Rolling the dice on career with re-org layoffs

[chemEguy]

As my title suggests, I’m rolling the dice right now. Let me explain…

Our megacorp has announced a major re-org (again) and layoffs are in progress. My group may or may not be hit with reductions, my role may or may not be in jeopardy. Usual BS spin from mgmt.

I have tentatively circled Dec 31, 2027 as my done date.

If I’m let go, I’m entitled to just over 9 months of severance pay. That leaves me 18 months short of my target and I’d like salary during that time. How hard will it be for a 52 year old engineer to find a job? Not sure.

Here’s the rub, there’s an open position in another group that I’m a good candidate to fill that could carry me the rest of the way. I spoke to the hiring manager for the details as we’ve known each other for awhile. So why haven’t I proactively applied? Because it would take my business travel from the current level of almost nothing to once a month coast to coast for a key client plus other shorter trips mixed in…at least 25% of my time.

To me, that’s a problem. The coast to coast means three days out of a week which impacts weekly orchestra practice, time I value. If I were 22 I’d be all over travel, at 52 I have no desire to be away from home, spouse, pets, and evening hobby engagements one week a month. I value my time and being on the road for work at this stage ain’t it.

So…I’m rolling the dice on the following outcome:

- I’m left alone and can continue in my current role, or…
- I’m cut, and can land a role that pays about 75% of my current salary inside of 9 months

If I were cut and found something quickly, my retirement date would move up because I’d be double dipping on salary. Or I’m cut and can’t find anything and the dice come up snake eyes.

I’ve started to casually look externally at what may be out there. I think I’d rather take a new job with a new company for about a year or so and collect the 9 months severance then take a role with 25% travel.

My wife is still working and she pulls in about 2/3 of our compensation. I’ll probably feel a bit guilty if I’m let go and she’s still at work.

 

[Buckeye]

I wouldn't take the position with frequent travel. Life is too short. I would roll the dice...and work on tamping down any guilt!

 

[Diogenes]

Depends on how risk-averse one happens to be. It's a matter of personality, and not of rational dispassionate assessment of the odds. I'd take the travel-job in a heartbeat, but that's because I detest uncertainty, and also place essentially zero value on personal time.

December 31, 2027 is a loooong way in the future! Who knows what might happen between now and then? If this travel-laden job offers excellent prospect for over two years of job security, with good remuneration, plus per diem for the travel-days... then, that's hard to refuse.

 

[Koolau]

Is a "hard" transition to "retired early" not possible? IOW is the 2 1/2 more years a bridge to age 55 or is it an economic necessity for Early Retirement?

In any case, best luck on your roll of the dice.

 

[tulak]

I would take the package. Do you really need another 18 months of income?

 

[Route246]

Depends on how risk-averse one happens to be. It's a matter of personality, and not of rational dispassionate assessment of the odds. I'd take the travel-job in a heartbeat, but that's because I detest uncertainty, and also place essentially zero value on personal time.

December 31, 2027 is a loooong way in the future! Who knows what might happen between now and then? If this travel-laden job offers excellent prospect for over two years of job security, with good remuneration, plus per diem for the travel-days... then, that's hard to refuse.

Agree. Not sure where you live, what sector you work in and what your personal credentials are but at 52 you're probably going to face some ageism (impossible to detect or prove) unless you possess some special high-demand skills. I detest corporate travel but I would tolerate it for a year or two if I needed the income. If I could do without the income then I would probably stay put and roll the dice.

 

[marko]

"How hard will it be for a 52 year old engineer to find a job?"

From personal experience, pretty hard. Truthfully, not very likely.

I had a stellar resume (senior executive C level) and industry-wide name recognition. At age 52, I thought getting another job would be a snap. I never went back to work. Never even a decent nibble outside of a few "courtesy interviews".

If you're set on still working, I'd take the guaranteed other job. If not, you may get more time for orchestra practice.

Good luck!

(For me, travel was the best part of the job. "Nobody ever got in trouble when they're out of the office and far away from the daily crap.")

 

[mrfeh]

I wouldn't think one year of salary would make that much difference in your situation.

