Replacement water heater advice?

[pb4uski]

I simply do not believe those numbers. ...

And why am I surprised?

 

[ERD50]

This just happened to us for the second time - no fun at all. Entire first floor flooded. I don't understand why a shut off can't be part of the water heater itself.

They are available - a sensor and a valve. Not cheap, IIRC, a couple hundred $?

 

[ERD50]

And why am I surprised?

Well, check my logic on the 2X usage, rather than trusting an auto generated AI response. I know my water heater will not lose anywhere near a 70F delta in a day. What is your experience?

I have company coming, so may not have time to find other numbers today, but a 2x savings is way out of line with what I've seen before.

 

[freedomatlast]

Not sure what a "loud glugging noise" is, but I'm not sure how a noise would indicate impending tank failure. If there's an expansion tank there, an expansion tank that has lost its air is more likely the cause of the noise. Also, I'm not sure how sediment buildup would cause a "loud glugging noise," but it that's your concern, just flush it out using the valve on the bottom of it. My last Bradford White gas fired water heater has lasted 22 years and is still going strong, so personally I wouldn't replace a 12 year old one strictly because of age. Maybe drain it, flushing all the sediment out of it and then put a pan underneath before you refill it so you can see when leakage starts before it runs on the floor. Like most things, the newer ones don't seem as well built as the older ones.

 

[Ian S]

Our Bradford White 50 gallon gas-fired water heater is 12 years old and is making loud glugging noises occasionally. I suspect there is a lot of sediment built up and I'm ready to replace it, although it has been trouble-free for 12 years. I don't want to wake up one morning to water all over the place and no hot water; I'd rather be proactive and there is money in this year's budget for this.

We replaced our Bradford White 50 gallon water heater last fall for the same reason as you except ours was 20 years old! Because it is in a closet in our finished basement, a leak would be a very costly problem. One thing we learned is that newer tank heaters have even more insulation than ever and that means a new 50 gallon water heater is likely to be substantially larger physically to accommodate more insulation. Ours certainly was and the new Rheem was a tight fit in the closet! We probably could have made do with a 40 gallon instead. I agree with others that the more expensive models have longer warranties so that's built into the price. Also, like our new one, they may have leds that light up depending on if power is being used and which element is turned on. Not sure how useful that feature is. One thing we've done is install a moisture sensor in the pan under the water heater as an early warning leak detector. We have several of those in potential leak areas as well as temperature sensors in our kitchen refrigerator/freezer and garage freezer to alert us if/when there's a failure. The system we use is made by Yolink and available on Amazon.

We got several estimates and went with Ben Franklin Plumbing, a franchise outfit. We got a nice discount via their military veterans' program so if you have one in your area, it might be worth checking out to see if that discount applies/is available.

 

[Walt34]

The gurgling noise is probably because of the sediment build up that all water heaters get. Since you've never drained/flushed it, if it has a plastic drain valve have a spare BRASS valve on hand if you do flush it. Also have the tools needed to get the plastic valve out and replace it with the brass one. The plastic valve may not shut off or seal after you open it. Just hook up a garden hose and drain ten gallons or so, preferably into a bucket (let the bucket overflow into a sink if available or outside if not) and be prepared to be amazed at the amount of debris when you're done.

Also get a replacement anode rod. These are cheap, about $20-$35 depending on size and type. You will need a 1 1/16 inch socket wrench to get the old one out and preferably an impact wrench to loosen the old one. It can be done with a regular socket wrench but you'll likely need a couple of strong assistants to hold the tank still while you yank on the wrench handle. Trust me, the impact wrench (about $70 at Harbor Freight) is easier.

Replace the anode rod after you've drained ten gallons or so from the water heater so the water doesn't make a mess on the floor when it drains from the upstairs pipes. After 12 years it's almost certain to need a new one. There are lots of youtube videos on how to do it, it's a simple job but time consuming.

 

[Gallaher]

No one mentioned heat-pump water heaters. Ten to fifteen years ago they were kind of making a rumble on the market.
Did they never pan out?

 

[Flieger]

I have a tankless gas hot water heater that I love. Yes, if power is out, so is the hot water heater, but it is control voltage only, so I have a 2000W Honda generator that keeps the refrigerator/freezer and tv going, and it will keep the hot water heater controls going as well!

Flieger

 

[jrgators]

Our AO Smith water heater was doing the same thing after 17 years so we replaced it with the closet model and have had no problems so far.

 

[Turbo29]

I simply do not believe those numbers. I'll find some other sources later, but your source indicates the tankless uses 38% of the energy, or stated the other way, the tank uses over 2.5x the energy.

The laws of physics - in either case, you must raise the water from tap ( ~ 60F?) to ~ 130F, a 70F delta. That's where the energy and cost comes into play, and is equal for both (actually, the tank has a slight advantage with its slow/steady rise). An electric tank heater is well insulated and just doesn't lose much heat.

Simple numbers - if the tank took 2x the energy, it must be losing an equal amount while standing. So if you use 50 G of hot water a day (and therefore heat that much to a 70F delta), a 50 G tank would also need to loose that much over a day. And anyone who has a tank water heater will tell you it only loses a couple degrees a day. No where near 70F a day.

