Space Shuttle again

[Texas Proud]

OK... my second thread on the Space Shuttle...

OK... I can see giving the one with the most miles to the Smithsonian....

I can see giving one to Florida Space Port...

In a very small way, I can see LA getting one, but that is more of a stretch for me...

But why New York There is no connection with the program... I would have though that Houston would get one before LA or NY...

Then again... from the pics I saw, the Houston bid seemed kind of lame....

NASA Gives Space Shuttles to Smithsonian and Museums in Calif., Florida and NYC | NASA Space Shuttles & Space Shuttle Retirement | Final Shuttle Missions, 30 Years of Space Shuttle Missions | Space.com

"
Space shuttle Discovery, NASA's oldest remaining orbiter and the world's most flown spacecraft, will be displayed by the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum at its Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center near Dulles International Airport.
The shuttle Endeavour, which will launch on its own final mission later this month, will be given to the California Science Center, a department of the State of California, in Los Angeles.
Shuttle Atlantis will remain in Florida to be exhibited at the spaceport's official visitor complex after launching on the 135th and last mission of NASA's shuttle program in late June.
Bolden also announced that the atmospheric test orbiter Enterprise, which has belonged to the Smithsonian since 1982 and has been on display at the Udvar-Hazy Center since 2003, will be transferred to the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum, a converted aircraft carrier docked to a pier in New York City, to make way for Discovery to enter the national collection."

 

[Rustic23]

The Smithsonian, no brainer, Space Center the same. LA, put one on the west coast. NY, put one where lots of people will see it. I have not seen the count of foreigners vacationing in NY, but I'll bet it is high. From the geographical standpoint, Houston, would also be a good bet.

Now if you want to look at the politics that may have been in play with the decision, then LA, FL, and NY were no brainers, and not giving one to TX was just as much a no brainer.

 

[Texas Proud]

The Smithsonian, no brainer, Space Center the same. LA, put one on the west coast. NY, put one where lots of people will see it. I have not seen the count of foreigners vacationing in NY, but I'll bet it is high. From the geographical standpoint, Houston, would also be a good bet.

Now if you want to look at the politics that may have been in play with the decision, then LA, FL, and NY were no brainers, and not giving one to TX was just as much a no brainer.

Yea... I think politics won on this one... but I think that one at Space Center Houston where people come to look at NASA and Mission Contol etc. has more links to the space agency than a dock in NYC... I also wonder how many people attend the space center compared to the NY museum... it doesn't matter how many people visit NY if they are not visiting the museum where it is housed....

 

[samclem]

The National Museum of the United States Air Force at Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton had hoped to get one, and was planning a very nice area for it. The USAF was tightly tied to the space shuttle (it was a technological outgrowth of the earlier USAF Dyna-Soar program, USAF support probably saved the program when it was on the ropes, and more astronauts came from the USAF than anywhere else).

While I would have liked to see one in Dayton, I'm not heartbroken. Wherever they go, I hope the shuttles are displayed in a way that allows visitors to see the flight deck up close, see the cargo bay, see how the systems functioned, etc. If all folks can see is the outside, the displays will be far less interesting, impressive, and educational.

 

[JOHNNIE36]

Yea... I think politics won on this one... but I think that one at Space Center Houston where people come to look at NASA and Mission Contol etc. has more links to the space agency than a dock in NYC... I also wonder how many people attend the space center compared to the NY museum... it doesn't matter how many people visit NY if they are not visiting the museum where it is housed....

Just came back from a brief trip to Houston with my son to pick up a boat he purchased. We transferred ownership at the Hilton hotel which is very close to the Johnson Space Center. What better place (besides Cape Kennedy) for one of the space shuttles. I'll always remember those words,
"Discovery, this is Houston".

 

[FIREd]

A lot of people had hoped that the US space and Rocket Center on the Marshall Space Flight Center here in Huntsville, AL would get one, since this was the birthplace of the US space program. But I've heard the city didn't have the resources to pull it off. We will get a shuttle orbital maneuvering engine instead, which is befitting given the center's contribution to the shuttle's propulsion system.

 

[soupcxan]

Makes no sense to have 3 on the east coast, one on the west, and none in the middle. NYC has absolutely no connection to the space program, and anyone in NYC who wanted to see the shuttle could've hopped on the train for a quick ride to DC.

Should've been DC (Smithsonian), FL, Houston, and LA.

 

[LOL!]

I really like the decisions. Houston doesn't need a shuttle. They have plenty of other stuff that no one goes to see anyways. Yep, I've been to the Johnson Space Center a couple of times and it is pretty lame. It's biggest attraction is the ball pit / jungle gym which every McDonalds has. My guess is that JOHNNIE36 picked up a boat and didn't even visit the JSC, 'nuff said.