Unless your retirement plan is on a knife's edge.

 

[Dtail]

I would take a long hard look at retiring now, especially with the wife still working. You could pick up any chores she is currently doing.
Getting hired over the age of 50 is not easy.

 

[Aerides]

"How hard will it be for a 52 year old engineer to find a job?"

From personal experience, pretty hard. Truthfully, not very likely.

I had a stellar resume (senior executive C level) and industry-wide name recognition. At age 52, I thought getting another job would be a snap. I never went back to work. Never even a decent nibble outside of a few "courtesy interviews".

If you're set on still working, I'd take the guaranteed other job. If not, you may get more time for orchestra practice.

Good luck!

(For me, travel was the best part of the job. "Nobody ever got in trouble when they're out of the office and far away from the daily crap.")

Yup!

And a 52 year old engineer? Even less likely. C-suite is expected to have a little silver in their hair. New engineers not so much. Unless OP is a particularly young looking 52 who passes, dresses, and presents as mid-40's or less. Those factors also put a mark on you for the layoff list. Best to move into that other chair while the music is still playing.

Remember, another job outside your org will also start with minimal time off. And all the adjustments there.

 

[Al18]

I would do your best to keep working at your current employer until you are 55, so you can tap 401K penalty free. Let your current employer know you can take a different position. Under new management, they may find your experience invaluable in reorganizing the company.

 

[chemEguy]

There are two compelling reasons to work the final two years. First is that both kids are in college and we are using salary money to pay for it.

The second is to show solidarity with my wife. She’s in a very high stress position but she’s not ready to retire yet. If I’m not working, she’s going to put even more pressure on herself to keep working.

Can we make retirement work now? I think so, but the college costs are chunky. FIREcalc says we should be good, especially if I trust social security to be there at 62.

I totally get why some think the sure thing job is the right call, but two years of that much travel…I just don’t think I can deal with it.

Like the A1C thread I started, I’ll update and keep you all posted. I appreciate the various viewpoints as always.

 

[Aerides]

The second is to show solidarity with my wife. She’s in a very high stress position but she’s not ready to retire yet. If I’m not working, she’s going to put even more pressure on herself to keep working.

Don't underestimate this part, in fact it should be central to your decision, more than other factors. Retiring now (even with severance) could put a lot of strain on a marriage. You'd be wise to retire together.

 

[street]

In your situation I might consider the inhouse job with travel. One year of travel you do miss something you enjoy but set the date now when you will stop at that job. If you don't get that inhouse job quit and try to find a job. That might mean more obstacles and more complex then that inhouse job you may get if you apply.

 

[latexman]

Here’s the rub, there’s an open position in another group that I’m a good candidate to fill that could carry me the rest of the way. I spoke to the hiring manager for the details as we’ve known each other for awhile. So why haven’t I proactively applied? Because it would take my business travel from the current level of almost nothing to once a month coast to coast for a key client plus other shorter trips mixed in…at least 25% of my time.

I don't see why you can't "optimize" the travel to suit you better, if you know what I mean. Use more non-travel communication. Push the envelope to travel once a quarter (8 % travel) or bi-yearly (4% travel). In 18 months, after a big downsizing, what are they going to do, fire you for traveling less than the last guy? I doubt it. Make it a compromise job to suit you first, then the company. Travel the first month, but "miss" the second, and see how it goes. I doubt anything happens. Taper it down to something you can tolerate.

 

[Delawaredave5]

I went through dozens of Megacorp layoffs. Can't predict - times I thought I was toast, I wasn't. Other times thought I was OK, wasn't.

I'd do which job I like the most now.

 

[Koolau]

There are two compelling reasons to work the final two years. First is that both kids are in college and we are using salary money to pay for it.

The second is to show solidarity with my wife. She’s in a very high stress position but she’s not ready to retire yet. If I’m not working, she’s going to put even more pressure on herself to keep working.

Can we make retirement work now? I think so, but the college costs are chunky. FIREcalc says we should be good, especially if I trust social security to be there at 62.

I totally get why some think the sure thing job is the right call, but two years of that much travel…I just don’t think I can deal with it.

