Right to farm law-dealing with idiot city worker

[retire to nature]

Hi Everyone hope you all are doing well and have a great new year.

I have been doing well, and my brain tumor and thyroid cancer dog is doing well too. He is actually much better after the radiation therapy, wanting to go out all the time.

I was thinking since I lost the other dog and he would decline like hospice care, I would be stuck here for a while so decided to practice my self sufficiency life style in my current home in my city first and later buy a rural area land to dream come true retire to nature, haha. So I got 5 chicks to raise. And I am so enjoying of them. It was the best thing I did in 2023!

So before I got them, I read my city regulation, requires a permit. Well, but even a dog require a permit but many people dont have. So I just bought 5 chicks to distract my stress losing my first dog, and a few week later she passed. So my chickens were my companies so attached much.

And it turned out 3 roosters and 2 hens. Chicken's sex is shown later ages. I was worried if they make too noise. But my neighbor sitting outside for smoking talked me she is so enjoying my roosters. My city is good for retirement, so many of them are seniors.

Since it is my first year of raising, I am learning that how much they can jump or flying etc. And of course they have teenager time too. Also, learned how many predators are visiting.

And one day, she knocked my door and told me my chickens were out of fence. so I thanked her and she left saying we love your chickens. so I called them, they came back. I heard many people (on the street that is out of my view)trying to let them to go back home. They were not mad or anything, just happy to help the chickens.

I guess she must called animal control since she were worried to lose them. So later on that day, police man came by saying if I have a permit and my city doesnt allow rooster. And since I am doing farming, I got free woodchips from tree company who cut a whole tree on my street. So it was a lot like a mountain.

They sent a mail with a cover letter with bolded letter "NO ROOSTER" and permit application saying only hens. asking if my lot is 3 acre or more. (Mine is just about 7500sqft, just regular single family house in residential zone) And the copied regulation for the animal part attached.

So I read thoroughly, but there is no saying no rooster rule. It says just fowl, and no more than 4 pets per household. So I called the office to let me know which part saying no rooster. A female clerk kept saying no rooster. I said it said fowl so rooster is alright. she said rooster is not chicken. I said yes a rooster is a male chicken as a fowl. So had to make the dumb conversation and she said she would call back. And she called me back saying a rooster is violate for noisy. Well, no one complained the noisy, but I knew they just manipulated the rule so misinformed automatically. So I got mad because I dont plan to let them go. Actually too many rooster can have troubles, but mine are very fine so absolutely no plan letgo.

I was loose to let them free over my 3 feet fence and puberty time, my next door called police complained they were in her yard. I have a bad history with her, we dont get along. I knew she were taking filming of my chicks when they were chicks. One day from inside home watching my chickens digging my woodchip pile in my front yard, but found out she reported the film complaining about my chicken goes her yard. so got 3 tickets. first no permit, 2nd, chickens on neighbors property, 3rd having rooster, noisy nuisance.

I called the office again. per city regulation, it said if it is a farmer, the rule is excluded. And I applied USDA farmland, so I have official paper showing my address is farmland and submitted to him, who seems charger in health dept. But again this idiot dept, he is saying I can garden but cant farm in residential zone. also tickets for 8 inch higher weed for my crop plants. I have 2 big greenhouse and all yard is converted to woodchip. He is saying agricultural zone required 3 acre and I have to make clear 2 feet away from fence line. Well for 7500sqft yard -front yard-living area-2feet no farming then, I lose much land to farm. I asked which exact number regulation shows that and he couldnt answer.

So I am taking this case for court set up in march. So after I researched to represent myself. I see Right to farm law in my state.

this from wikipedia.

Right to farm laws in the United States deny nuisance lawsuits against farmers who use accepted and standard farming practices and have been in prior operation even if these practices harm or bother adjacent property owners or the general public. Agricultural nuisances may include noise, odors, visual clutter and dangerous structures. All 50 states have some form of Right to Farm law.

also learned. oath of office. so I read the city regulation from a to z there is no saying things like 2 ft away or residential zone no farming etc. actually in general farming is supported by government. And agricultural zone is to support more farming. As USDA call it farmland, the definition of agricultural land is based on what is done not based on zoning. Also there is farmland protection law etc. I feel like he is enjoying totally power game, if he say so, residents just follow. I look at my woodchip pile as my asset for farming, but he just ticketed me again with debris or trash.

So I am pretty positive to win my case, but I want to ask here because some people would have been in law or people here are smartest in my around haha.

With all that law, how can it be prohibited no rooster in many cities? even though in constitute farming is said not limited breeding.

I was upset because the city clerk was manipulatively made the application form already. Does a city has that kind of power? I think it is wrong to inform that way. It just make them convenient way to manage but no respect of civil right. Am I wrong?

