Rolling the dice on career with re-org layoffs

[CO-guy]

Believe me, I’d love to share the details of my formal response because I think it was pretty darn good. I harvested a LOT of my manager’s prior words and feedback to use against him while I built out a timeline and narrative. Can’t say more. Eventually I’ll share. As I said, I figured I was toast anyway so I played all the cards.

Excellent! I recall my final meeting with the (newly hired) VP and HR. They had an employee handbook section tabbed and attempted to show me how they could compel me to do more without increased compensation. I never lost eye contact and simply said, "that doesn't apply to me," before handing over my letter of resignation, effective immediately.

The conversation changed quite a bit after that. In the end I agreed to meet the "minimum requirements" for the remainder of my annual contract, and they even convinced me to stay on at half-time remote for another year after that. I even returned in a remote contractor role this past year. Plus, there's now another new VP (and new director of HR). So even after years of burning bridges, who knows what the future holds.

 

[Diogenes]

I had a follow up meeting on Friday now that the four weeks are up and he told me all objectives were met and the plan is complete and closed out but that I was expected to maintain the level of performance going forward or risk termination.

Huh? What a bizarre meeting that was.

Life seems to work that way. Something desperately needed, is swiftly withdrawn or lost. Something that can easily be forsaken, manages to endure. The less that one's in need, the more power one wields. Isn't it great to be in a position of power?

I'm in the camp, of "why voluntarily quit, when you can wait to be laid off". Severance, unemployment benefits and so on. If one needs a subsequent job, then sure, an involuntary exit can be devastating for future employment prospects. But if this is one's terminal job? Keep collecting those biweekly paychecks, that 401K matching, that annual-leave accrual... and when the hammer finally falls, the anvil is ready!

 

[marko]

Life seems to work that way. Something desperately needed, is swiftly withdrawn or lost. Something that can easily be forsaken, manages to endure. The less that one's in need, the more power one wields. Isn't it great to be in a position of power?

I'm in the camp, of "why voluntarily quit, when you can wait to be laid off". Severance, unemployment benefits and so on. If one needs a subsequent job, then sure, an involuntary exit can be devastating for future employment prospects. But if this is one's terminal job? Keep collecting those biweekly paychecks, that 401K matching, that annual-leave accrual... and when the hammer finally falls, the anvil is ready!

+1. OP, it just occurred to me that they might be hoping you start looking for another job and quit so that they avoid the whole severance/unemployment deal. "See, we didn't fire the old man...he resigned"

That was what happened to me (in a more bizarre situation....hysterical story that I've mentioned here before).

 

[camfused]

Yeah, that came up as well. Like, exactly that.

I’m treating every day as bonus bucks at this point, who knows when the hammer drops. It’s one of the three:

- severance (give that a 5% chance)
- I voluntary retire as planned on Dec 31 (give that a 20% chance)
- I’m ambushed a second time with HR and told, despite being warned, I’ve gone back to being a crap engineer and they escort me out (gotta go 75% on that one)

For the last scenario, I’ve already prepared. Silently removed most of my personal affects already, drafted a thoughtful goodbye email to my colleagues, sent myself email addresses of work colleagues, cleansed my laptop, and made sure my work email is no longer the default for travel websites.

No walk of shame with a box of personal stuff going down here my friends.

You're not a REAL engineer unless you have all these options in a spreadsheet, with pie charts.

 

[chemEguy]

+1. OP, it just occurred to me that they might be hoping you start looking for another job and quit so that they avoid the whole severance/unemployment deal. "See, we didn't fire the old man...he resigned"

That was what happened to me (in a more bizarre situation....hysterical story that I've mentioned here before).

Link to story?

Resign or retire now? Did we surrender when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

 

[Al18]

Germans? Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

 

[CO-guy]

Germans? Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

 

[marko]

Link to story?

My company was acquired and with it, the new company acquired my employment contract that said as long as I behaved and didn't quit, they'd have to pay me seven figures if they fired me. I was also expensive salary-wise.

So they came up with a plan. They transferred me to our Paris office and a no-show job, betting that my wife would hate it and that I wouldn't tolerate a position that had zero responsibility. (I had intercepted an email stating "if his wife is anything like mine, she'll last two weeks in France"). Part of the deal was that they'd pay for an upscale apartment in the Left Bank.

