Relationship as a FIREd widower

B

Bobloblaw

Dryer sheet wannabe
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
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I'm curious to get feedback on dating, long term commitments, and finding the right partner when FIREd.

I was widowed several years ago after my wife of 27+ years succumbed to cancer. I was 49 when I stopped working and thankfully we had lived well below our means, earned well, and invested well. This enabled me to spend as much time together and care for my wife in her final years. I will always thank young "us" for enabling middle-aged "me" to have that time and no longer needing to work. Independent of her illness, we would have been able to retire now, travel the world, and live the good life.

I am doing well emotionally and have been seeing someone for the last year or so. We are compatible in many ways, but one striking difference is that even though I am 4 years younger, I am retired and essentially financially set for life. She, however, will need to work to 65- she has a great job, makes good money, but doesn't have the savings I do. She was a single mom of 3 with full custody. Her income today and for the last few years is in the top 5% range but that wasn't always the case, hence her lower savings.

So how does one deal with that? It's probably a 10X imbalance in net worth between the two of us. We have done a lot of travel over the last year, her work schedule and budget permitting, but I have subsidized some of that plus I probably pay for our dates/time together on the order of 2:1.

So, I know it's highly unlikely I'd find someone in my financial situation that checks all the other boxes. I don't see us moving in together anytime soon for multiple reasons. But I also wonder going forward does our relationship make sense? I am not willing, at this time, to sign up to support her or anyone (other than my kids) financially. Plus, looking towards another 8 years or so where I have all the time and plenty of money to do whatever I want and she has limits on both. And, I can afford to gift my kids and subsidize their lives, while she would not in retirement. I wonder about what happens 10 years from now if we're partnered up? For example, I could take my kids on fairly nice vacations, help them buy homes, etc. She could not for hers and I don't want to take financial care of anyone else's kids.

And, once she retires, in 8ish years, we'll still be in very different financial positions.

How detailed should we discuss finances? She knows we're in different positions. I don't know how she'll react if she knows how different. I'm a stealth wealth kind of guy, so you wouldn't know how much I have and how much I can spend just by looking at where I live, what I drive, and how I dress.

It was easy with my wife. Even though I was the breadwinner, we raised kids together, made financial decisions and sacrifices together, and it was easy to imagine spending down our savings together. Imagining that with someone else is extremely difficult!
 
I'm a much older than you widower (81) and did the same (cared for my wife for years on her deathbed). I don't plan on another committed relationship as it may be too late for that, and I haven't looked very hard for a partner, anyway.

At your age, it's better if you stay uncommitted, especially if you are well off. To find someone to commit with and share things would be very complicated and still may not end up like you planned. Your children should come first in your new life. You can still have fun, date, etc, but teaming up and blending assets will be very tricky to do and have risks.
 
If you definitely wouldn’t feel comfortable supporting a partner and/or her kids, it’s probably best if you casually date and stay single. I think it’s also best to share your position with anyone you’re dating in case they are hoping for an eventual marriage/partnership. Your feelings are totally understandable, and there are likely many women of means who feel the same way.
 
Does it change anything as long as you both agree to keep finances separately? If my spouse goes before I do, I do not intend to have another romantic partner, but if I do, it would be with someone who is similarly positioned financially.
 
I suppose if you want a friend who happens to be the opposite sex, you're headed in the right direction.

If you want something approaching a partnership (aka marriage or cohabitation) then the relative financial status of the two people would typically not be at issue - though that's probably old fashioned thinking on my part.

I married DW when she was a store clerk and I was a professional scientist. I out earned her by 4X. It didn't occur to me that the financial differences between us was a barrier to marriage. over 55 years later, I still have significantly more financial resources than she does. I've never felt that she was taking advantage of me - well, maybe making me clean the gutters by myself back when we owned a home together. :cool:

Please excuse me if I'm simply not on your wavelength on this. I hope I don't come across as judgmental. I'm just sharing how I view relationship/partnership.

My best buddy and I went "dutch treat" on things (though I probably picked up more restaurant tickets and gas fill-ups than he did). DW and I don't even consider such things. Our finances are basically pooled and she will inherit everything I own.
 