 

[Al18]

Interesting read. I have no experience, but it sounds like a minimum is to get the permit for the chickens. You may want to get rid of two roosters - which should quiet down the bunch. You may also look into getting a taller fence, so the chickens will stay in the yard. The neighbor was there long before the chickens, so you’ll need to figure out how to keep the peace.

It could be worse - plenty of horror stories once an HOA is established.

 

[retire to nature]

Interesting read. I have no experience, but it sounds like a minimum is to get the permit for the chickens. You may want to get rid of two roosters - which should quiet down the bunch. You may also look into getting a taller fence, so the chickens will stay in the yard. The neighbor was there long before the chickens, so you’ll need to figure out how to keep the peace.

It could be worse - plenty of horror stories once an HOA is established.

well, with the manipulation, I cant have a permit with only one rooster. I know the ratio rule, but like for right now no plan let go. I already made fence to 6 ft. And I hear many neighbors stop by making comment they are enjoying my chickens. Also, I dont want to bother ppl's sleep, they stay in my basement for sleep. and Luckily no hoa.

 

[swakyaby]

I live in a mid-sized city in central California. Our city laws state homeowners can have up to 5 backyard chickens. But no roosters. I think it’s a pretty common city ordinance.

 

[retire to nature]

I live in a mid-sized city in central California. Our city laws state homeowners can have up to 5 backyard chickens. But no roosters. I think it’s a pretty common city ordinance.

I know many cities do that. my point is here is no rule in my city rule. my city name is divided in two sections. One is managed by the city I am talking about with 4 pets only. Another section is even though it is the same name of city it belongs to county management with no restriction at all.

one next city is clearly written no rooster in the written city regulation. so I wont argue.

But I am mad at that point, even though my city written rule is no restriction for rooster, but the city is doing that. So that is the point I am mad at the officer because the application was made already with no rooster. only hens. And some people had to give up their rooster even though they wanted to keep because he is manipulative to say that way.

 

[sturbridge]

Chickens are not considered pets, they are livestock. Many areas have rules for livestock including minimum grazing areas. In my rural area, you have to have 5 acres to be able to be zoned a farm.

 

[HarveyS]

I think you will be disappointed if you fight this. First, you willingly got the chickens without a permit, even though you knew you needed a permit. Second, you do not have three acres.
Third, you are, it seems, in an area zoned residential. That restricts what you can do on your property. Fourth, the authorities have already visited you and pointed out the issues. Fifth, you have a neighbor you don't get along with who will continue to call the authorities.

 

[punkinhead]

I think you will be disappointed if you fight this. First, you willingly got the chickens without a permit, even though you knew you needed a permit. Second, you do not have three acres.
Third, you are, it seems, in an area zoned residential. That restricts what you can do on your property. Fourth, the authorities have already visited you and pointed out the issues. Fifth, you have a neighbor you don't get along with who will continue to call the authorities.

And sixth, doesn't have a fence tall enough to contain chickens.

 

[DrRoy]

I hope it works out for you.

 

[pb4uski]

...Am I wrong?

Yes, have you ever heard of the expression "You can't fight city hall"?

By your own admission you knew that you needed a permit for the chickens and didn't get one before buying them so you brought this on yourself.

The application said no more than 4 pets per household and you have 6...5 chickens and a dog.

You've received 4 or more tickets.

You are being obstinate and will likely lose big time in court and then start another post to complain about it.

Just move or get rid of the chickens... it isn't worth the trouble.

My BIL has a real farm and chickens and he has netting on the top of the fence... in his case to protect his chickens from hawks but it also keeps them from flying away.

 

[retire to nature]

And sixth, doesn't have a fence tall enough to contain chickens.

I already made my fence to 6 ft and it contains my chickens in. Also, my chickens acts following my command, and come for petting. So it is not like I am chasing them all the time. The officer think my made fence is another problem, but I can win over the right to farm as well.

 

[pjigar]

I think you will be disappointed if you fight this. First, you willingly got the chickens without a permit, even though you knew you needed a permit. Second, you do not have three acres.
Third, you are, it seems, in an area zoned residential. That restricts what you can do on your property. Fourth, the authorities have already visited you and pointed out the issues. Fifth, you have a neighbor you don't get along with who will continue to call the authorities.

I concure. I would try to make peace with the city and quiet your activities down. I hear you completely though. I am a beekeeper and a farmer myself. I had a similar case with bees when I was living in the city: ordinances (ordinance had a section on beekeeping and I was following all the requirements) can be interpreted in a two exactly opposite ways if a lawyer wants it. I lost. Now, I moved outside city limit with 17 acres to establish farming BEFORE city limit moves closer. I would be able to fight with any would be city around me since farm came before the city came.

