Public vs Private College

[Koolau]

Back in the late 60s, early 70's many private colleges were predominantly one gender or the other.
Hence the need to cross-pollinate, for lack of a better term...

Yeah, the "dirty little secret" surrounding finding a "great guy" at college these days is (wait for it) 60% of college enrollment is (wait for it) female.

Heh, heh, not like when I went to a STEM school in the '60s. I was in some physics, chem and math classes where there were one or two women. What was that term Maverick and Goose used in "Top Gun?" A "Target Rich Environment."

Women Continue To Outpace Men In College Enrollment And Graduation

Whether it involves enrolling in college or graduating within six years, women continue to surpass men by large margins on both measures.

www.forbes.com

 

[athena53]

Heh, heh, not like when I went to a STEM school in the '60s. I was in some physics, chem and math classes where there were one or two women. What was that term Maverick and Goose used in "Top Gun?" A "Target Rich Environment."

Oh, yeah. I'm female, went to a state school and took a lot of Math, Physics and programming courses. Finding dates was pretty easy. One actuary I know went to Rensselaer and her mother, who was very traditional, didn't get it. Mom brightened up when they got on campus and she saw the heavily-male student body. Oooh, husband material!

 

[CO-guy]

I worked with one guy who said he preferred to hire people from "cow colleges"- typically respectable state universities. So, yeah, there is that anti-elite bias in some circles.

Well, we live in cattle country, so it would make sense. However, I could not imagine being as humble as she is given her accomplishments. Now she's gone from new hire to department head in under 2 years, so making up for lost time.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

To me arguing about which college to go to is like asking a starving person where they should eat. If you have a choice you shouldn't complain either way. First world problems.

Get an education and go to work. Let your work be your example not your alma mater.

I grew up on a family farm on the verge of bankruptcy (back when that could happen in 1984) and graduated high school. I had a very high GPA but had to stay home and help on the farm to save it. I got a part time job at a small business in town and ended up buying the place. I worked there 32 years and NOBODY asked me where I went to college ( I didn't). My clients trusted me when I did my job for them. I FIRED 32 years later. without a college degree. I did earn the highest industry degree designations on my own while working, but didn't advertise it.

I don't mean to belittle college choices, but please don't get caught up in people bowing down to a degree out here in the real world. Don't expect your degree to impress others. Some employers might care out of the gate, but customers would prefer results, even if you went to Hard Knocks University. Employers will let performers raise to the top no matter where they went to college. Or even if they didn't go at all.

Did you ask your Doctor, Dentist, Pastor, Teacher, Plumber, Realtor, Financial Planner, Electrician or any other skilled professional where they got their degree before you hired them.... ? I didn't. I hired the person who had a good reputation, answered the phone and did the job.

As for meeting your soul mate based on what college you got to based on its cost? That's crazy. Maybe in the 1800's



I

 

[Sunset]

This about private schools is something i was thinking. The like private high schools you might be getting what you pay for. I'm not saying you should but just something to consider.

Private schools try to the sell the idea that they ensure success of your expensive education.

A doctor I know went to a cheap southern college for his medical degree, he commented that as a doctor he was working with other doctors from different IVY league Colleges. The difference between him and them was not the pay, position, or respect.
They all huge student debts, he had zero debt because his College was so cheap and he didn't have to borrow much to attend.

Personally, I went to a public University, the worst ranked University in the country. So bad it was called last chance U. Nobody cared which University when it came to hiring as long as I had the degree, and 5 years into the job, they really only looked at work history.

 

[TheWizard]

Top tier private colleges have a lot of foreign students because they, and their families, understand the value of high quality education, perhaps more than the average US person does.

I don't advertise the place I attended for my degrees, but we had a lot of mostly Asian foreign students who do well in various technical fields...

 

[TheWizard]

Additionally, most top tier private colleges have financial aid to the extent that many moderate income families pay no more than they would for a state university. That was true in my case.

I have no regrets for aiming high when it comes to education...

 

[ncbill]

Top tier private colleges have a lot of foreign students because they, and their families, understand the value of high quality education, perhaps more than the average US person does.

I don't advertise the place I attended for my degrees, but we had a lot of mostly Asian foreign students who do well in various technical fields...

until recently the private university here had a bunch of Chinese students.

mainly because their parents were well-connected, including with the CCP, & could pay full-freight.

the school loved that!

 

[Gumby]

I would say that the name of my college, and especially my law school, got me job interviews I may not otherwise have gotten. In the end, however, it was up to me to land the job and then perform well.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Most likely you won’t have to pay for graduate school if your daughter does well in college. Both my graduate degrees were free not based on financial need and the second one even gave me a monthly stipend to help with living expenses. Teaching was not my primary career and just something I did part time in retirement for fun.

