Relationship as a FIREd widower

[Diogenes]

...Doesn't really matter how much money they have. I'm not marrying them or letting them move in either way. As long as they can pay their half, we can continue interactions. If they don't have two nickels to rub together, I eat before they come by.

A women's finances is irrelevant to me. Her being kind and treating me good is.

But with all due respect, isn't there a contradiction? If the woman lacks "two nickels to rub together", and consequently you "eat before [she] come by", while presumably if she's of adequate pecuniary means, the two of you would dine together... then would it be not be the case, that her finances are of some relevance, after all?

We can of course be gracious and accommodating of the other person's financial situation, act with magnanimity, be slow to judge and quick to forgive, etc... and likely we should. Nevertheless, isn't there an obtrusive feeling, that if I was diligent and saved and invested etc., and she didn't, then there's a sense of inequality, where the one partner "deserves" more, for making better decisions? It takes effort to fight this feeling... at least it does, for me. Isn't this akin to how a lifelong investor might feel about capital gains taxes and crashing-out of ACA subsidy eligibility, while other folks, who maybe earned more but saved little, now pay next to zero tax, and get all sorts of benefits?

 

[Scuba]

Clearly this is a personal decision. Some are fine with sharing everything they’ve accumulated with a less financially secure partner, and some are not.

DH and I find that we are most comfortable spending a lot of time with people with similar spending habits and values, regardless of wealth level.

 

[rodi]

After my mom died, my dad met someone new. Technically they never married, but did become "registered domestic partners" after they moved in together.

Dad had more assets. Stepmom (because that's the relationship she and I developed, even though I was in my 40's when Dad met her), had some assets, far from destitute... but not on the scale of dad. Dad had 3 kids, Stepmom had 5 kids.

They updated their trusts/wills when they moved in. The trusts made sure that her assets went 100% to her kids, Dad's assets went to his kids. There were small concessions - they were living in her house - and her trust required it not be sold, Dad evicted, for 2 years after her death. Dad's trust gave a lump sum to her, to make sure she had funds to make some planned improvements on her house.

Dad died 15 years before stepmom. As an adult offspring - I chose to maintain relationships with stepmom and her kids. Just part of an extended family. I joked to her, at the time of Dad's death, that she didn't get rid of us that easily... by that point she was in grandmom role to my son's... and Dad had picked an exceptional person to fall in love with late in life.

As for spending when they were both alive and living together: Dad didn't pay rent (her house) but paid for many big ticket repairs (new roof, new HVAC, etc). He also paid the larger portion on their extensive travel - she paid some, but he paid probably 75% of the cost for their travel. She continued to help her kids. Dad continued to help us. But their nest eggs were never commingled.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

But with all due respect, isn't there a contradiction? If the woman lacks "two nickels to rub together", and consequently you "eat before [she] come by", while presumably if she's of adequate pecuniary means, the two of you would dine together... then would it be not be the case, that her finances are of some relevance, after all?

We can of course be gracious and accommodating of the other person's financial situation, act with magnanimity, be slow to judge and quick to forgive, etc... and likely we should. Nevertheless, isn't there an obtrusive feeling, that if I was diligent and saved and invested etc., and she didn't, then there's a sense of inequality, where the one partner "deserves" more, for making better decisions? It takes effort to fight this feeling... at least it does, for me. Isn't this akin to how a lifelong investor might feel about capital gains taxes and crashing-out of ACA subsidy eligibility, while other folks, who maybe earned more but saved little, now pay next to zero tax, and get all sorts of benefits?

If she doesn't have 2 nickels, she needs to figure out how to get more nickels. They just won't be my nickels.

The point is what a woman earns or what $ she has in the bank is unimportant to me. I've dated from Dr.'s to the unemployed. The ones with less cash generally are more pleasant to be around.

If I was the OP it wouldn't matter to me what the financial condition was of the young lady. If she's pleasant continue to see her. If she becomes unpleasant then it's time to move on.

 

[pb4uski]

... I'm not in this situation and can't offer advice.

That didn't stop me from offering advice.