Koolau said:
I suppose if you want a friend who happens to be the opposite sex, you're headed in the right direction.

If you want something approaching a partnership (aka marriage or cohabitation) then the relative financial status of the two people would typically not be at issue - though that's probably old fashioned thinking on my part.

I married DW when she was a store clerk and I was a professional scientist. I out earned her by 4X. It didn't occur to me that the financial differences between us was a barrier to marriage. over 55 years later, I still have significantly more financial resources than she does. I've never felt that she was taking advantage of me - well, maybe making me clean the gutters by myself back when we owned a home together. :cool:

Please excuse me if I'm simply not on your wavelength on this. I hope I don't come across as judgmental. I'm just sharing how I view relationship/partnership.

My best buddy and I went "dutch treat" on things (though I probably picked up more restaurant tickets and gas fill-ups than he did). DW and I don't even consider such things. Our finances are basically pooled and she will inherit everything I own.
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I think OP's issues is that there are children involved, OP wants to keep his wealth for his children and not share with a new partner's children. It is understandable. Perhaps a pre-nup and trust/will will take care of the division of assets.
 
Koolau said:
I suppose if you want a friend who happens to be the opposite sex, you're headed in the right direction.

If you want something approaching a partnership (aka marriage or cohabitation) then the relative financial status of the two people would typically not be at issue - though that's probably old fashioned thinking on my part.

I married DW when she was a store clerk and I was a professional scientist. I out earned her by 4X. It didn't occur to me that the financial differences between us was a barrier to marriage. over 55 years later, I still have significantly more financial resources than she does. I've never felt that she was taking advantage of me - well, maybe making me clean the gutters by myself back when we owned a home together. :cool:

Please excuse me if I'm simply not on your wavelength on this. I hope I don't come across as judgmental. I'm just sharing how I view relationship/partnership.

My best buddy and I went "dutch treat" on things (though I probably picked up more restaurant tickets and gas fill-ups than he did). DW and I don't even consider such things. Our finances are basically pooled and she will inherit everything I own.
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Great story, but not much help to him as he is much older with children looking for advice at that stage of the game.

I remarried at 52 to a woman with three grown children (I had two myself) and we were both nearly broke at that time (freshly divorced, lousy jobs). We made it for 28 years and had a mixed family, which, at times, was a chore. We decided to leave everything (house, investments, etc) to each other if one of us died first. And that happened. When I pass, my daughter gets what's left, her kids, nothing planned. They are all adults now and we helped all of them out financially many times during the years. Everyone was in agreement on that years ago.
 
Koolau said:
I married DW when she was a store clerk and I was a professional scientist.
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I understand your feelings but you need to keep a time perspective in mind. You and your DW were kids and just starting out. OP is a senior looking for happiness on his own terms during the 2nd half of life. It's really not a valid comparison although I certainly agree with your beginnings as DW and I started similarly. But, in OP's situation, I'd keep the relationship one of "dating with commitment and loyalty."
 
Koolau said:
I suppose if you want a friend who happens to be the opposite sex, you're headed in the right direction.

If you want something approaching a partnership (aka marriage or cohabitation) then the relative financial status of the two people would typically not be at issue - though that's probably old fashioned thinking on my part.

I married DW when she was a store clerk and I was a professional scientist. I out earned her by 4X. It didn't occur to me that the financial differences between us was a barrier to marriage. over 55 years later, I still have significantly more financial resources than she does. I've never felt that she was taking advantage of me - well, maybe making me clean the gutters by myself back when we owned a home together. :cool:

Please excuse me if I'm simply not on your wavelength on this. I hope I don't come across as judgmental. I'm just sharing how I view relationship/partnership.

My best buddy and I went "dutch treat" on things (though I probably picked up more restaurant tickets and gas fill-ups than he did). DW and I don't even consider such things. Our finances are basically pooled and she will inherit everything I own.
Click to expand...
You married and built a life together. What you earned relative to her is irrelevant. That’s very different from meeting someone later in life. Personally, I would not marry someone whose financial situation isn’t similar to mine. What I worked and built with my husband is for us and our children. I wouldn’t feel comfortable supporting another person on what we’ve built together.
 