New York is a great place because it is probably the most visited city in the US for overseas visitors.

 

[dex]

One shuttle should have been auctioned off to artists for 4 months at a time and then have it tour.
- Christo could have wrapped it.
- JK187 could have spray painted it
- A modern artist could have dropped paint on it
- Martha Stewart could have redesigned it

The money received would have gone to the space program.

 

[HFWR]

One shuttle should have been auctioned off to artists for 4 months at a time and then have it tour.
- Christo could have wrapped it.
- JK187 could have spray painted it
- A modern artist could have dropped paint on it
- Martha Stewart could have redesigned it

The money received would have gone to the space program.

I say turn LA Custom loose on it. Dropped, chopped, with some fly graphics...

 

[Texas Proud]

Well, from a visitor basis I would have to agree that NY is better than Houston.... see below... but I also think the same that one in Washington is 'close enough'... I did not check out some of the other sites that have been posted.... but I would bet their annual attendance is a bit lower...

Something I heard today on the radio (but have not confirmed) is that they are 'robbing' (the radios word) JSC.... seems that a lot of simulators etc. that are there now are being moved to other locations and museums...


Ranked as one of Texas’ top tourist attractions with more than 750,000 visitors each year, Space Center Houston serves as the public window on the world’s most exciting scientific initiative … the American space program.


Since 1982, the Intrepid has become a national icon. More than 915,000 people visit each year.

Could not find a current number for the California Science Center, but it looks like it is over 1.3 million per year

 

[Texas Proud]

Just as a side comment.... I have been to 4 of the places we are talking... Florida, Washington, NY and Houston.

Washington is hands down the best....

Florida is second best....

Houston is a bit lame... I would have liked it to be better than what we have... pretty small etc.

The Intrepid was interesting, but only seeing the real planes, ships etc... most everything else was lame.... my sister even found an error on one of the displays on a jet that was used during the Vietnam war (her DH had worked on them on an aircraft carrier)... when she pointed it out to one of the 'managers', he seemed not to care....


Looking at the pics for the two locations, NY did have a better pitch... so in the end I have to say they won it with a better presentation even with no connection to the program....

 

[LOL!]

As a side comment, I have lived in/near Houston for more than 25 years. I also lived in a suburb of NYC, in a suburb of Washington, DC, and at Wright Patterson AFB in Dayton, Ohio.

Frankly, Houston has no real tourist attractions and its unlikely that it ever will. Yes, it has nice museums, nice pro sports teams, a great rodeo, and a ball pit at the Johnson Space Center, but the San Jacinto monument is not the Statue of Liberty and the weather is not like in San Diego.

The ranking of JSC as a "top tourist attraction" is simply because there is nothing else here. When visitors come, we have the ol' "What should we see?" question. Well, what should we see? We saw the ball pit at the JSC last time and the time before that.

The connection of the Intrepid is that this ship used to recover astronauts from the ocean.

To say that DC is close enough to NY is not a good argument. DC is close enough to Houston as well. NY is close enough to Houston as well. The Houston airports are outstanding with cheap parking, cheap airfares, and well connected to the entire world.

I am scheduled for a VIP tour of Cape Canaveral later this year. I'll be able to comment on Florida after that.

 

[rescueme]

NYC has absolutely no connection to the space program, and anyone in NYC who wanted to see the shuttle could've hopped on the train for a quick ride to DC.

That's why they are only getting a "test shuttle", that has never been in space ...

BTW, I'll go see the "faux shuttle" at the pier (I've been there more than once). No train in my area (I'll have to drive or take the bus). For me, D.C. is not a "quick ride" (nor for many of the tourists that come to NYC from around the world, including the cruise boats on the Hudson that pass right in front of the pier containing the display (on the Carnival, Crystal, Cunard), as well as foreign carriers (Adia - German cruise line, entered the terminal the same time as we did, last year - on NCL).

If a "local" like me will spend the $$ to get there/pay the ticket, I'm sure a lot of "out of towner's" will do the same...

 

[SunsetSail]

In a very small way, I can see LA getting one, but that is more of a stretch for me...

I tend to agree with your comments except for this one. Discovery was built in Palmdale (just North of LA), Edwards was a primary landing site, major components were manufactured in So Cal.

 

[Texas Proud]

I tend to agree with your comments except for this one. Discovery was built in Palmdale (just North of LA), Edwards was a primary landing site, major components were manufactured in So Cal.

You can see that I have revised my first opinion with more research....


I bet major components were manufactured in many states... that is how politics work... but if you think 'space program', what are the two sites you think of first

Me, Florida where they are launched and Houston where all space flight is handled.... for the life of me a third place does not jump to my mind.... not trying to start an argument with this comment... just my thinking...