What the idiots didn't know was that we had lived in Paris for a decade years earlier, spoke the language and had many friends there.

After two years of sitting at sidewalk cafés drinking wine, they came to their senses, fired me and paid the contract. I did plan on getting another job but that never happened.

 

[chemEguy]

My company was acquired and with it, the new company acquired my employment contract that said as long as I behaved and didn't quit, they'd have to pay me seven figures if they fired me. I was also expensive salary-wise.

So they came up with a plan. They transferred me to our Paris office and a no-show job, betting that my wife would hate it and that I wouldn't tolerate a position that had zero responsibility. (I had intercepted an email stating "if his wife is anything like mine, she'll last two weeks in France"). Part of the deal was that they'd pay for an upscale apartment in the Left Bank.

What the idiots didn't know was that we had lived in Paris for a decade years earlier, spoke the language and had many friends there.

After two years of sitting at sidewalk cafés drinking wine, they came to their senses, fired me and paid the contract. I did plan on getting another job but that never happened.

That is truly beautiful.

 

[Koolau]

My company was acquired and with it, the new company acquired my employment contract that said as long as I behaved and didn't quit, they'd have to pay me seven figures if they fired me. I was also expensive salary-wise.

So they came up with a plan. They transferred me to our Paris office and a no-show job, betting that my wife would hate it and that I wouldn't tolerate a position that had zero responsibility. (I had intercepted an email stating "if his wife is anything like mine, she'll last two weeks in France"). Part of the deal was that they'd pay for an upscale apartment in the Left Bank.

What the idiots didn't know was that we had lived in Paris for a decade years earlier, spoke the language and had many friends there.

After two years of sitting at sidewalk cafés drinking wine, they came to their senses, fired me and paid the contract. I did plan on getting another job but that never happened.

Did you ever consider retirement in Paris? I loved Paris when I was there as a teen but I speak zero French. So I opted for "exotic" but English speaking (sort of) for our retirement spot.

 

[marko]

Did you ever consider retirement in Paris? I loved Paris when I was there as a teen but I speak zero French. So I opted for "exotic" but English speaking (sort of) for our retirement spot.

We had been considering it but unexpected family issues back home got in the way. On the whole, we'd take Kauai where I proposed 37 years ago...
Although I must say that Italy ranks #1.

 

[chemEguy]

Life seems to work that way. Something desperately needed, is swiftly withdrawn or lost. Something that can easily be forsaken, manages to endure. The less that one's in need, the more power one wields. Isn't it great to be in a position of power?

I'm in the camp, of "why voluntarily quit, when you can wait to be laid off". Severance, unemployment benefits and so on. If one needs a subsequent job, then sure, an involuntary exit can be devastating for future employment prospects. But if this is one's terminal job? Keep collecting those biweekly paychecks, that 401K matching, that annual-leave accrual... and when the hammer finally falls, the anvil is ready!

Correcto mundo

This is likely the last engineering job, unless I get bored at some point and look to pick up contract work. Which means I don’t have to panic apply to other jobs, don’t have to beg for good references by resigning voluntarily, and don’t have to worry about torching my manager on CC to human resources and could care less if it’s uncomfortable. I didn’t start this whole process.

But I will keep collecting paychecks for as long as I can.

 

[CO-guy]

My company was acquired and with it, the new company acquired my employment contract that said as long as I behaved and didn't quit, they'd have to pay me seven figures if they fired me. I was also expensive salary-wise.

So they came up with a plan. They transferred me to our Paris office and a no-show job, betting that my wife would hate it and that I wouldn't tolerate a position that had zero responsibility. (I had intercepted an email stating "if his wife is anything like mine, she'll last two weeks in France"). Part of the deal was that they'd pay for an upscale apartment in the Left Bank.

What the idiots didn't know was that we had lived in Paris for a decade years earlier, spoke the language and had many friends there.

After two years of sitting at sidewalk cafés drinking wine, they came to their senses, fired me and paid the contract. I did plan on getting another job but that never happened.

Jackpot! At least those years of 'suffering' through cafe life in Paris, came with a million dollar payday at the end.

