Retirement, bars and gambling not far behind.

[indiajust]

I've heard or read that the lottery and scratch off lotto tickets are a tax on the poor.

only a tax on the ignorant, some of whom are indeed poor. the rest are lucky.

 

[indiajust]

The lead story in The Atlantic magazine this month is of a man staked by the magazine with $10,000 to wager on sports for six months and then write about the experience. He was a non-gambler, and tries very hard to explain what was going on in his head as he gambled. [Spoiler: he lost his stake]. I still didn't comprehend the appeal - some of it is hormonal - but I did gather that he gained a great feeling of competence in mastering the process, if not the key to winning. He also believed he would win. That might explain the lack of appeal of gambling to me - I believe I will lose if I gamble. It's too easy for me too visualize the money spent as material goods flying out the door. And I cannot grasp the abstraction of gambling as "action."

Seems odd, like asking a mormon housewife to be a prostitute for a month and write about it. If you want to understand gambling, get in the ring and talk to a gambler. Even Kenny Rogers song beats the Atlantic approach.

 

[flyoverstate]

Thankfully, both of us were raised by non-gambling, mostly teetotalers. Mt wife drinks maybe two drinks a year, I drink about a case of beer a month. No gambling at all, other than two lottery tickets when the prize is above $1 Billion! Amongst our close friends I probably drink more than most at about 0.75 beers per day average. When we go to a restaurant, I have iced tea and my wife has diet Pepsi. We never have understood the drinking and gambling lifestyle. To each their own.

I hate that gambling has been normalized in our society. Lots of dumb people out there with no self-control are ruining their lives. The gambling industry bribed their way into nearly every state legislature, and now we have people taking advantage of other's weaknesses at an unprecedented level. Just another factor in the terrible wave of people retiring broke.

 

[Diogenes]

Interesting revelation from a frequent poster in the Active Investing forum. To some of us who are less mathematically inclined, investing can feel like gambling, and actual casino gambling can feel like a sure way for us to lose money. ...

The key difference is that a gamble is zero-sum. For there to be a winner, there has to be a loser. No value is generated in the activity. Money just changes hands. An investment is positive sum. Some people benefit more than others, but there is inherent value being generated (oil extracted, insurance premiums collected, widgets built, wheat harvested etc.). An investment is a claim on that value. How the market evaluates that claim, can fluctuate wildly.... and so, if we time our entrances and exits, we can turn an investment into a gamble. But with a gamble, we only win if we correctly bet... whereas with an investment, we only lose if we incorrectly bet. Or, if we are misinformed about the underlying value (the business isn't actually profitable, but we think that it is).

 

[Diogenes]

Getting an engineering requires discipline. In the early 80s when I was young and pursuing my BSME, I tried combining that with the frat scene and working part-time (and maintaining my ROTC scholarship). One party where I imbibed way too much, got not only very ill stomach wise but a cold that turned to bronchitis and missed a week of school stopped the party side very quickly. ...

Engineers are natural FIRE candidates... they work hard, focus, set aside money, invest assiduously, but then perhaps plateau and burn out.

Trouble is, that whereas the accumulation of money and the freedom to retire early are apt rewards for the virtues of patience, of discipline and so on, we might find ourselves later in life, without a social reward. Put it this way... the cool kids (liberal arts majors) party in college, while the engineers study. Then the cool kids get McJobs, partying and spending their resources, while the engineers save their shekels and invest. Decades pass. The cool kids might have to wait until 70 to retire, or never retire, while the engineer retires at 55. OK, great... but to what does the engineer retire? If the goal was to sit quietly and read books for the remainder of one's life, OK, fantastic! But if the goal is to be able to party, once there comes a time when partying can be afforded and accommodated... oops!

I can't drink to any great extent, if there's a deadline tomorrow, if I have to appear smartly dressed and alert at a corporate meeting, if I have to lecture in front of students and so on. I can't afford to sleep-in, to nurse a hangover, to appear with bloodshot eyes in the conference room. So, I desist from those things. I focus on work, on being alert and dedicated. OK, great! I retire early. Bye-bye, conference room! Now I'm comfortably affluent, 55 or 60 or whatever... maybe even younger. I can sleep-in. I have surfeit of leisure-hours. But where's the party? I have the money, I have the time, I still have the stamina. But I don't have the friends. They're busy working. Or raising kids. Or babysitting their grandkids.