 

[Goonie]

I was hoping one would make it to the Adler Planetarium in Chicago, but knew there was never a chance. However, I'm quite happy that KSC is getting one, after all that's pretty much been their home for all these years. KSC is only about an hour drive from where we stay when we're in Florida, so we'll definitely go there again to see the shuttle on display!

I would have preferred that the Discovery be left at KSC, since it was the one that we watched blast-off when we were there in February. But I also realize why it's heading to the Smithsonian. I'm just glad that they are preserving things like this, instead of 'parting it out' or selling it for scrap.

 

[SunsetSail]

You can see that I have revised my first opinion with more research....


I bet major components were manufactured in many states... that is how politics work... but if you think 'space program', what are the two sites you think of first

Me, Florida where they are launched and Houston where all space flight is handled.... for the life of me a third place does not jump to my mind.... not trying to start an argument with this comment... just my thinking...

I was about to edit my response after I read through all yours, but I'll write a new one instead.

I do agree that Houston and Florida have a stronger popular connotation than any other place, but I still think of three sites: Florida, Texas and So Cal.

I grew up in LA hearing sonic booms from landing space shuttles. Also, the footprint of the manufacturing base for the space program was huge in So Cal and much larger than any other location. There was a time in LA when virtually everyone either worked in the entertainment industry or the aerospace industry.

The point of my post was only to disagree LA is a stretch not to write that it is more deserving than FL or TX. I also strongly agree than the NY connection is a shoe string at best from a contribution to the space program standpoint. New Mexico and Alabama have stronger connections that NY.

 

[Rustward]

You can see that I have revised my first opinion with more research....


I bet major components were manufactured in many states... that is how politics work... but if you think 'space program', what are the two sites you think of first

Me, Florida where they are launched and Houston where all space flight is handled.... for the life of me a third place does not jump to my mind.... not trying to start an argument with this comment... just my thinking...

George C. Marshall Space Flight Center at the Redstone Arsenal near Huntsville, Alabama comes to mind, but at best third or fourth behind Fl, Tx, and LA, IMO. Toured it in '70 and again in '85.

 

[M Paquette]

Something I heard today on the radio (but have not confirmed) is that they are 'robbing' (the radios word) JSC.... seems that a lot of simulators etc. that are there now are being moved to other locations and museums...

Since our 'manned space program' will now consist of hitching rides on Soyuz launchers and spacecraft, there isn't much need for manned spaceflight training and mission support. United Spacecraft Alliance (USA) has a mission support contract for the International Space Station that ends in September 2012 to handle Johnson Space Center Mission Operations and Flight Crew Operations.

Past September 2012, we'll have to see if the US government wants to carry support forward, or shift it to one of the other ISS partners.

 

[ls99]

Make one into desert dune buggy, on really large balloon wheels, chop some windows in the cargo bay doors, and give tourist rides. Oh an stick in a whopping big diesel engine for propulsion.

 

[rescueme]

Make one into desert dune buggy, on really large balloon wheels, chop some windows in the cargo bay doors, and give tourist rides. Oh an stick in a whopping big diesel engine for propulsion.

Something like this? ...

 

[ls99]

Good start. Need much bigger balloon tires.

 

[MuirWannabe]

Since our 'manned space program' will now consist of hitching rides on Soyuz launchers and spacecraft, there isn't much need for manned spaceflight training and mission support. United Spacecraft Alliance (USA) has a mission support contract for the International Space Station that ends in September 2012 to handle Johnson Space Center Mission Operations and Flight Crew Operations.

Past September 2012, we'll have to see if the US government wants to carry support forward, or shift it to one of the other ISS partners.

It's a good point that Houston's role in space flight is certainly changing with what some feel is the ER of the shuttle. Still seems like a significant slap that Houston did not receive one of the shuttles for display.

But the bigger deal for that area is the lost jobs of the various contractors and JSC staff associated with the program. There is no vision for NASA going forward and therefore no jobs to go along with that lack of vision.

Seems like the government never cuts anything but they found a way to cut this program. I'm not commenting one way or the other about if that is a good thing. In may, in fact, in the long run be a good thing. But I know it is a sad thing. It's a sad thing that America no longer leads the way in space exploration and no longer has vision to rally behind. More than anything, it's a sad thing for the people of that area of Houston. The for sale signs are out in force. People are dealing with considering complete career changes. It's an impact to their psyche I guess similar to the dismantling of the steel belt years ago. They are reeling. I'm sure they will be fine in the long run. But for now, things are unsettled in that area.

Attached are a couple of videos put together by everyday people who were part of the shuttle program. It's part of their process for closing the book.

YouTube - The Space Shuttle (Narrated by William Shatner)

YouTube - We All Do What We Can Do - Shuttle Workforce Tribute