Some thoughts on Fire Safety in our communities. Please share yours.

[pacergal]

The map is interesting, has our area in low risk.
That being said, a couple years ago, we were next on the list to be evacuated, and lived for several weeks with smokey, cloudy skies.
Wildfires are just that, WILD. Sometimes, you never know their next direction, nor what the weather will do to expand it.
We have removed most of the overgrown trees in our yard, have minimal vegetation close to the house.

 

[Koolau]

The map is interesting, has our area in low risk.
That being said, a couple years ago, we were next on the list to be evacuated, and lived for several weeks with smokey, cloudy skies.
Wildfires are just that, WILD. Sometimes, you never know their next direction, nor what the weather will do to expand it.
We have removed most of the overgrown trees in our yard, have minimal vegetation close to the house.

What I've always heard (especially in the post-mortem of major fires) is that an accumulation of years worth of dead brush is usually the biggest culprit but I'm no expert. Certainly, that was known before the Lahina Maui fires, but I'm guessing those who could have dealt with it believed the problem too costly to deal with.

The expression "A penny's worth of prevention is worth a pound of cure" comes to mind.

 

[imjustawarrior]

I live in a city, but I have still seen flames from my front porch. We also get ash that drops in the neighborhood. I use to think our city would be defended properly until the Marshal fire a few years ago. Once there are 100 MPH winds, all bets are off. I don't think I could do anything to prepare for that except to evacuate quickly. The wind is the big wild card.

 

[Zona]

Interesting opinion piece from an Australian in todays NYT (I think I set this as a gift article so should be no paywall). The writer talks about how in general the Aussies consider fire more of an "everyone" problem than a "government" problem. A good quote "Australians have come to accept that preparedness involves contribution and sacrifice even at the granular level of a household. Your fire is everyone’s fire when it’s spreading at approximately 75 miles an hour or leaving burned and screaming koalas in its wake."

We live bordering an open space natural preserve. Our community HOA has recently started sending out some feelers to see if residents would be interested in helping our community become a "Firewise Community". Even though I already volunteer as much as I have time for (in the actual preserve), I'm tempted to join the effort.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

I live in a city, but I have still seen flames from my front porch. We also get ash that drops in the neighborhood. I use to think our city would be defended properly until the Marshal fire a few years ago. Once there are 100 MPH winds, all bets are off. I don't think I could do anything to prepare for that except to evacuate quickly. The wind is the big wild card.

There are some things you might be able to do. Check out some of the videos I provided in prior post. There are tons more out there. Flying embers are a big concern when trying to protect your home. The more videos I watch on the subject the less I think builders cared at all when building our homes. Roof vents should all be protected with proper sized metal screening to keep embers from entering our homes and catching fire. All homes should have been built with fire resistant siding and roofing materials.
If we all try to do our part perhaps we could slow the spread of fire so firefighters have a better chance to stop the fire.

 

[imjustawarrior]

There are some things you might be able to do. Check out some of the videos I provided in prior post. There are tons more out there. Flying embers are a big concern when trying to protect your home. The more videos I watch on the subject the less I think builders cared at all when building our homes. Roof vents should all be protected with proper sized metal screening to keep embers from entering our homes and catching fire. All homes should have been built with fire resistant siding and roofing materials.
If we all try to do our part perhaps we could slow the spread of fire so firefighters have a better chance to stop the fire.

I agree there are probably some things to do for the normal run of the mill stuff, but the big threat is when there are strong winds. In that case, all one can do is pray.

 

[Sunset]

While we live in a low fire risk area, today was windy and low humidity, so we got a fire warning on the internet. Seems folks are more alert for now.

 

[Koolau]

Our community HOA has recently started sending out some feelers to see if residents would be interested in helping our community become a "Firewise Community". Even though I already volunteer as much as I have time for (in the actual preserve), I'm tempted to join the effort.

Practically speaking, what does that mean? What would you be doing "in the actual preserve?"

 

[folivier]

Our mountain cabin is in a low risk area according to that map. Our community is Firewise and has a volunteer fire dept. of which DW and I are members. Unfortunately most of us are retirees so that limits our response to a wildfire. Our plan if a cabin catches fire is to keep it from spreading and hope the closest fire depts. can get here quickly. They're an hour away. Our county has a fire mitigation plan for new construction which should help.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Our mountain cabin is in a low risk area according to that map. Our community is Firewise and has a volunteer fire dept. of which DW and I are members. Unfortunately most of us are retirees so that limits our response to a wildfire. Our plan if a cabin catches fire is to keep it from spreading and hope the closest fire depts. can get here quickly. They're an hour away. Our county has a fire mitigation plan for new construction which should help.