 

[Lewis Clark]

My company was acquired and with it, the new company acquired my employment contract that said as long as I behaved and didn't quit, they'd have to pay me seven figures if they fired me. I was also expensive salary-wise.

So they came up with a plan. They transferred me to our Paris office and a no-show job, betting that my wife would hate it and that I wouldn't tolerate a position that had zero responsibility. (I had intercepted an email stating "if his wife is anything like mine, she'll last two weeks in France"). Part of the deal was that they'd pay for an upscale apartment in the Left Bank.

What the idiots didn't know was that we had lived in Paris for a decade years earlier, spoke the language and had many friends there.

After two years of sitting at sidewalk cafés drinking wine, they came to their senses, fired me and paid the contract. I did plan on getting another job but that never happened.

Marko, I have read this story in several threads and I must say it is simply glorious!

 

[kgtest]

Travelling for work sucks. I just did it for the first time on someone else's dime and they closed the boarding gates on me a minute before I had made it after speeding/sprinting/screaming as I ran to hold the gate after they rescheduled my business flight not one, not two, not three, but four times. Bumping it up the final time 2 hours which in the history of my air travel which is A LOT!

a $1250 coach ticket where they wanted me there 3hrs before departure to prevent this fun, when the trip to drive there would have been 4hrs. I was just shaking my head. There was probably like 2 people on that plane when the agents shut me out on likely was the highest ticketed coach fare/per mile in that entire airport terminal at the time for that little bit of distance lolololol.


Not to mention the stress. I was driving 90mph and I have 3 little kids at home, just trying to make this re-booked flight. It was futile and I knew it only to be shut out 1 minute prior hurt sooo bad.

Squeezing the trip in-between baseball practices and kids commitments. It's not worth it to me.


Explain that to the boss.

I looked silly.

 

[marko]

Jackpot! At least those years of 'suffering' through cafe life in Paris, came with a million dollar payday at the end.

Yeah. The no-show job consisted of dropping into the office once in a while and putting on a suit about every six weeks and flying to some outraged customer in Europe when the locals needed my "title" to calm things down. Good retirement practice.

The "intercepted email" part is even more hysterical: it was a drunken email sent at 1am. The imbeciles put my name in the "To" space instead of the "Subject" space. It was withdrawn a half hour later but by then it was automatically forwarded from company email to my personal email and stayed there.

 

[chemEguy]

Yeah. The no-show job consisted of dropping into the office once in a while and putting on a suit about every six weeks and flying to some outraged customer in Europe when the locals needed my "title" to calm things down. Good retirement practice.

The "intercepted email" part is even more hysterical: it was a drunken email sent at 1am. The imbeciles put my name in the "To" space instead of the "Subject" space. It was withdrawn a half hour later but by then it was automatically forwarded to my personal email and stayed there.

Nice. I also made sure a lot of key correspondence was in my personal email as of late as well.

 

[Buckeye]

Believe me, I’d love to share the details of my formal response because I think it was pretty darn good. I harvested a LOT of my manager’s prior words and feedback to use against him while I built out a timeline and narrative. Can’t say more. Eventually I’ll share. As I said, I figured I was toast anyway so I played all the cards.

When you said you got some "professional guidance on how to handle my 4 week evaluation period," does that mean you consulted an employment attorney? It's always good to have one before you need one! And if it happened to slip out that you had one on retainer, they might stop with the games. I worked with a guy who did exactly this. He was older than most of the others in the office and could see the hand-writing on the wall as to what typically happened. He started building his age discrimination case/defense a couple of years before they started to play games with him. He always did his job well and he had the documentation to prove it. He was still there when I left.

 

[CO-guy]

Yeah. The no-show job consisted of dropping into the office once in a while and putting on a suit about every six weeks and flying to some outraged customer in Europe when the locals needed my "title" to calm things down. Good retirement practice.

The "intercepted email" part is even more hysterical: it was a drunken email sent at 1am. The imbeciles put my name in the "To" space instead of the "Subject" space. It was withdrawn a half hour later but by then it was automatically forwarded from company email to my personal email and stayed there.

Hilarious! Sure it wasn't a Signal chat?