 

[bright eyed]

I have one who just graduated college and one who just entered (second is extremely bright, bio kid, low salary likely animal lover - bio is very competitive at most schools). We chose a small campus public school that has been wonderful so far. Kid has some medical issues and needs a supportive campus environment, weather, and accommodations and this school has been outstanding. They also have one of the strongest programs in the areas they want to study, strong partnerships with research institutions, state/fed agencies and government, nonprofits who work in this area and kids get hired for internships and jobs all over the place. Don't look at the usual stuff, go deeper. Many people blow off schools because of less competitive admissions or less name recognition, but ultimately, many schools have the same/similar outcomes in terms of salaries and jobs after graduation. Unless your kid is trying to get into something where prestige is required, I'd let that go. Part of the reason my kid's school is so supportive is they have to work harder to make sure a high percentage of their kids succeed (given high acceptance rate) and they have resources and support all over the place, it's amazing. Your kid sounds well suited for a great career in nonprofits, science, research. I don't have as much saved as you do (great job and very thoughtful), but they won't graduate with debt.

If anything, I'd save as much as possible to help them make a down payment as cost of living is outrageous in most places and they will need the most help there, then they can enjoy their modest salary career and maybe even help the world a bit.

 

[Texas Proud]

Did you ask your Doctor, Dentist, Pastor, Teacher, Plumber, Realtor, Financial Planner, Electrician or any other skilled professional where they got their degree before you hired them.... ? I didn't. I hired the person who had a good reputation, answered the phone and did the job.

Yes, there are successful people who did not go to college, but more that did...

And this is a bad example... My Doctor, Dentist, most pastors, Teachers all have to have formal education to get to that position.. they have passed some state requirement saying they are good enough to do the job... after that is is reputation which is what I think you are saying...

One thing that people seem to not get is that a degree does not mean an education... I saw many students that passed their courses but had not idea of what they were doing... they had a degree but no knowledge...

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I think we're saying the same thing. What I was trying to say is that people who went to a public school can easily be as quaified as one who went to a private school. The people I mentioned above (Doctor, Dentist ETAL) have formal educations for sure. So does my plumber, electrician and HVAC technician.

I couldn't agree more when you state that a degree does not mean education.

I didn't go to college. Thats a whole different topic I shouldn't have brought up.

 

[bright eyed]

I think we're saying the same thing. What I was trying to say is that people who went to a public school can easily be as quaified as one who went to a private school. The people I mentioned above (Doctor, Dentist ETAL) have formal educations for sure. So does my plumber, electrician and HVAC technician.

I couldn't agree more when you state that a degree does not mean education.

I didn't go to college. Thats a whole different topic I shouldn't have brought up.

And for FWIW there's a lot of mediocre private schools or those who have juiced their rankings because of how competitive the application process has become. I know too many people paying $60k+ a year for a private school when they could have gone to a state school with far better resources, also have small classes and great experiences.

 

[Koolau]

To me arguing about which college to go to is like asking a starving person where they should eat. If you have a choice you shouldn't complain either way. First world problems.

Get an education and go to work. Let your work be your example not your alma mater.


Employers will let performers raise to the top no matter where they went to college. Or even if they didn't go at all.

My Megacorp was incredibly "prejudiced" when it came to degree vs no degree and also which degree (BA, MS, PhD) and WHERE you got your degree.

With no degree, it was virtually impossible to be designated as a "professional" (we called it "exempt.") Now, it WAS possible to earn a good living by moving up in the non-exempt c@reer track BUT, without a degree, you weren't going to be asked to professional meetings or travel, etc.

You were locked into your c@reer track without the degree - even if you could do the w*rk. (BUT, as I said, you could get paid pretty well - especially since you'd be eligible for overtime pay!) I often wondered if I'd made a mistake getting a degree since lots of non-degree people made as much as I did (I didn't get paid OT and they did.) But, without the degree, you started as janitorial staff and w*rked your way up!

In our professional "staff" positions, there were only degree personnel. In our "managerial" line, we had what we (staff people) called the "Harvard Mafia." The ones who became true "executives" or other top managers/directors were ALL PhD and most from the very top schools.

Each Megacorp has its own "culture." It's neither good nor bad but just "is" and you're free to play their game or go elsewhere. It turned out well for me, but I had no illusions that I was valued as much as our "elite" brethren (and - eventually - elite sistren.)