Like the A1C thread I started, I’ll update and keep you all posted. I appreciate the various viewpoints as always.

Thanks for the clarification. Apparently you are not concerned about the rule of 55 for your 401(k). Apparently, you CAN afford to retire - even if a couple of years earlier - though paying kids' school from salary would be nicer. FIRECalc says "either way."

SO, realistically it comes down to your relationship with your DW and all the intricacies of that with respect to w*rk - and possible travel for the new j*b. Only you know how to navigate that potential mine field. Maybe it's time for a long week-end away from the kids with DW to discuss the situation and let her help you roll the dice.

All the best. And, yes, do, please keep us posted. We're invested now.

 

[Route246]

Yup!

And a 52 year old engineer? Even less likely. C-suite is expected to have a little silver in their hair. New engineers not so much. Unless OP is a particularly young looking 52 who passes, dresses, and presents as mid-40's or less. Those factors also put a mark on you for the layoff list. Best to move into that other chair while the music is still playing.

Remember, another job outside your org will also start with minimal time off. And all the adjustments there.

I asked where and what credentials OP had. Here in Silicon Valley it is a little different regarding ageism. Agree C-suite is near impossible but pure engineering is all about fitting the role and if you have valuable, in-demand skills you can get hired. I got multiple offers at 59 when I took a package from my previous megacorp but I had some cutting-edge skills, papers published and some patents. I'm by no means a superstar who walks on water but I know what those type of engineers have and I have pretty good self-awareness, and I look a little younger than my age, I dress the part and I'm pretty humble when being asked technical questions in interviews. I can do well on the whiteboard when drilled with coding questions. I'm not syntax-perfect but I can verbalize my thinking process well which is what they are looking for. I just retired last week at 68 and I'm pretty sure I could still do OK in interviews but I'm not as sharp as I was 9 years ago, for sure.

At 52, if OP is not in decent shape skills-wise it is very challenging, I agree. Grey hair is not an issue, just look at Lisa Su (AMD CEO) and Jensen Huang (NVDA CEO). They wear their grey hair proudly. Appearances do count and if you walk in with no-iron khakis, tucked in collared shirt and are a little out of shape the younger interviewers are not going to be impressed. Nailing an interview is not that difficult if you are prepared. Heck, my last few weeks before I retired were spent interviewing multiple engineering candidates and I still get excited to ask questions and drill them, even on my way out the door. Most have similar skills, it is the very subtle cues that are key to finding keepers and with decades of experience interviewing I know what I missed and where I/we made hiring blunders.

 

[brett]

I suspect than only you know what is best for you and your family.

Make a decision, discuss it with your spouse, and move forward.

Then be prepared to deal with the results of you decision, or the unknown changes or challenges that may come your way.

In the meantime get your resume up to date, connect with colleagues in the industry, get out there and practice your job interview skills. Just in case. Be proactive and always be moving forward. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

 

[bobandsherry]

Been there, done that. I went through a re-org I had the option to move to a different department. It didn't have any travel but a much longer commute since the office was in another city. As I weighed my options, I realized that with severance (18 months fully paid), I’d fall just short of my planned FIRE date, but not by much. As I looked at the numbers, the salary gap didn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things. The bigger picture was getting out from under a lot of corporate nonsense, especially after the re-org chaos.

So, when I heard they were cutting positions, I volunteered to be part of the RIF. Instead, I was told I was “too valuable to let go.” They kept me, gave me more responsibilities and staff reporting to me. But honestly, the job never felt the same afterward. Looking back, I would’ve been happier taking the package and moving on.

 

[Diogenes]

I asked where and what credentials OP had. Here in Silicon Valley it is a little different regarding ageism. Agree C-suite is near impossible but pure engineering is all about fitting the role and if you have valuable, in-demand skills you can get hired. ...

... Appearances do count and if you walk in with no-iron khakis, tucked in collared shirt and are a little out of shape the younger interviewers are not going to be impressed. Nailing an interview is not that difficult if you are prepared. ...