PS: Most right-to-farm laws will have minimum acreage and/or timing requirements. (My state requires that the farming operation must have been established 1 year prior to the lawsuit and typically on a land parcel larger than 5 acres). If you don't meet the acreage and/or timing requirements then all city ordinances will apply in any interpretation city wants.

 

[retire to nature]

^^^ Yup, OP is being obstinate and will lose big time and then start another post to complain about it.

Just move or get rid of the chickens... it isn't worth the trouble.

Well, there is no get rid of chickens. I am practicing to go to live in deep nature alone.

Yes, I am a hard head. And people think I should follow people saying. I assess and judge and decide.

People here including you told me sell all my houses, but I didnt. So my asset became doubled and became multimillionaire.

But I am this kind person, enjoying animal and farming, I have a borderline auto immune disease, so I have been growing vegetables since 2011, and it will last forever for me. people dont know how different real food without pestcide and fertilizer. I am enjoying my egg so much too. And I need to learn about roosters so too. So it is so great worth to keep my roosters.

 

[retire to nature]

Chickens are not considered pets, they are livestock. Many areas have rules for livestock including minimum grazing areas. In my rural area, you have to have 5 acres to be able to be zoned a farm.

I understand each city district has own regulation. But, mainly USDA is the dept managing agriculture, their saying urban farming can be even from 0.01 acre.

 

[pb4uski]

Well, there is no get rid of chickens. I am practicing to go to live in deep nature alone.

Yes, I am a hard head. And people think I should follow people saying. I assess and judge and decide.

People here including you told me sell all my houses, but I didnt. So my asset became doubled and became multimillionaire.

But I am this kind person, enjoying animal and farming, I have a borderline auto immune disease, so I have been growing vegetables since 2011, and it will last forever for me. people dont know how different real food without pestcide and fertilizer. I am enjoying my egg so much too. And I need to learn about roosters so too. So it is so great worth to keep my roosters.

If you are really a multimillionaire then why don't you move out of the city and buy a small farm?

Or at least spend a little money to get advice from a lawyer on this chicken issue.

And no one told you to sell all your houses. That thread was about a specific house that you were waffling on keeping or selling and numerous posters observed that you seemed to be fretting about landlording so much that it would be best for you to sell.

 

[Fermion]

Our city is overrun with wild turkey (not the alcohol kind). Toms and hens. I don't know if we have an ordinance against chickens but it would seem a bit silly when yesterday I had over 50 turkeys in the front yard.

 

[Beststash]

From my experience I think you will find you have too many roosters. Over time you will find your chickens will be "bald" on their backs because the roosters think they have to mate ever 15 min. or so. Usually one rooster for about a dozen hens is the norm.

Your right, when you buy chicks you can't tell the gender. I think you would be better off just buying pullets.

The fresh eggs are nice but beware there are a lot of varmints and snakes that like them also so be diligent in pinning them at night in a secure house.

As most people have said almost every place has rules and ordinances to ensure that people can enjoy their chickens without causing problems, etc.

Have fun!!

 

[Aerides]

You are in a pretty normal SFH residential neighborhood with multiple chickens outside, which have containment issues and no permit?

Sorry, you are not going to win this one. You cannot "practice" being deep in nature AND having the livestock, when you are 50 feet or less from a neighbor.

Sure, everyone will be nice and say they like them - to your face - but there are many problems (noise, smell, attracting predators, etc.) that can come with chickens, and your neighbors are telling the authorities, no matter what they say to you.

 

[retire to nature]

I think you will be disappointed if you fight this. First, you willingly got the chickens without a permit, even though you knew you needed a permit. Second, you do not have three acres.
Third, you are, it seems, in an area zoned residential. That restricts what you can do on your property. Fourth, the authorities have already visited you and pointed out the issues. Fifth, you have a neighbor you don't get along with who will continue to call the authorities.

Well, I pointed out that I dont need a permit. In my city regulation, it clearly says.. When he sent me the mail with copied regulation, he edited and didnt show this part.

Provisions set out in Sections 205.350(this is permit part) and 205.360 shall not apply to any premises within the City which is used for and as a farm.

according to MO constitution, not necessary to be zoned for agriculture zone only.

https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=262.805&bid=14197&hl=agricultural+land%u2044

So when I apply for USDA to start a farm, of course they collected my address and check things and approved. So they are keeping the farm registration in US, and they are saying I have a farm, then who cant say I cant farm in my land?

And because the officer is an idiot. he said 2 ft clearance asked to cut. I have blackberry trees through out my fence. according to my city regulation, it clearly says.

The word "weeds" shall not include trees, edible vegetation normal to a neatly maintained vegetable or herb garden; vegetation producing edible fruits, berries and/or produce; and decorative vegetation such as flowers, shrubs, bushes, vines/ivy (English ivy) and ground cover.


