Salt Typhoon - Chinese operatives hack telecom networks

[Chuckanut]

It seems that Chinese hackers have managed to hack into multiple Telecom providers using back door designed for domestic law enforcement to 'tap' the phones of potential bad guys.

Law enforcement is recommending that all important communications be encrypted.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12798

In early October 2024, media outlets reported that People’s
Republic of China (PRC) state-sponsored hackers infiltrated
United States telecommunications companies (including
internet service providers). The U.S. government has since
confirmed both the PRC’s actions and the existence of an
ongoing investigation into the hacks. This is not the first
time that the PRC has attacked the U.S. communications
sector—and reflects a pattern of targeting the sector for
both its role in enabling other sectors, and also the value of
the systems and data contained within the sector itself.

But, public reporting suggests
that the hackers may have targeted the systems used to
provide court-approved access to communication systems
used for investigations by law enforcement and intelligence
agencies. PRC actors may have sought access to these
systems and companies to gain access to presidential
candidate communications.

Salt Typhoon. These actors are reportedly
responsible for the compromise of U.S.
telecommunications companies reported
in October 2024. They are being
investigated for attacking
telecommunications companies, stealing
customer communications and law
enforcement information, and targeting
political figures

 

[AudiDudi]

If you build in a back door, it will get used and not necessarily by the desired end user.

 

[Chuckanut]

If you build in a back door, it will get used and not necessarily by the desired end user.

That is the problem the security experts have been warning about. It's not just the good guys with a proper court order who will be trying to use these back doors.

 

[RetMD21]

I have been recommending Signal to family but not getting much buy in.

 

[AmigaDude]

If you build in a back door, it will get used and not necessarily by the desired end user.

The industry has been saying that since well before Snowden. The good thing, for most of us, is that nobody with the resources really wants to see our messages.

 

[upupandaway]

I have been recommending Signal to family but not getting much buy in.

I have had similar difficulty getting the family on signal. My IT friends of course have no issue using it.

 

[sengsational]

I have been recommending Signal to family but not getting much buy in.

Signal was good for a while, but the app quit handling unencrypted SMS and it was too much of a pain to use then.

Maybe we need to send like $10 to each family member via Signal, and get them converted

 

[sengsational]

Of course the PRC doesn't care about fogies, but every carrier in the US is compromised with the wire tap backdoor they inserted for law enforcement. So they can hear voice calls and read SMS.... it's not just metadata. I hope our elected officials and military aren't blowing about sensitive stuff over phone calls, but I have to imagine they are.

I think this news highlights the clear need for independent third-party end-to-end encrypted video, voice, and text messaging systems. We're being told that the conversational content, not just connection metadata, of anything carried by our international and national telecommunications carriers can no longer be considered to be secure from eavesdropping by advanced persistent threat actors who want to know what's being said. -- Steve Gibson, Security Now Podcast

 

[JoeWras]

Of course the PRC doesn't care about fogies, but every carrier in the US is compromised with the wire tap backdoor they inserted for law enforcement. So they can hear voice calls and read SMS.... it's not just metadata. I hope our elected officials and military aren't blowing about sensitive stuff over phone calls, but I have to imagine they are.

Way, way, way back in the dark ages of the late 90s, I was in on some early meetings regarding "lawful intercept" on VOIP calls when they were writing the technical standards.

Many presenters (very smart people) were passionate that this intentional backdoor will be used for unlawful purposes.

They were right, of course. It also convinced me that I need to assume anything I email or say over a phone is potentially public.

 

[donheff]

I don't bother with Signal or other purportedly secure communications apps since I have no one to communicate with over them. The same goes for Tor for the most part, although I have used it in the past.

I assume anything I send out via text or email is insecure.

 

[Car-Guy]

If they tap my calls, they might think it's already been encrypted. I speak Texan.

 

[FIYes]

I have used WhatsApp when traveling internationally. It seems to be popular in Europe. Not many of my friends are on WhatsApp but I’m considering encouraging them to try it. I’ve not used signal so I’ll probably just stick with WhatsApp.

I’m sure nobody wants to read my texts, but I feel like it’s a foot in the door.

 

[folivier]

and I speak cajun

 

[Chuckanut]

You can draw a lot of conclusions by seeing what employees of certain agencies are saying and doing.

In WW2, German spies watched food delivery trucks. If they saw a big pickup in deliveries near a port they could be pretty sure a US NAVY troop ship was getting ready to set sail.

More recently, A secret military site in the middle of nowhere was exposed because the soldiers would go out running and record their runs on a running app. Why are all those people running around in the middle of that desert every morning?

 

[aja8888]

and I speak cajun

I have a friend from Texarkana and he speaks some wield combination of Cajun, Texan and hillbilly. I get about every third word.