I've turned mine OFF when we went on a long w/e away, and the water was still over 90F when I returned. And that's a gas unit, which has more loss through the chimney than an electric, which can be totally insulated.

I agree with you. Perplexity is hallucinating. It is comparing a 50 gallon electric tank heater to a 200,000 BTU gas tankless heater

 

[ERD50]

I agree with you. Perplexity is hallucinating. It is comparing a 50 gallon electric tank heater to a 200,000 BTU gas tankless heater

Ahhh, the old apples-oranges comparison. That makes more sense. Since natural gas connections are common here, that's the norm as it is much cheaper than electric water heating (using the same technology). A 2.5x delta in cost, gas-electric, would not surprise me.

Perplexity appears to be perplexed! Like in the other threads on AI, it's a tool, gotta give a sanity check to the results.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

I think you are mistaken.

The leak from a water heater is not limited to the amount of water it holds. Either type is connected to the main supply, and will keep leaking until your municipal water supply or your well runs dry!

It goes without saying that anything connected to your water pipes CAN leak.

However, hot water tanks ARE the most likely things to fail first and when they do they typically fail by leaking.

Further, if I go away on vacation for a week or two, I can just shut off the water main (in either tank or tankless systems). But if I have a water tank there's still a full tank of water that can leak while I'm away (even though the water supply is shut off).

 

[Sunset]

This just happened to us for the second time - no fun at all. Entire first floor flooded. I don't understand why a shut off can't be part of the water heater itself.

Put a water leak alarm by your water heater, they even have them now that set a text message to your phone, and always turn off your water when you go on trips.

They also sell a large round metal dish that has a hose connected to it, so if water heater leaks the water will drain out the hose, which goes to a drain.

 

[38Chevy454]

I'm pretty sure code now requires a drain pan under tank water heaters.

 

[pb4uski]

Well, check my logic on the 2X usage, rather than trusting an auto generated AI response. I know my water heater will not lose anywhere near a 70F delta in a day. What is your experience?

I have company coming, so may not have time to find other numbers today, but a 2x savings is way out of line with what I've seen before.

After additional research I agree, not 2x savings, but the tankless is still lower operating cost than tank by a substantial amount (more than 10%).

In that prior post i didn't pick up that Perplexity was comparing an electric tank water heater to a gas tankless water heater rather then comparing a gas tank water heater to a gas tankless water heater.

 

[ERD50]

.... Further, if I go away on vacation for a week or two, I can just shut off the water main (in either tank or tankless systems). But if I have a water tank there's still a full tank of water that can leak while I'm away (even though the water supply is shut off).

OK, that part makes sense - *if* you shut off the supply, the water heater tank could leak out up to its full amount (~ 50 gallons), and even that depends on where the leak is (if near the top, less total to leak out), and the tank-less would leak much less. But a pretty rare case.

We actually did have a leak develop that I noticed the morning we were leaving for a long w/e. I shut off the water and gas to the tank, laid out towels to help direct any flow to the drain, and had my son-in-law check later that day. The leak was slow, hardly anything, and no damage at all. It's pretty typical for these leaks to start slow, so as long as you check from time to time, it's unlikely to be a big problem. I had a pan installed when replaced, and I set up some water detector probes in the pan, and in the drain, so I'd get an alert if the drain backed up.

 

[surprising]

The gurgling noise is probably because of the sediment build up that all water heaters get. Since you've never drained/flushed it, if it has a plastic drain valve have a spare BRASS valve on hand if you do flush it. Also have the tools needed to get the plastic valve out and replace it with the brass one. The plastic valve may not shut off or seal after you open it. Just hook up a garden hose and drain ten gallons or so, preferably into a bucket (let the bucket overflow into a sink if available or outside if not) and be prepared to be amazed at the amount of debris when you're done.

Also get a replacement anode rod. These are cheap, about $20-$35 depending on size and type. You will need a 1 1/16 inch socket wrench to get the old one out and preferably an impact wrench to loosen the old one. It can be done with a regular socket wrench but you'll likely need a couple of strong assistants to hold the tank still while you yank on the wrench handle. Trust me, the impact wrench (about $70 at Harbor Freight) is easier.

Replace the anode rod after you've drained ten gallons or so from the water heater so the water doesn't make a mess on the floor when it drains from the upstairs pipes. After 12 years it's almost certain to need a new one. There are lots of youtube videos on how to do it, it's a simple job but time consuming.

I've never replaced the anode rod, but I do flush the tank yearly. I've never noticed rust colored water coming out during the flush, only some white crystal substance. I'm sure the anode rod is original, well over 10 years. Is it still a good idea to replace the anode rod?

Also, we've had issues with pressure build up in the tank and occasional scalding water even though the temp is set to the 'Hot' setting, which is pretty low. Everyone has been telling me to get an expansion tank, but I decided to do a deep flush recently, where I drained the tank completely, then repeatedly opened and closed the water valve to try to use the water pressure to break up all the sediment. So much sediment came out during this process, and it took a long time before it started to run clear. Since then, the tank has been running much better- no pressure buildup, and no scalding water.