The neighbor was complaining the chickens were in her yard, but after I made my fence to 6 ft, it was solved. Also, I didnt think she complained noisy. And like I mentioned in the original post, right to farm law will work again.

Right to farm laws in the United States deny nuisance lawsuits against farmers who use accepted and standard farming practices and have been in prior operation even if these practices harm or bother adjacent property owners or the general public. Agricultural nuisances may include noise, odors, visual clutter and dangerous structures.

Mainly I am not get along with her, she asked my tools before and made my electric pruner set $300 broken and I asked her pay $150. And she paid. But while interaction, I judged her attitude and here all the time phone call argument. I think she is abusing housing assistant program, but the disabled guy is gone, and she lost her job around that time she reported. I was a nurse who assess the qualification to get the disability and I have section 8 tenants too. So it is a fraud. thats why I dont plan to get along with her. I was here first and homeowner but she moved in less than a year with disability guy but the guy is gone.

 

[punkinhead]

Right to farm laws in the United States deny nuisance lawsuits against farmers who use accepted and standard farming practices and have been in prior operation even if these practices harm or bother adjacent property owners or the general public.

That stipulation is put in place to avoid sprawling suburbs growing into rural areas and creating problems for existing farms. It doesn't protect you from coming into an existing neighborhood and treating it as a farm.

 

[retire to nature]

You are in a pretty normal SFH residential neighborhood with multiple chickens outside, which have containment issues and no permit?

Sorry, you are not going to win this one. You cannot "practice" being deep in nature AND having the livestock, when you are 50 feet or less from a neighbor.

Sure, everyone will be nice and say they like them - to your face - but there are many problems (noise, smell, attracting predators, etc.) that can come with chickens, and your neighbors are telling the authorities, no matter what they say to you.

Have you heard backyard chicken and urban farming? it happens in residential zone. Also, my city allow backyard chicken too.



Thats why I have the woodchip to control the odor. I checked homedepot for the woodchip price. mine in the front can be a few thousand dollar worth. People think it can be bought in market anytime. but no those products are seasonal and livestock is not seasonally pooping.

 

[retire to nature]

Chickens are not considered pets, they are livestock. Many areas have rules for livestock including minimum grazing areas. In my rural area, you have to have 5 acres to be able to be zoned a farm.

well, people used to say a dog live only outside. But see now. Chicken world is evolving too. chicken leash and diaper etc are sold.

I consider mine as pet and livestock. I will learn how to kill and make meat too for my living.

 

[retire to nature]

If you are really a multimillionaire then why don't you move out of the city and buy a small farm?

Or at least spend a little money to get advice from a lawyer on this chicken issue.

And no one told you to sell all your houses. That thread was about a specific house that you were waffling on keeping or selling and numerous posters observed that you seemed to be fretting about landlording so much that it would be best for you to sell.

Actually, I am closing on another house today, and still have 8 more to go. I was thinking which state I will go or just stay in mo, but decided to go texas.

Like I said about my dogs condition, I didnt want to bother to get more stress to moving to farm right now, I decided to practice here first. Farming and animal is a big joy for me, so I started to managing the grief of my dog loss, and my another dog health declining.

But luckily, my dog improved, and I see him a few more years with me. Also, I may travel abroad for a while. So this house will be my basecamp. This house is just nothing to maintain for my asset.

And I will build a house in texas, so it will take a few years for complete move, so I will win the case.

Oh lawyers, I have hired a few lawyers for other reason, immigration, car accident, and probate, but they were even typing incorrectly. And made me wait so long excusing covid, but he was calling wrong court number. Finally, I googled court phone number and solved things in minutes.

I am asking this hear because I want to see how people think. And I am pretty sure lawyers would say what people said here as just follow authority says. But when the authority is an idiot cant read the written regulation correctly, then it is a problem.

 

[Trailwalker]

You sound like you have your mind made up. Good luck to you. It's an interesting situation. Let us know how it turns out.

It is possible to get rid of chickens. My rooster, who was abusing the hens, went to the freezer after processing. My neighbor has a rooster that is mildly annoying but no more so than the other neighbor's barking dogs, so I let it slide.

 

[retire to nature]

If you are really a multimillionaire then why don't you move out of the city and buy a small farm?

Or at least spend a little money to get advice from a lawyer on this chicken issue.

And no one told you to sell all your houses. That thread was about a specific house that you were waffling on keeping or selling and numerous posters observed that you seemed to be fretting about landlording so much that it would be best for you to sell.

I am talking about the earlier post just after my sister death. I had about 2mil at that time, so ppl said get rid of all property would be ok since 2 mil is high. And again I assess and judge and decide. I thought housing price will go up due to low inventory and disasters around my state.

now I have 4 mil, but still enjoying digging soils.