Do you know how to get something like the firewise program started. Should we reach out to our HOA first? Should we go door to door or I was thinking contact local newspaper or use a site like nextdoor to put feelers out? Unfortunately the emails I sent to our local firewise contacts have not been very fruitful so far.
I was watching one video on the subject of wildfires and they said how do you know when it's time to evacuate? You probably already should have.....safer to have errored on the side caution and get out before most people do and have to deal with road jams and being surrounded by flames as you attempt to get away. Best case scenario is you go home afterwards and everything is ok. Worst case is you we're too late getting out and .......

 

[engineernerd]

I looked at that FEMA risk map, and the risk index isn't what you'd expect. It's not how high the risk of a fire is.

It's a composite of Expected Annual Loss (which must include $$$ at risk in addition to actual risk of fire), Social Vulnerability, and Community Resilience.

To get an idea of fire risk you have to select "Expected Annual Loss" instead of "Risk Index" and look at the Frequency number.

You also have to bear in mind that the Frequency is based on historical data, and right now the idea that the future will resemble the past is not something to rely on.

A wildland firefighting official at the Firewise event I attended a couple of years ago told me things are changing. He described an experience he'd had where a fire was approaching an area of deciduous vegetation of a type that had always caused fires to fizzle out before, and thought to himself, now we can relax, but the fire just burned right through without even slowing down.

 

[engineernerd]

I think everyone should make sure you have a copy of your actual homeowner's insurance policy (including all riders), and spend some time carefully and unhurriedly reading through it, making sure you understand what it says and what the implications might be after a wildfire (or any other natural disaster).

I have Allstate, and my policy says they initially pay out the Actual Cash Value. The conditions under which they then pay the rest include my rebuilding or buying a different home within 6 months of the ACV payout.

Even in the best of circumstances just getting a building permit to START construction in my area takes longer than that! So basically I have to buy a different house. After a major natural disaster that destroyed many homes in my area, I'd expect to have to buy my different house in a different area of the country.

 

[Zona]

Practically speaking, what does that mean? What would you be doing "in the actual preserve?"

There's a team of about 600 volunteer stewards that do a number of things: some patrol the 180miles of trails (it's a 30,000 acre preserve), assisting hikers with maps and water; others greet hikers at the trailhead & make sure they have water; there's a team that maintains the trails when damaged; others remove invasive species like buffelgrass (very fire-prone!); there's ongoing citizen science projects studying the plants & animals long-term; there's also a team that takes schoolkids on educational hikes and probably other teams that do other things I don't even know about. I mostly work on the long-term science stuff and help hikers by giving directions, answering questions, and handing out water.

There have been a few fires in the preserve during its history, but nothing like what was seen in LA (*knock wood*). Every fourth of July, Fire Watch teams staff the trailheads until 9pm and turn people away (the preserve is closed at noon that day to prevent people from the temptation to set off fireworks in an extremely sensitive area).

 

[Koolau]

There's a team of about 600 volunteer stewards that do a number of things: some patrol the 180miles of trails (it's a 30,000 acre preserve), assisting hikers with maps and water; others greet hikers at the trailhead & make sure they have water; there's a team that maintains the trails when damaged; others remove invasive species like buffelgrass (very fire-prone!); there's ongoing citizen science projects studying the plants & animals long-term; there's also a team that takes schoolkids on educational hikes and probably other teams that do other things I don't even know about. I mostly work on the long-term science stuff and help hikers by giving directions, answering questions, and handing out water.

There have been a few fires in the preserve during its history, but nothing like what was seen in LA (*knock wood*). Every fourth of July, Fire Watch teams staff the trailheads until 9pm and turn people away (the preserve is closed at noon that day to prevent people from the temptation to set off fireworks in an extremely sensitive area).

Thanks. I wondered if part of the practice was to remove excess brush, downed/dead trees, etc.

 

[Zona]

Thanks. I wondered if part of the practice was to remove excess brush, downed/dead trees, etc.

Downed trees and saguaros are moved off the trails for the public safety but not completely removed as they provide natural habitat even when dead. The only species that we try to remove are non-native invasives like buffelgrass, fountain grass, stinknet/globe chamomile and a few others but it's an uphill battle because they are very prolific.

 

[Koolau]

Downed trees and saguaros are moved off the trails for the public safety but not completely removed as they provide natural habitat even when dead. The only species that we try to remove are non-native invasives like buffelgrass, fountain grass, stinknet/globe chamomile and a few others but it's an uphill battle because they are very prolific.

Yeah, we have a huge issue with invasive species (animal but especially plant) here in the Islands. Dealing with the issue has been hit and miss. Probably contributed to the Lahina Maui fires. That post-mortem is still going on.

Good on you for what you are doing in your area!

 

[badatmath]

Neighbor and I called the fire department when the guy behind us built a large uncontained fire in the middle of his yard and threw gasoline or similiar at it. . . he wanted to burn trash. . . . Flames were over our block wall in height so IDK 5-6 feet at least. . . They came and told him he'd have to put it out. . .

