Sister In Law Spending Issues

[PatrickA5]

I wonder if anybody else has had this issue and what (if anything) can be done about it.

Some background:

DW's only sister has early onset Alzheimer's. She is 65 and is still in pretty good mental condition, but has a few other health issues. She has been on disability for the last 20 years and will switch over to regular SS in a couple of years. Up until a receiving an inheritance three years ago, she had no money. The inheritance ($850K) was life-changing for her. She bought a house, new car, etc. She's down to around $400K.

DW has POA, Agent Authority for her Fidelity accounts, is joint on her checking and savings accounts, etc. I handle her investments, perform transfers, prepare taxes, etc. This kind of financial stuff she couldn't do on her own and she is thankful for us being able to help her in this way.

The problem: over the last few months, she seems to have developed a spending problem. She paved half of her backyard ($20K), bought a hot tub ($14K) and bought countless items from Amazon - all for a party that she ended up not having. Over the last couple of weeks, she has bought probably 30 items from Amazon ($3K). Last night she spent $600 on vitamins that are supposed to cure her Alzheimer's. The spending seems to be getting worse.

Anyone experienced anything similar with a loved one? I know that there really isn't anything that we can do to force her to stop. Afterall, it IS her money. But, she will eventually need long term care and it would be nice if she had enough left over to at least qualify for something decent in the beginning.

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Kings over Queens]

Just thinking out loud, does Amazon have any parental type controls?

Perhaps a very low limit credit card?

Short of striping her of access to fund, it seems like you need a speed bump to slow her down.

Sounds like a terrible situation. I'm sorry you are having to deal with it.

 

[PatrickA5]

Just thinking out loud, does Amazon have any parental type controls?

Perhaps a very low limit credit card?

Short of striping her of access to fund, it seems like you need a speed bump to slow her down.

Sounds like a terrible situation. I'm sorry you are having to deal with it.

She has one credit card with a $4,000 limit. She goes over every month. I set it up to autopay, so she's not paying interest. She wants to get another credit card, but since I would have to be the one to apply for it (for her), she isn't getting one. I review her online charges and have had to dispute numerous fraud charges over the years, not to mention the things she buys off of Facebook Marketplace that are obvious scams.

 

[Kings over Queens]

She has one credit card with a $4,000 limit. She goes over every month. I set it up to autopay, so she's not paying interest. She wants to get another credit card, but since I would have to be the one to apply for it (for her), she isn't getting one. I review her online charges and have had to dispute numerous fraud charges over the years, not to mention the things she buys off of Facebook Marketplace that are obvious scams.

I was thinking much lower, like $100.

And Amazon does have parental controls for purchases.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GB8P5MQSYFYHPCQ5

 

[PatrickA5]

Thanks, I'll look into.

 

[youbet]

OP:

Have you considered applying for guardianship?

 

[Aerides]

Can you go with her to her doctor? The behavior could indicate a worsening of her condition, and more effects than just spending.

 

[pb4uski]

Does she recognize that she has a spending problem? Does she understand the need to keep some money available for LTC?

 

[jollystomper]

We have friends in their late 70s where the husband, suffering from dementia, has started doing something similar in the last year. They planned well and have a comfortable retirement, but his dementia has caused him to go on "streaks" insisting they need stuff and start buying all kinds of things online. Their solution so far has been to keep him away from internet access as best as possible. His wife took away his computer, under the guise of his son-in-law needed to fix it. I think they also "broke" his smartphone and got him a non-smart cell phone. He has called me on occasion asking if I can help his son-in-law repair his computer.

 

[Al18]

Spending does not sound unreasonable to me. Let it go.

 

[imjustawarrior]

Have you talked to her about it?

Maybe she realizes she doesn't have much longer to enjoy life?

 

[EastWest Gal]

Guardianship and access to less money. Also, aren't purchases denied if you go over your credit limit? New car...is it safe for her to drive?

 

[bada bing]

Although not an answer for your SIL, this outlines my #1 reason to delay SS. Age related decline in management. All of my grandparents and both parents made it past 90, but 4 of the 6 had moderate to severe mental decline in the last couple years.

You might consider locking in a spending rate with some or all of the remaining money. Buy a MYGA or period certain SPIA. Take away her credit card and replace with a debit card with no overdraft protection enabled. If her health outlook was better a life + period certain annuity would be an option.

 

[youbet]

Regarding guardianship, if you pursue this route be sure that financial arrangements are such that you or your DW will never, in any circumstances, inherit a penny. Otherwise the annual guardianship court filings become difficult with you having to prove none, absolutely none, of your maneuvers with her stash could possibly benefit you.

The major difficulty you face is that if she were of totally sound mind and yet had the same spending habits she expresses today (her sound-mind choice), that's her business and you need to bow out. But if her "dementia" is the cause of her excess spending and poor planning, then you have grounds to step in, if you can get court approval. It's a tough situation.

 

[homestead]

You can request a lower credit limit on her credit card by contacting the card issuer.

 

[aja8888]

My 47 year old son-in-law has been diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's and he is not allowed to drive anymore due to liability concerns. What is she doing with a new car?

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Doesn’t disability automatically switch to social security at 65?

Try and look at her spending from an outsiders perspective.
$20,000 for pavement that she wanted doesn’t sound bad at all. $14,000 for a hot tub- lots of people do that. Is it sitting on the new pavement?
Amazon purchases don’t seem out of line to me.
You not agreeing with her spending doesn’t make it wrong and I highly doubt that you could get guardianship based on what you’ve said here.
I was a director for a health and human services department which included the public guardian office and adult protective services. Guardianship is typically a high bar.

 

[youbet]

You can request a lower credit limit on her credit card by contacting the card issuer.

Does OP have the legal authority to do that?

 

[Al18]

At least one other person agrees with me.

I think you, your wife and sister in law should sit down with a financial planner and jointly put together a detailed plan on how she’s going to pay for the house, utilities, maintenance along with a monthly spending plan for everything else. Probably a good idea to set aside an amount for unplanned items. I think everyone will be much happier once the plan is written down.

 

[youbet]

My 47 year old son-in-law has been diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's and he is not allowed to drive anymore due to liability concerns. What is she doing with a new car?

If her driving privileges have not been revoked, I assume she's driving her new car. Your SIL's issues are unrelated.

 

[aja8888]

If her driving privileges have not been revoked, I assume she's driving her new car. Your SIL's issues are unrelated.

If she is still driving with Alzheimer's, good luck, and maybe they should check their states rules on whether or not they allow it and if they do, what testing is required.

 

[PatrickA5]

OP:

Have you considered applying for guardianship?

She is not very far along in her Alzheimer's. In fact, she drove out of town today to meet a friend. For the most part, you can't tell there is a memory problem, so I would think it would be much too early to try anything like that.

 

[PatrickA5]

Can you go with her to her doctor? The behavior could indicate a worsening of her condition, and more effects than just spending.

DW goes to all of her doctor's appointments, including the doctor that diagnosed her Alzheimer's.

 

[PatrickA5]

Does she recognize that she has a spending problem? Does she understand the need to keep some money available for LTC?

She doesn't know she has a spending problem. I think some of it is depression and buying things provide some comfort. It has gotten worse since she got the diagnosis. We've told her that she needs money down the road for some help. She doesn't like to hear either of us say anything like that, so we rarely do.

 

[PatrickA5]

Have you talked to her about it?

Maybe she realizes she doesn't have much longer to enjoy life?

Yes, we've talked to her about it. And you're right, she realizes (somewhat) what the future holds. Personally, I wished she hadn't gotten tested this early - but that is a whole different topic.