Replacement water heater advice?

[NgineER]

No one mentioned heat-pump water heaters. Ten to fifteen years ago they were kind of making a rumble on the market.
Did they never pan out?

They are around, expensive to buy, but saves on heating and also dehumidifies your dungeon (basement). There still are rebates for these water heaters, but I could see them going away...

How to Shop for a Heat Pump Water Heater

We discuss how to know if a new, efficient electric heat pump water heater is right for your home.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Walt34]

Can you just peek at the anode rod and only replace it if it's largely gone?

You can put the old one back in if it's not "consumed" much. In my case, it was only about halfway used up when I inspected it. I replaced it anyway, since the new one from Home Depot was half again longer (and would hopefully last that much longer) than the old one, and at the time I'd only paid $10 for the new anode rod. The replacement for that one was $15, so still not a great expense.

BTW, it you don't have the ceiling clearance to get the old anode rod out, just bend it as it comes out if you can, and if not, use a hacksaw to cut it as needed to lift out the pieces. And if a piece of it drops down into the tank, so what? It'll just rust away anyway and won't hurt anything.

And like Jerry said, they make the replacement rods in "sausage link" lengths to overcome the low ceiling issue. The URL I posted shows some with that design.

 

[ERD50]

No one mentioned heat-pump water heaters. Ten to fifteen years ago they were kind of making a rumble on the market.
Did they never pan out?

Those are cheaper to run than electric heaters, but probably not a major savings over a gas heater.

It will cool the space it's in, which could be a plus or a minus, also depending on the season. My concern is it is essentially a small refrigerator (running in reverse) or a dehumidifier, and with the reliability of appliances like that lately, I'd be concerned about that upfront cost and having it fail after a few years. And the regs keep changing for the refrigerant they can use.

The dehumidifier I bought for the basement in this house died before the end of the second season. Hopefully these heat pump water heaters are better. But they still have the tank issues, and those probably average ~ 12~14 years - so will the heat pump payback?

 

[freedomatlast]

I'd be concerned about that upfront cost and having it fail after a few years. And the regs keep changing for the refrigerant they can use.

Exactly. Any potential electricity savings over a traditional electric water heater just isn't worth the additional mechanical and electrical complexity and the potential failures. And there's little if any energy savings over a gas fired water heater.

 

[meleana]

We like the tankless propane water heater we have except it takes awhile in winter to get the hot water flowing. We don’t have the recirculator pump. Felt it wasn’t worth it.

We have a whole house standby generator so no worries regarding rare power outages.

 

[skyking1]

OP, you asked why the quotes were coming in with Rheem. I would surmise that they are providing a better price point for those particular contractors and nothing more.
I suggest if you do go ahead with the replacement, that you get a smart valve installed at the same time.
It will shut off the whole house water when it detects any abnormal flow that indicates a leak.
Also, get an alarm to put in the pan. I have one and it does give some peace of mind. I also place one under the kitchen sink, as it is another common area to develop a leak.

 

[eniacpalm]

Purchased a Rheem Platinum hybrid water heater in 2018. Initially I researched tankless water heaters, however we don't have natural gas in our area and wasn't happy with propane constantly having to be filled. There are several modes for this water heater and I run mine in heat pump mode only. I have found it is much more cost effective than a standard water heater and have been pleased with performance. Never had an issue with hot water, except of course with loss of power. It's in my downstairs area, added bonus is that it helps cool that area - exhaust from heat pump is cool air.

I kept an eye on energy usage for several years - leary of reported savings.
My original water heater estimated 4990 KWH/per year
Hybrid 1341 KWH/ per year.
Actual (according to Econets app for water heater), runs less than 900 KWH/ per year.
My last report shows 507.14 KWH last 12 months.

 

[Koolau]

Purchased a Rheem Platinum hybrid water heater in 2018. Initially I researched tankless water heaters, however we don't have natural gas in our area and wasn't happy with propane constantly having to be filled. There are several modes for this water heater and I run mine in heat pump mode only. I have found it is much more cost effective than a standard water heater and have been pleased with performance. Never had an issue with hot water, except of course with loss of power. It's in my downstairs area, added bonus is that it helps cool that area - exhaust from heat pump is cool air.

I kept an eye on energy usage for several years - leary of reported savings.
My original water heater estimated 4990 KWH/per year
Hybrid 1341 KWH/ per year.
Actual (according to Econets app for water heater), runs less than 900 KWH/ per year.
My last report shows 507.14 KWH last 12 months.

Are you certain about those numbers? 4990 KWh per year for conventional hot water heater? When we had a conventional (electric) hot water heater, our total electricity usage was about half that for all uses in our condo.

 

[eniacpalm]

Are you certain about those numbers? 4990 KWh per year for conventional hot water heater? When we had a conventional (electric) hot water heater, our total electricity usage was about half that for all uses in our condo.

this was straight off of the sticker on the water heater - 4990 for the original one, 1341 for the hybrid. as indicated, these were the manufacturers estimated use for comparison, not my actual usage. also, this is for a 65 gallon water heater. so, if you compare reported usage for last 12 months vs the estimated usage - 507/1341 =37.8 %, you could infer that the original water heater would have been used (at a minimum, and probably higher ) 1886kwh (4990 * 37,8%).