Reminds me of a meeting years ago when I still cared about my career. I was asked to speak to the c-suite folks for a few minutes about a project at the start of their meeting. The CEO walked in and railed, uninterrupted for 45 minutes about his plans to streamline several departments, including my own. He named specific people he wanted gone ---describing several of them as "cranky old f-ers"--- before he adjourned the meeting and abruptly left.

The VP that invited me tried to do damage control, so I played dumb. ("Sorry, I was so nervous about having to speak that I wasn't paying attention to anything that was going on.") I texted my two closest colleagues in my department as I walked out of the meeting and we made our own plan that afternoon during happy hour.

 

[target2019]

This thread is a interesting read.

When I was was placed on the unemployment line, I knew that my higher salary was not something the company wanted to preserve. In the end I was cut, with just 7 years or so of employment there. But I still had a higher skill level than most.

I really should have made time to talk with an unemployment lawyer when another round of layoffs were beginning. The entire process went on for years. In the end I just decided to accept the payout and unemployment (two bouts), and move on in my late 50's.

The younger guy (lower-grade level, same job) who survived all the cuts pulled a surprise, and left the company for a growing, younger staffing company. He became a manager, more dough, and so on. We actually worked in the same tech center for about 5 years, and frequently met up to walk the green grounds. So, lot's of fine memories are what I have!

 

[Keim]

I can see the allure of playing the game as OP is doing.
Life is short.
I think i wouldve exercised my FU money option.

 

[CO-guy]

Nice. I also made sure a lot of key correspondence was in my personal email as of late as well.

Another excellent piece of advice for folks in a similar situation.

I really should have made time to talk with an unemployment lawyer when another round of layoffs were beginning.

More solid advice. My employment attorney was a riding buddy before I briefly retained her services. She was incredibly generous, tracked calls, e-mails in 5-min increments, and only billed me once it summed to an hour. Her help was essential with how I worded specific communications with my former employer.

 

[REIJM]

I've appreciated reading through this @chemEguy.

As someone about 15 years your younger, this thread has resonated with me. I'm an engineer working for a megacorp, my wife makes more than I, and my megacorp always seems to be having changing strategies/priorities/re-orgs. Granted, our kids are younger (2 under 3 years old ATM).

Our plan is to invest as much as we can now, while prioritizing getting to spend time with the kids while they're young. Looking at the forecast and annual spend, we're targeting 46/47 for wanting to be done, because we don't want to deal with all the corporate BS you've outlined in your thread here.

Maybe one question I do have is, you stated your annual spend is about $170k, excluding college costs. What's driving the high annual spend? Still paying on an expensive mortgage (if so, how many years till that expense drops off), or do you just end up doing a lot of traveling now that the kids are in college?

Also, as an aside, your finances have certainly improved since you started this thread back in October!

 

[chemEguy]

I've appreciated reading through this @chemEguy.

As someone about 15 years your younger, this thread has resonated with me. I'm an engineer working for a megacorp, my wife makes more than I, and my megacorp always seems to be having changing strategies/priorities/re-orgs. Granted, our kids are younger (2 under 3 years old ATM).

Our plan is to invest as much as we can now, while prioritizing getting to spend time with the kids while they're young. Looking at the forecast and annual spend, we're targeting 46/47 for wanting to be done, because we don't want to deal with all the corporate BS you've outlined in your thread here.

Maybe one question I do have is, you stated your annual spend is about $170k, excluding college costs. What's driving the high annual spend? Still paying on an expensive mortgage (if so, how many years till that expense drops off), or do you just end up doing a lot of traveling now that the kids are in college?

Also, as an aside, your finances have certainly improved since you started this thread back in October!

Our mortgage is a very nice 1K per month. Our spend reflects travel, recreation, pet care, groceries, eating out…all the lifestyle creep that we allowed ourselves as our gross combined incomes pushed north of 400K. 170K on a 400K plus gross is not too terrible.

And my models assume no reduction in retirement.

Trust me, I’m looking back every day at that 23 year old engineer that did some Excel calcs in the office one afternoon and determined that if I began saving and investing in mutual funds right then and there, I would really be helping future me out.

Future me is present day me and would love to tell that kid he did good.

 

[chemEguy]

I guess the question I’m asking myself is, did I actually win this round since I was told all objectives were met and the plan was closed out? And is that a typical outcome?