 

[Gallaher]

I've never replaced the anode rod, but I do flush the tank yearly. I've never noticed rust colored water coming out during the flush, only some white crystal substance. I'm sure the anode rod is original, well over 10 years. Is it still a good idea to replace the anode rod?

Yes, you should change your anode rod. Especially if you have hard water, sounds like you do. The rod is sacrificial to manage galvanic corrosion. The sludge you got when you flushed the tank may be your corroded anode doing its job

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

Yes, you should change your anode rod. Especially if you have hard water, sounds like you do. The rod is sacrificial to manage galvanic corrosion. The sludge you got when you flushed the tank may be your corroded anode doing its job

The problem with replacing the rod is that one might not have the ceiling height to lift it out of the tank. My basement ceiling height is less than 7.5 feet. I don't know how hard it would be to cut through the old rod to take it out in sections. Maybe it could be bend if it were brittle enough.

 

[Gallaher]

The problem with replacing the rod is that one might not have the ceiling height to lift it out of the tank. My basement ceiling height is less than 7.5 feet. I don't know how hard it would be to cut through the old rod to take it out in sections. Maybe it could be bend if it were brittle enough.

I’ve had this exact issue. Sometimes you have to bend the rod to remove. But then how to get a new one in? You may be able to buy a shorter one. You may have to disconnect the water heater to tip and get the new rod in. The anode rod is maybe a foot long.
You don’t want to cut and drop a piece inside the tank.
Bet you can see all this on you tube

 

[Jerry1]

I’ve had this exact issue. Sometimes you have to bend the rod to remove. But then how to get a new one in? You may be able to buy a shorter one. You may have to disconnect the water heater to tip and get the new rod in. The anode rod is maybe a foot long.
You don’t want to cut and drop a piece inside the tank.
Bet you can see all this on you tube

They sell anode rods that are linked, kind of like a sausage, so that you can feed them into the water heater.

 

[sengsational]

Can you just peek at the anode rod and only replace it if it's largely gone? I mean, if it still has a reasonable proportion of it's original surface area, and it's a uniform material throughout, why replace it?

 

[thod]

They sell anode rods that are linked, kind of like a sausage, so that you can feed them into the water heater.

My house had this issue. I just bought this type of anode and it worked like a charm.

 

[FreeBear]

Our Bradford White 50 gallon gas-fired water heater is 12 years old and is making loud glugging noises occasionally. I suspect there is a lot of sediment built up and I'm ready to replace it, although it has been trouble-free for 12 years. I don't want to wake up one morning to water all over the place and no hot water; I'd rather be proactive and there is money in this year's budget for this.

I also looked up what size we need (something I didn't do last time), and given our usage, a 40 gallon tank makes more sense than a 50 gallon.

I called around for some quotes. The installer of our current tank has switched to Rheem Pro series. Another plumber also installs only Rheem Pro series; I'm waiting for the third quote.

What do folks thing of Rheem? I had planned to get another Bradford White, because this one has been trouble free. Is there a reason plumbers seem to be switching to Rheem?

Oh, and I'm not interested in an on-demand or electric water heater. Our area just had a 6-day power outage and it was great to have hot water at least!

I've had contractors replace 4 water heaters in various houses and did most of the plumbing on a 5th one. Sound like you want to replace existing conventional gas water heater with the same. Very straightforward.

I've had AO Smith, GE, Rheem, and Bradford White. No problems with any one except the tanks can leak after anywhere between 8 and 40 years! These conventional gas water heaters are some of the most reliable, trouble free appliances around. I seem to recall that 10 years is a typical life, although they can clearly last longer. Consumer reports says that these are basically commodity appliances so they don't bother publishing reliability scores (in contast to HVAC where they have detailed reliabilty and consumer satisfaction data). Bottom line: you'll be fine with either Bradford White or Rheem. The most important thing is a competent installer and a good price, which is the real challenge.

How much are your quotes running? It can run 2-3 grand. Strongly suggest calling a water heater specialist like Mr Waterheater in Pittsburg (attached). Lots of good Google reviews. Runs around $1000 installed, per their website. Google pictures show both Bradford White and Rheem, all clean installs. I never used these guys, but I used a similar water heater only specialist here in Tucson. I paid $1200, other guys wanted $2200. Price included pulling permit; building inspector said install looked great.

Rheem 40 gal convention gas heaters run about $600 at a big box, plus 2 hours of labor at $150/hr gives you $900 or so. Seems reasonable.

Good luck, it does't have to be complicated!

 

[Koolau]

Have you tried flushing out your current tank? You can flush out all the sediment and prolong the life of your current heater. These things are just simple tanks of water with a heat source so should last a long long time.

I was wondering the same thing. IOW does the gurgling mean an imminent leak? Actually never heard of a water heater with a serious leak - not that it's never happened I suppose.

Waking up to no hot water would be unfortunate, but is it worth replacing a mid-life water heater? The water heater in our mainland apartment has been there for 45 years. Still w*rks just fine. If it gurgles, I can't hear it in the basement. YMMV