save the cash for graduate school, grand kids, or other support you may want to provide to your children.
 
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I did very well for myself at a big state university. Got a chemical engineering degree, and was able to RE at 57 with $4+ million after saving a good portion of a good income.
 
Your “PLAN” is awesome, but what will SHE want in 2 years?

Get the basic courses that will transfer at a local tech college, then transfer to a state university. Much more cost effective!

In my experience it’s the PERSON, not the college, that makes the real difference.
 
Two of my DD went the small, private school route. Great experience, small class, etc. Both got teaching degrees, taught a couple of years and are now stay at home mom’s. As we had saved enough along with scholarships for them to go the private way I’m happy for them. Other DD went Public school route, 300+ kids in lecture hall, etc. She is graphic designer doing what she loves as well.
Overall unless she’s certain, the local get the core out of the way school makes a lot of sense. It’s hard to get into Georgia as a freshman. It’s easy as a junior transfer.
 
She's in 10th grade so other than figuring out a rough goal of how much to save, this is very premature.

What does she want to be when she grows up? (I didn't know in 10th grade, nor 12th for that matter). What does she think about where she might want to go? - and don't even expect a grounded answer to that until the start of 12th grade.

Field of study and career should drive the school choice, if it's at all a specialty. If it's just a basic Business degree or something, almost anywhere will do.

ps, never ever again say you regret having kids, you never know when one of them will find this...
 
Both of my college grads went to state schools in Illinois. We were able to pay tuition and boarding costs without any student loans. One is a teacher in Washington state while the other is a Hardware tech director for a nasdaq listed company. I think it worked out better to go the state school route in our case. No loans and good results.
 
In my experience it’s the PERSON, not the college, that makes the real difference.
This is very, very important. We learned it the tough way, we sent 2 of our sons to the same private university. One thrived, the other dropped out, and years later finished up at a state school. It was more about personalities an atmosphere than studies. The son who dropped out primarily wanted to go to the private school because his sibling was there, and we were blinded by a scholarship offer... in retrospect one of the several other schools he had been admitted to (including the one he eventually got his degree from) would have been a better choice.

A small school might better for a quieter person, less chance to get loss in the shuffle. Or perhaps for someone who might get distracted from studies from all of the on and off campus extracurricular activities. But, one key thing is how approachable and involved with students the professors are, as that is the key for finding out about long term career opportunities. The student should be willing and able to meet with the professor during their office hours (assuming they hold them), even if they are doing well in their class, as it does make an impression on the professor as someone who is interested in the subject.

Be sure to visit and spend time at each potential school. One of the key questions to ask is, do they track how their students do after graduation. Some do, and you can get a feel for what you will get for what you are spending. Some avoid doing this - in my opinion, that throws up a caution.
 
Just to throw out a couple of other thoughts....

A lot can happen in the two years... my DD knew she wanted to go to big State... the only thing that came into her head was when she went to see her brother she 'had' to go to University of Washington... she got smart when I said I was only paying X no matter where she went... and out of state rates would have eaten that up in no time...

I had also suggested community college for DD... if you know where you want to go you can look to see which courses you can transfer... nobody that I know of looks to see if you attended the university you graduate from the whole degree plan... so two years at CC and two at State looks the same as four at State... but cheaper.. maybe MUCH cheaper...

Now, DD wanted State and it is hard to get into State and she was guaranteed entry by state law so she went..
 
Your “PLAN” is awesome, but what will SHE want in 2 years?

Get the basic courses that will transfer at a local tech college, then transfer to a state university. Much more cost effective!

In my experience it’s the PERSON, not the college, that makes the real difference.
Only thing I can add to this is that I know very few people who went to school to "become something" and then "became THAT something." Even those who became "THAT something in name" find out that the "something," is actually very different than what they expected or even wanted at the time. Heh, heh, happened to me.

If I'm making a point, it would be to become as well rounded as possible and get lots of experiences along the way. Become as flexible as possible. Be open to possibilities.

I think all this suggests a very good State school vs a more expensive private school. Maybe set aside some of the "extra" money to cover expenses of an unpaid (or poorly paid) internship during a couple of summers.

I have seen young college kids at my Megacorp come in for internships and it's crystallized their thinking on what they want. Internships have given them experience and set them up for great future j*bs - either at our Megacorp or another one.

College is great but "life" is more important in learning what one wants. Just something to think about since YMMV.
 
You are being very generous, even "if situation, maturity, all of that is good in future".
My vote is for the state school for undergraduate. Ideally, grad school will be paid for with the help of a future employer. The school matters little in real life, unless being part of the old boy network is essential. It is all down to what you can do once you get to the job. If she is interested an anything in the STEM arena she will have good earning potential. As Koolau has mentioned an internship is invaluable.