RetiredHappy said:
I think OP's issues is that there are children involved, OP wants to keep his wealth for his children and not share with a new partner's children. It is understandable. Perhaps a pre-nup and trust/will will take care of the division of assets.
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That can be handled through a will/trust.
 
I could have written this, almost word-for-word. Wife of 30 years dies of cancer, leaving behind 2 pre-teen kids (we were married 17 years before the first was born). I left my job a year later. I am saddened even now when I think about the plans we had for this stage of our lives, and she's been gone 11 years.

Remarried 5 years ago. Similar NW disparity as the OP, we each had two kids, mine under twenty, hers over 30. I supported her, she quit her job, but what was mine stayed mine and she would have a comfortable stipend for the rest of her life if I died before her. What was left after that would go to my kids. My kids got the blessings of the efforts of their mother and me - college paid for, help with IRAs, cars, etc. I did similar for the new wife, but not her adult children. I was thinking the second marriage would a plug-and-play, just picking up where it ended with the late wife. Looked promising for a while, but didn't end up that way. And I am much wiser for the experience.

That one failed after just a few years for several reasons, and our respective commitments to our kids was a factor. And her desire to go back to work full-time concurrent with my child-rearing winding down was a pretty big change in my original thinking. I ultimately adapted to that, but it didn't matter as she ended the marriage.

After that experience, I won't be "taking anyone in" again. And with my youngest having recently left home, I don't want a relationship tied to a work or school schedule. Any future long-term relationship will be with someone of sufficient means to support themselves comfortably, in their own house.

OP - I wonder if there are issues/concerns beyond finances. It's clear she lived her life much differently than you. I've been involved with a few divorced women in the past 10 years and every one of them initially described the end of their marriages in ways favorable to them. However, the casual stories they later shared about their married lives unwittingly showed a different side. I'm sure guys do it too, but if you're widowed after a long marriage there are no questions like that.

It appears you can see the potential paths for this relationship, and from afar it's not clear to me any of them ultimately end up where I think you want to be. And is this how you want to spend the next 8 years until she does (maybe) retire?

Not clear to me what the benefit would be to share info on your finances. It should be obvious to her you have "some money". What do you hope/expect would change if you disclosed more?

You're asking the right questions. If you decide to take the medicine and move on, it won't be easy, so do it sooner than later. Good luck with the decision.
 
Bobloblaw said:
So, I know it's highly unlikely I'd find someone in my financial situation that checks all the other boxes. I don't see us moving in together anytime soon for multiple reasons. But I also wonder going forward does our relationship make sense? I am not willing, at this time, to sign up to support her or anyone (other than my kids) financially. ...
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Your situation prompts much reflection, both personal and abstract. First, much gratitude for sharing relationship/dating travails for Gen-X. Nearly everything that I read here seems to be about and among folks well into the senior citizen group, who face, to put it bluntly, a different predicament.

Second, also gratitude for noting that the "penalty" for a lifetime of vigorous savings is loss of peer group. By this I mean that affluent people - in terms of net worth - tend to be high earners... while those of us, of modest earnings, are rarely affluent.

Consider three people: Andy, Bob and Carl. Andy has $10M but only earns $50K/year. Bob also has $10M, but earns $800K/year. Carl earns the same $50K/year as Andy, but has a net worth of $0. Andy is stuck. He can't relate to Bob, in terms of lifestyle, ambitions, consumption patterns, social standing and so on. But if Carl learns how much money Andy actually has, there goes their friendship, for Carl would regard Andy as some mendacious pretender.

This Andy-Bob-Carl story is just among guys playing golf etc. It gets so vastly harder, in romantic relationships, which are literally and figuratively more intimate. I have zero advice, but can definitely commiserate... no kids here, but am of similar age to you. Girlfriend is substantially younger, earns more, but her pecuniary wherewithal can't be compared. Tension pervades.
 
I'm wondering if you can look past her & see the additional relationship with her kids, eventually. I married DW when she was 32 with her DD being 11. I really became close with DD and now we have 2 DGK's with her & they're all "mine too"... Even if we had another kiddo, I'd view her as a friend & daughter I'd do anything for.

Maybe you would gain more great friends through her family and would like to share what you have with your friends and your family.
 