There are "skills", and then there are "skills". For a computer-technology person, the skills are knowing the fashionable languages and being quick at it. For a more general engineer, whose knowledge is in 19th century mechanics and early 20th century experimental-methods, the situation is different. Having gone through an experience like that of several other early-50-year-olds in this thread, I ended up as a college professor... about the only job for which I have adequate "skills", and where ageism is benign. There, what matters is the degree, the publication record and so on. I couldn't write a line of Fortran to save my life, and never learned C, let alone Python. Instead, I spent a career delegating those tasks to others, and then delegating to others, the task of delegating those tasks to others. To replace THAT kind of job, at 50+, is... hard.

 

[COcheesehead]

Before I had my business, I was a traveling rep. Lotta a plane, lonely hotel and airport lounge time. I used to carry a stick of deodorant and a razor in my briefcase in case I got an unexpected overnight stay. Lots of cold sandwiches sitting on a bed drinking a beer from a can. So in other words glamorous. I personally would avoid business travel if I could.

 

[pjigar]

Roll the dice and don't put a cart before the horse.

 

[Gotadimple]

I'm sure you've considered this - if not, ask HR. Don't let that RIF package slip away by taking another position in the company. As you said it goes a long way in your situation. Especially if any RIF requires you to work until a certain date to collect the benefit. More importantly what happens to the package if you fully leave the company and then are re-hired in a different position with lower salary I've seen those go by the wayside in the job offer.

 

[Route246]

There are "skills", and then there are "skills". For a computer-technology person, the skills are knowing the fashionable languages and being quick at it. For a more general engineer, whose knowledge is in 19th century mechanics and early 20th century experimental-methods, the situation is different. Having gone through an experience like that of several other early-50-year-olds in this thread, I ended up as a college professor... about the only job for which I have adequate "skills", and where ageism is benign. There, what matters is the degree, the publication record and so on. I couldn't write a line of Fortran to save my life, and never learned C, let alone Python. Instead, I spent a career delegating those tasks to others, and then delegating to others, the task of delegating those tasks to others. To replace THAT kind of job, at 50+, is... hard.

I was a reluctant manager for a few years and did it more as a favor than anything else. It was not enjoyable, fulfilling or optimal and everyone knew it. I was the best manager to my team and they really enjoyed working for me but since I was continually facing downward the facing upward part was deficient. I performed all of the administrative tasks but I never made my bones as a manager in that I never threw anyone under the bus and usually took the hit myself or as a team if issues came up. The team knew I had their back and they all performed very well and there was probably some envy for that. I never had an HR issue to deal with because the team had adequate or top performers and everyone knew the rules which were simple. Show up, complete your tasks including documentation and administrative items and more importantly back each other up. They did this well. My primary weakness is I was not good at pushing the less ambitious guys into uncomfortable situations to see if career development could be had. The ambitious ones were not a problem but the ones who performed well but didn't show ambition made me look weak. They have a new manager now who follows orders and it is a little rough now for some of the team and there have been escalations. He is not a technical guy and is more comfortable with micromanaging and some are not taking it well. He is doing what he is told so it will probably end well for him.

That said, I and a colleague (former colleague since I'm retired) view this as career suicide for him. In the open market he is basically unemployable unless he can network and find a friend to hire him. That's his choice since he is weak technically. He even told us off-hand that he believes AI will eliminate his job in the next 5-10 years. Not sure what is long range plans are. I wished him well when I left.

I admit, my soft skills are not great but my customer service skills are strong which is rare in my field. Most technical engineers are grumpy and surly at worst and non-responsive at best. My customers/users are king and the sentiment shared when I retired reflects that. I am sure we will have lasting professional/personal sentiments moving forward with my customers (internal).

That said, I do believe I could still handle a grueling technical sourcing and interview process including LeetCode questions. My coding skills are still decent and I can nail the algorithms and probably do ok on the more difficult LeetCode problems. It just takes significant prep time to be ready for these interviews and it also depends on how important syntax-perfect answers are. If syntax is not so important then I can probably survive OK.

In summary, I agree with you that if delegating and following up on delegating is your focus then it is very difficult to get hired off the street. Those hirings are almost always internal or through a direct reference in my experience.