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I understand that and the educated culture exists, and I know its true. I was self employed and nobody (I mean NOBODY) cared where I went to college, or if I went at all.

The Kennedy family didn't send their kids to a community college in some small town in New England. I understand the social positioning that private colleges mean to people. I also believe that this positioning means a lot more to people than it does employers and customers that we all eventually work for and serve.

My point is this. Don't think you are doomed to failure because you didn't graduate from an expensive college. And, don't think you deserve success and privilege because you graduated from an expensive college.

Earn what you get and be happy for everyone.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

2 comments:

1. Throughout my career in the military, I worked with officers from all different backgrounds. Some had no college, some went to Podunk U, some went to the big state college, others went to private school, some went to Ivy League schools, and of course many from the academies. It really didn't make a difference where they went, some of the smartest and highest performers had no college, while some of the Ivy League folks were walking disasters. So it really doesn't matter where you go to college.

2. When my oldest started looking at college, I was very opposed to private schools, based on the price compared to the in-state options like UVA, William & Mary, Virginia Tech, etc. But once we did the research and realized how many grants and how much scholarship money is available for the private schools, it quickly changed my mind. Her small private college has been quite good for her, and ended up costing far less than any of the state colleges.

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^^^^

Yeah, in the long run, cost is likely more important than private vs public, prestigious vs cow-college.

 

[38Chevy454]

Also remember the old joke
Q: what do they call the person that graduates last in their medical school class?
A: Doctor

 

[athena53]

In our professional "staff" positions, there were only degree personnel. In our "managerial" line, we had what we (staff people) called the "Harvard Mafia." The ones who became true "executives" or other top managers/directors were ALL PhD and most from the very top schools.

Each Megacorp has its own "culture." It's neither good nor bad but just "is" and you're free to play their game or go elsewhere. It turned out well for me, but I had no illusions that I was valued as much as our "elite" brethren (and - eventually - elite sistren.)

Now that I think of it- I worked for an insurance sub of a company I'll call  Giant  Enterprise. All their top executives were home-grown and drawn from a pool of candidates recruited only from the top schools. It was pretty intense-maybe 2 years in aircraft engines, 2 years in the financing arm, etc. If you didn't go to those schools you weren't recruited for that track. (Sometimes the results of these people to try and run an insurance company like a manufacturing facility weren't so successful.)

With so much of recruiting on-line now I wonder if they do the same on-campus recruiting but it may be that if you want to get into a very selective corporate program or grad school you'd better get your undergrad degree where they recruiit.

 

[pb4uski]

I suggest that you follow her lead on the college... just let her know that you love her and will support whatever she decides within reason but to not rule out any great opportunities because of money before talking with you. IME there are lots good schools and as they say, the texts are generally the same everywhere.

In my career, I had work colleagues from Harvard and Wharton who were good but not outstanding and didn't feel at all disadvantaged because I had not attended a big name school.

My employer paid for my grad school and if she is good then the doctoral programs will be falling over each other to get her. A friend's grandson's girlfriend attended a industry conference in California and after one of the sessions someone from a big name university approached her and asked her if she would be interested in their PhD program.

When it comes to weddings, we said that we would pay for the first $x, split the next $y 50/50 and anything above that was on them. I must have miscalculated, because DD accepted straight away and seemed suprised/grateful. As it turned out, I wrote them a check for $x which I suspect exceeded their cost and they were very happy with that.

For the rest, play it by ear.

 

[jgrdarrash]

I would lean into the career interest inventories. If your child is a real introvert teaching, medicine/nurse practitioner might not be the best fit. Once you have that idea pick a school that could accommodate all the possible careers on their list.

 

[anothercog]

I'll preface with - while I will red and appreciate all replies, I am not asking about what is, or isn't "too much" to do for your kids. As someone who has never been to college yet has a 16 year old DD, this is something I feel I know nothing about.

DD: 16. Studious and works diligently. 10th grade was *major* spine surgery, replete with some anxiety and sleep issues point being, it diminished performance and extra curricular. Anyhow, it seems come application time we'll be a 4.1 GPA weighted, 3.7 GPA unweighted with a few Honors, Accelerated, and perhaps (2) AP classes tossed in. I am only speculating based on practice tests but I feel SATs will be 1350-ish. There's a few extra curricularS but nothing spectacular or standing out. While she has had a rather comfortable life (trappings of upscale life -house, nice cars, vacations, money never a problem knock on wood) she prefers going with Mom to TJ Max and always tells me "Daddy we don't need to fly in the big seats all the time I'm just so happy we're even going" point being - not flashy nor materialistic. Our upscale area and school district has kids with the latest of everything - DD basically only asks for a new I-watch every 3 years and even that she is apprehensive lol. Introverted. My business life was AWESOME but I ran into trouble hence, I'm 49 - retired for 4 years now. My "PLAN" for her vis a vis money help: I admit, because of my semi-failure in business I feel it important to do all I can in that I can't make her a trust-fund-baby (nor would I have)....but I feel duty bound to give her a head start..... again - if situation, maturity, all of that is good in future.