Personally I would just keep dating her and not get married to her. I think the points you bring up especially more so with your support of your children vs her children in a marriage situation could lead to issues from her end.
On a more of a secondary basis, if you are a travel type guy, her working and you being retired could cause some issues down the road too with some trips requiring longer time frames that she won't have the ability to take off.
 
The late W2R frequently commented that although she and "Frank" had a wonderful relationship, she would not marry him and they were happy keeping separate homes (and presumably separate finances). If OP's relationship was to go to the next step of living together or marriage, they could still keep separate finances while pooling common living expenses. Or, of course, a pre-nup.
 
I remarried at age 50, 6 years after my divorce. He was 65 with two adult children. I was making twice what he was and he had very little saved after years of propping up others (daughter had serious asthma as a child in the years before inhalers and spent a lot of time in hospitals with huge out-of-pocket expenses, took in his elderly mother in her last years, previous long-term relationship with a woman who was a social worker, so underpaid, and financially clueless). It was a good marriage. He had modest tastes and we both loved travel. All of the assets I brought into the marriage and from my earnings remained in my name. When we moved halfway across the country for my job he retired and started collecting SS and handed over the $100K proceeds form selling his house to me and told me to put it in my name- he didn't want to bother with investment decisions. He died in 2016. Kids did not come around looking for money and I was left with plenty to fund my own retirement.

So yes, it can work when the finances are uneven if you're both on the same page financially and there are no needy/greedy kids.

But now I'm 72. I've been in a long-term relationship with a good guy- smart, kind, supportive, trustworthy- but he's a financial mess. He struggles with credit card debt but still buys stuff he doesn't need. Fortunately he does NOT try to make his financial problems my problems (ex-husband did that) but it does limit what we do. We alternate picking up the check at our favorite Mexican restaurant. We've done road trips to places we both like where I pick up the hotel bill and he pays for whatever he's comfortable with. I take expensive international trips twice a year and they're out of his price range. He wouldn't consider me paying his way and I'm not inclined to, anyway.

So, I'm in W2R's camp, may she rest in peace. Isn't she the one whose sig line was, "I want a man in my life but not in my house"? Perfect.
 
If she ticks all the boxes other than financial I wouldn't fret about it. Presumably, with what she has she can contribute the excess of what two of you would spend over what you would spend on your own, or at least close. And then there is the joy being retired together would add vs the status quo or being alone. At the end of the day, it's only money.
 
I'm in a committed second time around after DW passed in 2019. We have lived together for 4 years now and enjoy each other's company. We have talked of marriage and I bought her a ring, but neither of us are really ready to go that route. She has almost the same net worth as me and financial considerations are not even a discussion. I have 4 kids and she has none. Inheritance is set up for my kids, and she is leaving to siblings and nieces/nephews. It has all worked out great for us. Life is too short not to enjoy another's company in travel and social circles.
 
Bobloblaw said:
She was a single mom of 3 with full custody.

I am not willing, at this time, to sign up to support her or anyone (other than my kids) financially.......... And, I can afford to gift my kids and subsidize their lives, while she would not in retirement...........For example, I could take my kids on fairly nice vacations, help them buy homes, etc. She could not for hers and I don't want to take financial care of anyone else's kids.
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I edited your post to what I thought are the key elements.

She's a single mom who struggled through those years successfully but paid the price of a low/no savings rate. A tip of my hat to her for making it through that! But the imprint of that experience on her mind and life outlook will likely always be with her.

If you were married and had even done whatever you needed to do legally to keep your funds as your funds, you'd still have the issue of her reaction to you gifting your kids and not hers. If one of her kids is struggling financially and you gift your kids new cars for their birthdays, how will that sit? Etc.

Your feelings about not wanting to support folks other than your own kids and her life background as a single mom could lead to some head bumping in the future. I'd think that through carefully.
 
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GF makes 3x what I do. I have 3 or 4 times her net worth.

I've dated broke women and I've dated high earners. Doesn't really matter how much money they have. I'm not marrying them or letting them move in either way. As long as they can pay their half, we can continue interactions. If they don't have two nickels to rub together, I eat before they come by.

A women's finances is irrelevant to me. Her being kind and treating me good is.
 
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