 

[Koolau]

Neighbor and I called the fire department when the guy behind us built a large uncontained fire in the middle of his yard and threw gasoline or similiar at it. . . he wanted to burn trash. . . . Flames were over our block wall in height so IDK 5-6 feet at least. . . They came and told him he'd have to put it out. . .

I'm surprised that any municipality still allows any open burning - of any size. Growing up, we burned everything but our city outlawed the practice 60+ years ago.

 

[badatmath]

I'm surprised that any municipality still allows any open burning - of any size. Growing up, we burned everything but our city outlawed the practice 60+ years ago.

"Law abiding" people seem a little scare when you live in a large city with overworked and understaffed police/fire/etc. . .

 

[engineernerd]

Remembered coming across this recently...everyone might want to ask their local fire department how much of their equipment is fully functional vs. "in the shop," and whether affordability issues have caused them in recent years to cut back on anything they normally would have kept more of.

Did a Private Equity Fire Truck Roll-Up Worsen the L.A. Fires?

During the LA fires, dozens of fire trucks sat in the boneyard, waiting for repairs the city couldn't afford. Why? A private equity roll-up made replacing and repairing those trucks much pricier.

www.thebignewsletter.com

The link is to Matt Stoller's Substack about monopolies and antitrust, and discusses skyrocketing prices and slow order fulfillment for fire trucks and other firefighting equipment due to consolidation in the industry.

It says more than 100 of LAFD's 183 fire trucks were out of service during the big fires!

 

[Spock]

Eons ago I was taking a tech class in Silicon Valley. During breaks the instructors were small talking and complaining about a new "rule" (dunno if it was zoning ordinance or what) that would require them to put in 8000gal of water storage on their property. They were in shock as to where they were supposed to put a semi tanker truck sized water tank on their lot.
I said "so put in a pool". Their mouths gaped open.

In the last week my utoob feed is full of 10yr+ old videos of people keeping a trash pump, hoses and some sprinkler heads on small dolly to wheel out... sort of like an oversized fire extinguisher... a new twist is to route any gutters/downspouts/run-off back into the pool to "recycle" most of the spray so the pool doesn't run dry before the fire hits.

It seems like such a preventable waste to see pictures of homes burned to the ground with a full swimming pool in the backyard.

One guy puts a 275ish gallon IBC tote in the back of his pickup truck with a gas powered pump and patrols the neighborhood to put out small fires before they become big fires.

 

[engineernerd]

It seems like such a preventable waste to see pictures of homes burned to the ground with a full swimming pool in the backyard.

Yeah, but these new megafires are SCARY. Probably not everybody has the courage to stay behind to fight for their homes. If something goes wrong you could burn to death.

Wish I could remember who, but someone rich and famous apparently had an AUTOMATED sprinkler system set up on his roof in L.A. or whichever SoCal city it was in. Not sure if his home came through OK because of that or not, the photo showed all the houses on his street looking pretty much OK.

 

[Spock]

Yeah, but these new megafires are SCARY. Probably not everybody has the courage to stay behind to fight for their homes. If something goes wrong you could burn to death.

Wish I could remember who, but someone rich and famous apparently had an AUTOMATED sprinkler system set up on his roof in L.A. or whichever SoCal city it was in. Not sure if his home came through OK because of that or not, the photo showed all the houses on his street looking pretty much OK.

The one on utoob from the LA fire says they ran it for 5 hours before evacuating and left it will a full tank of gas when they left.

 

[Koolau]

"Law abiding" people seem a little scare when you live in a large city with overworked and understaffed police/fire/etc. . .

Certainly true regarding fireworks in my adopted city.

In my "old" city, my dad got warned that next time he open-burned, he would be fined. He quit open-burning. Heh, heh, I guess he was law-abiding because it would cost too much not to be.

He had to pay a small fortune for commercial trash pick up from then on.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, but these new megafires are SCARY. Probably not everybody has the courage to stay behind to fight for their homes. If something goes wrong you could burn to death.

Wish I could remember who, but someone rich and famous apparently had an AUTOMATED sprinkler system set up on his roof in L.A. or whichever SoCal city it was in. Not sure if his home came through OK because of that or not, the photo showed all the houses on his street looking pretty much OK.

I saw a quick scene on TV showing what looked like lawn sprinklers mounted on someone's roof. Don't know if it was effective but it certainly made sense. Enough water to prevent embers from torching your house would be so much better than the deluge it would require to put out a house on fire once the fire begins. This assumes that one has removed most of the flammable materials around the house.

If one had a swimming pool on premises, a reliable generator to operate a pump, one could protect one's house as the fire goes beyond the house.

No idea if it would be practical (effective) but seems worth a try once everyone gets their houses rebuilt.