 

[Souschef]

My wife passed away after having cancer. I kept w*rking for lack of anything else to do. I met my present wife at a grief recovery website.
I retired shortly after we got married and we traveled extensively.
We each have 2 adult sons, and they are treated equally.
My NW is about 5X hers, and we keep our finances separate.
We will be celebrating our 18th anniversary this year.
Life is good!

 

[Chuckanut]

IMO, the key is that neither person is financially dependent on the other.

 

[RetiredHappy]

One more thought is that if she is in the top 5% earning group, she is making $300K a year. I don't see how she won't be able to catch up on saving for her retirement plus some.

 

[FlaGator]

If she ticks all the boxes other than financial I wouldn't fret about it. Presumably, with what she has she can contribute the excess of what two of you would spend over what you would spend on your own, or at least close. And then there is the joy being retired together would add vs the status quo or being alone. At the end of the day, it's only money.

And that's the decision I made several years ago, and her immediate "early retirement" on my encouragement and financial backing didn't work out after a few years. Sample of one.

OP is looking at an 8 year wait before being retired together. Maybe that could have worked for me when I was still raising kids. It's a different calculation today, and I won't be hanging around looking at someone's PTO schedule until I'm 73 (and the OP would be early 60's).

 

[FlaGator]

Not intending to hijack the thread, but that may be what I'm doing....

A factor for me in the second marriage was to find the kind of relationship I once had but ended early. I knew it wouldn't be the same, but hoped for a "reasonable facsimile" that could last until a natural end. When it fell apart after a few years, I realized I was naive, and that the first one had been built over time through shared experiences which were unlikely to be replicated a second time. And that relationship was the *third time* I had sought to develop something like I once enjoyed. Third time wasn't the charm I expected, maybe it took 3 failures to see the light.

There are examples here of successful, long-lasting 2nd marriages/relationships, Aja, Souschef and W2R come to mind, and it's going well for VanWinkle, Surewhitey and likely others. So, there is a way to have that again

I'm in a "situationship" now with a lady several years older. Educated, hardworking (and still working), but opposite priorities about money and lifestyle. Also the most honest woman I've met in the last 10 years. No way I could live with her though - daily habits are too different, and I couldn't bridge that with wife #2. And I am likely to survive her by several years. Do I bail and sacrifice the next several years looking for someone closer to my age and "a better fit"? I haven't answered that question yet but am asking myself. Tough choices when you find yourself single in your 60's.

Another bit of advice to the OP - be as clear as you can with yourself about your motivations and expectations for this relationship. Test yourself about what you want, quiz your close friends hard about how they see you and what they think you need and will make you happy.

Thanks for the counseling session and lectern

 

[Teacher Terry]

Continue to live separately and enjoy your relationship. If you want to have a travel partner and won’t feel resentful pay for the vacations.

 

[Koolau]

That didn't stop me from offering advice.

Right. I thought that's what we were supposed to do!

 

[ponyboy]

Continue to live separately and enjoy your relationship. If you want to have a travel partner and won’t feel resentful pay for the vacations.

Pretty much this. You never have to get married. If things are good now why change anything? Spend some of your moldy money on vacations/dining and enjoy life.

 

[Bobloblaw]

OP Here.

Wow! I didn't login yesterday so didn't get to see so many thoughtful and honest replies! There is tons of wisdom and experience to sift through and ponder. I will need to spend some time re-reading the responses and following up with my own questions. But, I appreciate the thought-provoking dialog! It's more valuable than the $225/hr therapist I saw last year for a bit.

 

[Kings over Queens]

That didn't stop me from offering advice.

Right. I thought that's what we were supposed to do!

Can't, because I have none to give. I'm just grateful for the thread and discussion because this isn't something I'd considered.

 

[pb4uski]

Continue to live separately and enjoy your relationship. If you want to have a travel partner and won’t feel resentful pay for the vacations.

I know a couple who lived together for many years, split (she kicked him out of her home) and are now back together socially but living separately. I suspect it is one of those things where they enjoy each other's companionship but know that living together isn't good for them. The live ~200 yards away from each other.

 

[pacergal]

One more thought is that if she is in the top 5% earning group, she is making $300K a year. I don't see how she won't be able to catch up on saving for her retirement plus some.