You know that ubiquitous cartoon about the "time is money" guy hurrying past the graveyard, with the tombstone inscribed "Time > money"? But consider: what if you have both time and money... but lack the social connections to employ either?

 

[RetiredHappy]

But consider: what if you have both time and money... but lack the social connections to employ either?

Join a club, country club or whatever...

 

[TheWizard]

Engineers are natural FIRE candidates... they work hard, focus, set aside money, invest assiduously, but then perhaps plateau and burn out.

Trouble is, that whereas the accumulation of money and the freedom to retire early are apt rewards for the virtues of patience, of discipline and so on, we might find ourselves later in life, without a social reward. Put it this way... the cool kids (liberal arts majors) party in college, while the engineers study. Then the cool kids get McJobs, partying and spending their resources, while the engineers save their shekels and invest. Decades pass. The cool kids might have to wait until 70 to retire, or never retire, while the engineer retires at 55. OK, great... but to what does the engineer retire? If the goal was to sit quietly and read books for the remainder of one's life, OK, fantastic! But if the goal is to be able to party, once there comes a time when partying can be afforded and accommodated... oops!

I can't drink to any great extent, if there's a deadline tomorrow, if I have to appear smartly dressed and alert at a corporate meeting, if I have to lecture in front of students and so on. I can't afford to sleep-in, to nurse a hangover, to appear with bloodshot eyes in the conference room. So, I desist from those things. I focus on work, on being alert and dedicated. OK, great! I retire early. Bye-bye, conference room! Now I'm comfortably affluent, 55 or 60 or whatever... maybe even younger. I can sleep-in. I have surfeit of leisure-hours. But where's the party? I have the money, I have the time, I still have the stamina. But I don't have the friends. They're busy working. Or raising kids. Or babysitting their grandkids.

You know that ubiquitous cartoon about the "time is money" guy hurrying past the graveyard, with the tombstone inscribed "Time > money"? But consider: what if you have both time and money... but lack the social connections to employ either?

Your stereotype is grievously incorrect.
I went to a well known science/engineering school in the Boston area and we had PLENTY of partying along with more healthy outdoor activities.

Yes, I had fellow classmates who didn't partake of booze or weed, but plenty did.

For the most part , I don't think that abstainers at age 20 suddenly take up boozing at age 55-60 when they retire from responsible employment.

As for myself, I slug down a bit of booze over the course of a month but I can't recall the last time I had anything resembling a hangover.

Bottom line: you need to recalibrate your suppositions...

 

[Music Lover]

The key difference is that a gamble is zero-sum. For there to be a winner, there has to be a loser. No value is generated in the activity. Money just changes hands.

Gambling is zero sum if I bet my buddy $20 on a sporting event. Or if I run a football pool and pay out 100%.

But with third party involvement (the house) it's never zero sum for the gambler.

 

[TheWizard]

Gambling is zero sum if I bet my buddy $20 on a sporting event. Or if I run a football pool and pay out 100%.

But with third party involvement (the house) it's never zero sum for the gambler.

Correct. When "the house" is involved, gambling is somewhat WORSE than a zero sum bet...

 

[Diogenes]

Your stereotype is grievously incorrect.

This isn't supposition; it's hard data. I'm an engineering professor at a college in SoCal. A half-hour before I typed my post, there was a stream of students in and out of my office, asking questions and in some cases bemoaning their burdens of study. Some grumble for attention or sympathy. Some are so stoic or reticent, that I have to be the one asking why they look stressed or sleep-deprived. They're not up all night playing video games, watching cat videos on insta-tube or doing lines of coke. They're hammering away at the problem set that I assigned to them. How do I know? Because of the subtle difference in the stream of questions yesterday vs. today.

We have a bar on campus. It's run by the college of hotel management, or something like that. Nice place. I go there occasionally... alone. Culture and strict campus policy prevents me from taking a group of students there... and it would be awkward, even if there weren't such prohibition. But here's a personal observation: it's a sparsely attended place. Probably alumni go there more often than students. And when I do overhear conversations among the youth there, it's not about engineering problem-sets.

 

[Original Wally]

VERY OLD JOKE: Guy is broke. His buddy sez "what happened to all your money?" "Well --- I spent a bunch on booze and broads, and then wasted the rest"