 

[wolf]

Just had Plumber install 40 gal, natural gas, water heater past Thursday. I think it was a Rheem. 6year warranty.
$ 2118. San Francisco Bay Area. California.

 

[tizod]

I simply do not believe those numbers. I'll find some other sources later, but your source indicates the tankless uses 38% of the energy, or stated the other way, the tank uses over 2.5x the energy.

The laws of physics - in either case, you must raise the water from tap ( ~ 60F?) to ~ 130F, a 70F delta. That's where the energy and cost comes into play, and is equal for both (actually, the tank has a slight advantage with its slow/steady rise). An electric tank heater is well insulated and just doesn't lose much heat.

Simple numbers - if the tank took 2x the energy, it must be losing an equal amount while standing. So if you use 50 G of hot water a day (and therefore heat that much to a 70F delta), a 50 G tank would also need to loose that much over a day. And anyone who has a tank water heater will tell you it only loses a couple degrees a day. No where near 70F a day.

I've turned mine OFF when we went on a long w/e away, and the water was still over 90F when I returned. And that's a gas unit, which has more loss through the chimney than an electric, which can be totally insulated.

It's also in the pipe run and frequency of running: if the tankless is "local" it can save more in a big house with short pipe run. If they are both "central" then I agree as the insulation and heat loss is really not so bad. If you use hot water very infrequently then the tankless (especially local) is great: but in absoulte dollars still not so much money. I had a tankless closet unit (also less risk of major water damage) for an upstairs MBR and electric tank in basement for 3000ft2 house and it was a perfect setup. The added cost likely got paid off - both lasted the almost 20 years I was there. (Drained the tank few gallons every year, never did the anode, and maybe replaced one heater element)

 

[tizod]

They are around, expensive to buy, but saves on heating and also dehumidifies your dungeon (basement). There still are rebates for these water heaters, but I could see them going away...

How to Shop for a Heat Pump Water Heater

We discuss how to know if a new, efficient electric heat pump water heater is right for your home.

www.nytimes.com

Also, the "lost" heat warms the basement a few degrees. Good in winter...heat rises & warms floor (even 1 degree makes a difference!). Less effect in summer, so good tradeoff. So funny thing here is part of the loss they calculate also offsets other energy you need to add to the house for heating etc. thus making the savings better, depending on where you live. Best in colder climates....

 

[skyking1]

Also, the "lost" heat warms the basement a few degrees. Good in winter...heat rises & warms floor (even 1 degree makes a difference!). Less effect in summer, so good tradeoff. So funny thing here is part of the loss they calculate also offsets other energy you need to add to the house for heating etc. thus making the savings better, depending on where you live. Best in colder climates....

it does the opposite. It heats the water by removing heat from the basement air and is a source of cooler air.

 

[tizod]

Wow, thanks skyking1. Total brainfart from this engineer,,,,yes the heat goes into the water and the COOL AIR exhausts into the basement...and everything I said is in reverse, of course. Dang: age and multitasking are not my friend...

 

[COcheesehead]

We like the tankless propane water heater we have except it takes awhile in winter to get the hot water flowing. We don’t have the recirculator pump. Felt it wasn’t worth it.

We have a whole house standby generator so no worries regarding rare power outages.

I had a house without the recirculating pump and found it could take several minutes to get hot water to the furthest faucet. We found that unacceptable.
So when we built I made sure we had the pump. We get almost instant hot water at each faucet now.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Best water heater I had was in my fomer house. A rural property with electricity from a rural co-op. They had an off peak program for water heaters. You had to have a big one that only ran electricity on off peak hours. It was a Marathon, I think it was 55 gallon.

It ran cheap and we never ran out of hot water.

 

[skyking1]

Wow, thanks skyking1. Total brainfart from this engineer,,,,yes the heat goes into the water and the COOL AIR exhausts into the basement...and everything I said is in reverse, of course. Dang: age and multitasking are not my friend...

It is OK, I do it all the time. The other thing about the heat pump units is noise. Do take a look at the reviews. Some of them are quite annoying.

 

[eniacpalm]

It is OK, I do it all the time. The other thing about the heat pump units is noise. Do take a look at the reviews. Some of them are quite annoying.

Mine is in a lower level closet, I never hear it running and even when I'm next to the closet, I don't hear it.

 

[Music Lover]

We have a $600 Rheem electric water tank, I replaced it myself about 5 years ago for about $30 in fittings.

If the HW tank fails I'll just go pick up a new one and have it installed and running in less than an hour.

 

[mailbagman]

Tankless requires an energy source, either electric or gas fired. You may not have sufficient electric to run the high amp circuit for an on-demand tankless style heater.

Mine is nat gas fired.