And, possibly you could help her/offer assistance/education if she desires. She may be able to catch up quickly if she has a LBYM mentality. Although, as a single mom when she was younger, she may be more ready to BTD if she can and has the $.

Perhaps you keep finances separate, but contribute on a % basis towards mutual expenses, based on monthly income or whatever you choose.
I would not divulge full financial picture, unless you were to the point of, or close to, marriage.

As far as gifting your kids, there is no reason for her or her kids to be aware of that, is there? You can write a check or transfer money to them without anybody else knowing. That is your private business.
And, if it were me, I would definitely have a trust to make sure my kids got any of my money/investments when I died.

 

[youbet]

As far as gifting your kids, there is no reason for her or her kids to be aware of that, is there?

I think that would be much easier said than done as the years go by.

 

[Amethyst]

OP Here.

Wow! I didn't login yesterday so didn't get to see so many thoughtful and honest replies! There is tons of wisdom and experience to sift through and ponder. I will need to spend some time re-reading the responses and following up with my own questions. But, I appreciate the thought-provoking dialog! It's more valuable than the $225/hr therapist I saw last year for a bit.

It took years before I realized that I've always been my own therapist, lol. But I also read advice columns, and pay attention to the people on this forum, whose experiences are different from mine. Also, and this is just me, I find that talking to God helps flush out lies I may have been telling myself.

 

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

It's not about net worth differences, it's about personal lifestyle differences. Only you can decide.

My DW and I worked our butts off for decades to get ahead. After she died, I became the steward for my family's future. We had a special needs child, now adult, who will need full time life time care. His care will require millions. Yes, he qualifies for assistance and was placed in a special needs group home while his mom was dying so I could attend to her needs. He ended up not having his basic needs met, getting abused and neglected. When I raised concerns, the group home discharged him. He has been living with me ever since. They stole the money we had given them to secure a lifetime spot there. The authorities don't care or look the other way as this same place is still in operation and doing the same things to other unfortunate families.

I'm not the same person I was before my wife died. I evolved into someone completely different. I've lost trust in my fellow man and institutions as a result, yet have to plan for potentially five or six decades of life my son may have left. No, it is not an easy feat. 'Helpers' are available to primarily help themselves first.

I met a widow some time later. It was not meant to be. Over time it became apparent that she was dealing with grief (if at all) through expensive forms of escapism. I wasn't going to become a sugar daddy for someone else's lifestyle who wasn't there beside me during those hard years working for the common good and who has no understanding of the value of a dollar. I changed from what I once was. Much of this was hastened during the Coronavirus/Covid pandemic. What was important, interested or appealed to me in the past no longer does.

Having come from the restless modern urban lifestyle to living a more serene monasticism, I prefer the quieter minimalist lifestyle surrounded by nature. It's enough.

My grandfather remained a widower after my grandma died at a young age between the World Wars. My dad remained a widower for the rest of his life after my mom died. He had a few girlfriends over the years but preferred solitude. Only now am I finally 'getting it.'

I guess I'm going down that same path and have come to accept it. I will probably end up like the actor Hackman someday - only in this case more like his wife.

That said, here is a quote from Raymond Teller: "Nothing fools you better than the lies you tell yourself."

 

[ychuck46]

That can be handled through a will/trust.

Agreed. My wife and I have a revocable living trust that gives everything to the surviving spouse, and after the death of the surviving spouse then all goes to our only child. She and her husband have no children so what happens after them is not my concern.

My wife has told me that if she goes first I can play around all I want, but not to get married. My daughter would not want the hassle and DW has said she would come back and haunt me if I ever complicated things with another marriage. I told her not to worry. Had a lot of fun in my single years and a long marriage (currently coming up on our 46th anniversary) so the need to have another woman permanently would likely not be very pressing. To each their own.

 

[KarenF]

If my husband goes before me I will not remarry and finances will be separate. I think subsidizing some travel would be fine. My father in law (92) has a partner in her 80s. They live together and have a written agreement about expenses. They have separate expenses. It works well.

 

[aja8888]

Agreed. My wife and I have a revocable living trust that gives everything to the surviving spouse, and after the death of the surviving spouse then all goes to our only child. She and her husband have no children so what happens after them is not my concern.