$440k College - ( 220k) State College 4 years, plus a $220K+ good masters I program if wanted.)
$90k = 20% down on house when ready and if prudent market-wise in future.
$75k = wedding. (I know, all speculation)
$25k = emergency fund
$40k = in a retirement account
$10k = accountant/lawyer fund if ever needed
$20k = medical fund if needed (for extenuating stuff. The stuff insurance doesn't cover. Etc etc etc)

$710K TOTAL. This was my plan and barring major economic calamity- I feel I can do this. College discussions/research has begun. Will do campus visits etc. MY

QUANDRY:


State College would be U Pittsburgh or Penn State. IF we get into private colleges I feel it'll be full-pay. (My assets means $90k expected pay ability ). Right now, NOT close to sure about future profession.... mild interest in teaching, BUT showing tons of interest in Advanced Biology and Anatomy. (Oh God please why not something with good pay! lol)

So, State School VERSUS a Bucknlell, LaFayette, Lehigh, etc. Trouble is - Private College means another $140k....meaning no money left for the extra stuff I want to do.

My question.....

For 4 years: What is the different between a big state school like Pitt and a small, selective, private college with good reputation? I try to tell myself - oh- it can't be that big a difference but then again I feel there MUST be a difference. Smaller classes, better and more accessible professors, better networking be it profs or parents.....to a layman....is it logical to say hanging with the $90K per year tuition crowd vs the $60k per year crowd means "better" in those categories? I dont know the answer.

Hence I'm here asking.....

Is it better to go all out, do the private 'selective' college for a 4 year degree? OR better to do a state school, then pour on the money for a good master's program - but then have money left for the seedling to a retirement fund, home ownership, etc?

Would love any opinions or experiences.

This is truly the first time I regret having kids and regret not doing the college thing because now, I cannot advise or guide on any of this stuff.

I certainly would not be willing to pay sticker price for a non-top private school. I might for Stanford, MIT or Harvard as they really open doors and provide an amazing alumni network. That said, I would not rule out private. There are always scholarships and her spine surgery ordeal will make a great college essay that can overcome any grade shortcomings.

I went to Lehigh for a year. They gave me great need-based aid, but in the end I really didn't like it and left for a state school a little closer to home that I enjoyed.

As others have said, let her lead the way but perhaps set some expectations with costs to private schools and that she would need some scholarship money to make it a reality. Regardless, avoid any debt for undergrad.

My daughter is a senior now and we are going through the application process. She has interest in USC and I am encouraging her to apply but also let her know she would need to find some merit scholarships to bring the costs down. Fortunately, we live in California and I think our UC schools are great BUT they are extremely difficult to get into. UCLA is her top choice but I think she has a better chance at USC. The UCs don't accept standardized test scores and without them, it difficult to gauge her chances of getting in when everyone that applies has over a 4.0 GPA. On the plus side, it's much easier to transfer in from a community college and she already has a ton of community college credits so if she doesn't get in as a freshman, she can apply the following year as a junior transfer.

 

[indiajust]

The school chosen is irrelevant, as diplomas are interchangeable goods. Lowest price wins. Shop by program, not by school, when you are sure what you want. College expense and delayed income does more harm than good. Spend a year or two exploring and working. If you find something that you think is worth pursuing and requires college, make a plan then.

You are leaving 5-7 years of non income out of the calculation. This is a million dollar hole you are willfully climbing into. Not a bet I would make.

 

[Gumby]

The school chosen is irrelevant, as diplomas are interchangeable goods. Lowest price wins. Shop by program, not by school, when you are sure what you want. College expense and delayed income does more harm than good. Spend a year or two exploring and working. If you find something that you think is worth pursuing and requires college, make a plan then.

You are leaving 5-7 years of non income out of the calculation. This is a million dollar hole you are willfully climbing into. Not a bet I would make.

That depends on what you want to do. If you want to be a lawyer, you have to go to college and law school. If you want to be a medical doctor - college and medical school. You might as well get started on it right away if that's what you really want. And your specific law school or medical school will almost certainly make a difference in your future employment prospects. Your undergraduate school will not be so important, except as an entree to the right professional school.