 

[CaptTom]

Hey, if the Chinese are reading this, can you send over an order of Kung Pau chicken and a side of fried rice? Thanks!!

 

[JoeWras]

I have a friend from Texarkana and he speaks some wield combination of Cajun, Texan and hillbilly. I get about every third word.

Ya'll are joking about this, but the Army used native American language speakers for wartime communications. "Code Talkers" I believe they were called. It was very effective.

 

[AudiDudi]

Ya'll are joking about this, but the Army used native American language speakers for wartime communications. "Code Talkers" I believe they were called. It was very effective.

The history of the Navajo code talkers is quite remarkable. The museum in northern AZ is worth a visit. The last one died just over 10 yrs ago.

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/n/code-talkers.html

 

[harley]

I wonder what Phil Zimmerman is thinking about all of this, after spending 5 years or so in court vs. the FBI regarding his encryption program (PGP). They were so adamant that he build back doors and that encryption couldn't be exported, and here they are telling everybody to use it now. I even bought a copy of his book back in the day where he showed the open source code for PGP so anyone could build their own, since books were protected by the First Amendment, even though code (at the time) wasn't.

Having said that, I'm not using any encryption on my text messages, even though I'm an Android user and everyone else I know used an iPhone. So I'm at risk. But I never text sensitive information. I use email or voice calls for that. I probably should tighten up my texting security, but my messages are so boring and uninformative that I might continue as is just to be part of the noise that keeps them from finding anything useful.

 

[skipro33]

I wonder why this isn't considered an attack on the.united states by a foreign enemy and counter attack?

 

[Sunset]

I wonder why this isn't considered an attack on the.united states by a foreign enemy and counter attack?

who says we don't ? or do you mean launch ICBM's ?

 

[skipro33]

who says we don't ? or do you mean launch ICBM's ?

Not that drastic, but I understand that we can pinpoint the buildings hacks come from, so a surgical strike on those might be warranted. The Chinese have been hacking government computers since at least 2015, when it was widely reported on the news.
Having worked on the western states power grid, I know they've at least tried to hack our systems on the West Coast.

 

[Pellice]

Spy vs. Spy (memory holed ) has become a reality.

 

[Chuckanut]

Perhaps as an extension to this subject this article about a popular router made in China appeared today from the WSJ:

https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/us-ban-china-router-tp-link-systems-7d7507e6?mod=hp_lead_pos3

Investigators at the Commerce, Defense and Justice departments have opened their own probes into the company, and authorities could ban the sale of TP-Link routers in the U.S. next year, according to people familiar with the matter.

An analysis from Microsoft published in October found that a Chinese hacking entity maintains a large network of compromised network devices mostly comprising thousands of TP-Link routers. The network has been used by numerous Chinese actors to launch cyberattacks. These actors have gone after Western targets including think tanks, government organizations, nongovernment organizations and Defense Department suppliers.

I have no idea if these routers contain any serious threat to security. I am glad our government is waking up to the possibilities of a threat. We will have to wait to see what comes from the investigations.

If you have a router under your control make sure it's being routinely updated. If you have a router that is not being updated, you might want to consider getting a newer one from a company that takes security updates seriously.

 

[indiajust]

TLA agencies famously interdicted Cisco switch delivery overseas and swapped out chips and cards without manufacturer permission or knowledge. Was not discovered until OEM repairs detected non OEM pcb's and chipsets during maintenance intervals. UPS and FedEx drivers have complained since 90's about unlisted backtoback drop/retrieve of computer hardware to random residential addresses so that compromised hardware and software can be installed and shipped next morning without shipper or receiver being able to trace the shipping records to reveal the deception. Chip level hard coded bugs and viruses in printers and memory sticks as well.

Standard protocol within the empire is to inflate the benefits, wave flag, invoke patriotic emotions, disperse blame to china/russia. Therefore, the default position is whenever this behavior is witnessed, TLA's have been doing for decades, got caught, and now in an obfuscating misdirect campaign.

The relevant analogy for use of signal/telegram/pgp/tor/vpn/tutanota... I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you.

China did not tap Merkel's phone. Empire's gonna empire. I'm old enough to remember the subterfuge around Tonkin Bay resolution, cointelpro, nixons plumbers, ... pick your era. We are just exiting the massive propaganda and disinformation campaigns of the last 4 years with worldwide info suppression/deprecation of non-empire narratives.

The social animal has been known to lie to get ahead and stay ahead. This is a game theory Red Queen situation, running faster just to stay in one place.

Electronic Frontier Foundation These folks cover the basics, most particularly scaling your approach to match the risk. ie no one takes out expensive insurance policies on a 1974 Vega.

I welcome those who maintain blithe disregard to abandon locks, keys, and defensive weapons. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear! Low hanging fruit.