My wife has told me that if she goes first I can play around all I want, but not to get married. My daughter would not want the hassle and DW has said she would come back and haunt me if I ever complicated things with another marriage. I told her not to worry. Had a lot of fun in my single years and a long marriage (currently coming up on our 46th anniversary) so the need to have another woman permanently would likely not be very pressing. To each their own.

My bold above....she really said that?

Anyway, like TB above, he is correct in saying: I'm not the same person I was before my wife died.
(I'm not either and that's what happens when you become a widower.)

 

[Koolau]

It's not about net worth differences, it's about personal lifestyle differences. Only you can decide.

My DW and I worked our butts off for decades to get ahead. After she died, I became the steward for my family's future. We had a special needs child, now adult, who will need full time life time care. His care will require millions. Yes, he qualifies for assistance and was placed in a special needs group home while his mom was dying so I could attend to her needs. He ended up not having his basic needs met, getting abused and neglected. When I raised concerns, the group home discharged him. He has been living with me ever since. They stole the money we had given them to secure a lifetime spot there. The authorities don't care or look the other way as this same place is still in operation and doing the same things to other unfortunate families.

I'm not the same person I was before my wife died. I evolved into someone completely different. I've lost trust in my fellow man and institutions as a result, yet have to plan for potentially five or six decades of life my son may have left. No, it is not an easy feat. 'Helpers' are available to primarily help themselves first.

I met a widow some time later. It was not meant to be. Over time it became apparent that she was dealing with grief (if at all) through expensive forms of escapism. I wasn't going to become a sugar daddy for someone else's lifestyle who wasn't there beside me during those hard years working for the common good and who has no understanding of the value of a dollar. I changed from what I once was. Much of this was hastened during the Coronavirus/Covid pandemic. What was important, interested or appealed to me in the past no longer does.

Having come from the restless modern urban lifestyle to living a more serene monasticism, I prefer the quieter minimalist lifestyle surrounded by nature. It's enough.

My grandfather remained a widower after my grandma died at a young age between the World Wars. My dad remained a widower for the rest of his life after my mom died. He had a few girlfriends over the years but preferred solitude. Only now am I finally 'getting it.'

I guess I'm going down that same path and have come to accept it. I will probably end up like the actor Hackman someday - only in this case more like his wife.

That said, here is a quote from Raymond Teller: "Nothing fools you better than the lies you tell yourself."

Yours is a very touching story. I'm sorry life has given you such a challenge. My DW found a group home for her special needs brother even before their mother passed. It wasn't perfect but it was adequate. It was operated by the county or state (I don't recall which.) The cost was covered by taxes and her brother's meager Social Security disability.

Her brother passed some years ago due to the condition that rendered him incapable of living on his own.

There ARE places that can help. I'm sure you have looked and been disappointed so far. But don't give up and don't give up on your fellow man or your higher power if any. Blessings to you.

 

[ocean view]

My FIL is in a situation similar to the OP. He was widowed after 40 years of marriage. He and his companion have been together for 25 years now. She is divorced with grown kids, including a special needs son who lives with her and she supports. She has some savings, but not the same level of wealth as my FIL.

They never joined households or finances, although I have heard that FIL has left her a sum of money in his will. She rarely joins our family for meals or special occasions, but he frequently takes her family out to dinner. I have never seen her pay or even offer to pay for anything in 25 years, in fact she frequently just doesn’t even carry her wallet. “Oh Frank, can you buy this for me? I didn’t bring my wallet.” I don’t know if it was always this way, but presently he is her Sugar Daddy and she is taking full advantage of it and it bugs his family.

I’ve discussed this at length with my SIL, his daughter, and we both acknowledge that it’s his money and he can do with it what he pleases, but her lack of appreciation for his generosity is appalling. She’s also not very kind to him, which is difficult for us to watch. We just have to hold our tongues. She seems to make him happy…

So to the OP my advice is do what makes you happy, and if that means picking up the tab more often or not, so be it. But keep your eyes open for signs that you are being used for your bank balance and decide if what you’re getting from the relationship is worth it or not.