 
When looking at medical, dental and vet programs at a state school, It seemed like more kids went to state schools for undergrad and where from smaller towns and even a few that had professional experience but didn't finish undergrad. So maybe if you go private for undergrad, you also go private for a professional degree if you are accepted in those schools as well.
 
If your daughter is pretty sure she will go on to graduate school, then save the money and go to state university for bachelor's level. Unless she can get some scholarship help where private may be the same or less net cost. Many private universities have programs that help kids with financially capable parents; not a full free ride, but reducing costs where it is similar to state school. Your daughter certainly still has good grades and likely test scores where she can get into a more popular school public or private.

That said, in the end of schooling the name of the school on the degree may help get that first job. But after that it is what have you done and how good you are at what the company wants. It's the toolbox analogy, you graduate with a toolbox full of tools, and then it becomes how good can you use those tools. Not what name is on the toolbox.

I agree if she can handle the math, a STEM degree will have her set up for successful career.
 
These next two years will be a great time for you and DD to explore her interests and start looking at colleges, both online and in person.
If she desires a smaller school, or is not sure exactly what she wants, perhaps a community college at first.
Both of my kids went that route. DS went on to double Masters with Honors, DD did not. They are both doing well.
 
I am going to watch as well. I have a high school freshman and I know private is in the cards for her. Personality, aptitude, and needs turned me from saying "big state school" to she needs something smaller to make connections and not get lost. Diagnosed in 6th grade as on the spectrum it change my perspective from "we can pay 4 years public and anything above she can decide to pay herself (this was my motto when they were born)." I always had the goal of 4 years in state tuition/room fees, etc. Thought it was pretty generous and good goal.

To "she's smart, capable, amazing, what does she need to be successful? A smaller program much like she's in for high school? Then we're going to afford it because it's the right thing to do." And I want to help her become a sucessful, happy, confident, contributing member of society. And maybe it means more money and support.

I'm not saying it's for everyone and I get people can't afford it. But I know we can afford it so instead of placing limitations, I'm supporting her decisions and giving open feedback and support now. We have a lot of conversations about what she wants to do, if she HAPPY, how is it making friends, does she need more support. So to me I just am trying to make sure she can make a decision free from financial constraints and have a future with a safety net just in case.

Best laid plans can change.
 
I’d rate Pitt and Penn State higher than Bucknell or Lehigh. (Being an academic, I’m admittedly influenced by research reputations in my field.) Have your daughter apply to the Honors programs at the publics. She’ll still get some of the private school feel with small class sizes and motivated/talented peers.

As somebody else mentioned, paying big bucks for a Top 20 could be justified, but beyond that, the benefits are probably not significant.
 
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While she has had a rather comfortable life (trappings of upscale life -house, nice cars, vacations, money never a problem knock on wood) she prefers going with Mom to TJ Max and always tells me "Daddy we don't need to fly in the big seats all the time I'm just so happy we're even going"

I don't have any special advice, but I would just like to congratulate you on raising her well.
 
My 4 siblings and I all went to state schools but I guess that’s ancient history now. We did very well. Dad later said he wished they’d sent us to the Ivies (assuming we could get in) for the “network”. Well, yeah, I don’t know any CEOs, Congress critters or Supreme Court judges but I still did OK.

I sent DS to Drake- a good choice for him since I think he would have gotten lost at a large state U. Professors and even the President were accessible.

Although your daughter hasn’t settled on a field yet I think that’s also important. If there’s any likelihood she’ll want to attend grad school (or law or Med school) the quality of her undergrad school may be relevant.

But hey, my sister got into Ohio State’s Med school with a Med Tech degree from Akron State.
 
I knew that I would not be that happy at a big school so I chose a small, highly focused polytechnic type private school. Once I was working with say 15 or 20 engineers in a group, you could honestly tell the ones that went to good schools (some public and some private) from the ones that did not (or at least the ones that chose to really learn while they were in school). I think the goal should be to go to the best school for your major that you can get into and that the student is comfortable at, regardless of public or private where cost, as in the OP's case, is not a factor. Of course people may work in fields other than their major but a really great school teaches you how to learn and think through problems as much as it teaches you to specific subject matter.
 
..... What does she want to be when she grows up? (I didn't know in 10th grade, nor 12th for that matter). ....

I never did figure out the answer to that question, so I did a lot of things. Lucky for me, the things that interested me and that I was good at doing also paid well. But I certainly couldn't have told you in the 10th grade that I would end up doing any of them.

My general recommendation is to choose the path that forecloses the fewest options.
 
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