Space - The Final Frontier

[JoeWras]

The way I heard it, the thrusters and leaks were all in the part which was jettisoned and burned up during re-entry. Hopefully I misunderstood and they'll get some good answers. We need more options for accessing space.

Duh-oh!

 

[Koolau]

The way I heard it, the thrusters and leaks were all in the part which was jettisoned and burned up during re-entry. Hopefully I misunderstood and they'll get some good answers. We need more options for accessing space.

The more the better. We're committed to space exploration and we need several platforms because (sooner or later) they all will have failures. It's the nature of the progress - a few steps forward and the occasional step backward.

 

[JoeWras]

Yeah, Koolau. I know Boeing is down on the mat ready to be pinned, but they deserve a place in this space. (Pun intended.)

SpaceX is great and amazing, but they also have a bit of a cowboy attitude. I thought Boeing would balance that... and then Boeing went into full fool mode. But it looks like they are coming out of that and it would be good to have multiple providers. There are some lessor competitors trying too. I'm hoping it more than just these two. But two are a good start.

We'll all be dead before they go to Mars*. I'm just hoping I see a decent Moon presence before I die, like we have now with the space station.

*Going to Mars is just like many talked in 2015 about having self driving cars ANYWHERE in 5 years (not a box like the taxis in SF). It ain't gonna happen quick. But it will happen. For those who think it is happening in 10 years, I used to have swamp land in FL to sell you.

 

[6miths]

So it appears that Starliner project could have returned the astronauts safely. That is good news, suggesting that Boeing has a likely viable space flight system to add to the mix.

Good show.

I wondered about this as I watched the descent but I have not yet heard a definitive report about the conditions inside the ship on return. Certainly, it's good that it didn't break up or suffer some other major failure on return but there is a difference between getting the capsule down and having passengers, even in fully autonomous spacesuits, arriving safely. At the end of the day, the numbers did not support risking the pilots lives in the return. Will be interesting to see if NASA makes Boeing fly it again in trial mode before putting it into use. I sure would.

 

[Texas Proud]

I would be shocked if they are not required to do at least another test before carrying passengers...

To me, load it up with supplies and send it up...

 

[Chuckanut]

I would be shocked if they are not required to do at least another test before carrying passengers...

To me, load it up with supplies and send it up...

I think that is most likely. The consequences of losing the two astronauts on reentry would have been serious for NASA and perhaps fatal for Boeing’s Starliner. Now, Starliner may live to fight another day.

Berger’s soon to be introduced book should have some interesting tidbits.

 

[Chuckanut]

NASA and Blue Origin announced Friday that they have agreed to delay the launch of the ESCAPADE mission to Mars until at least the spring of 2025.

The decision to stand down from a launch attempt in mid-October was driven by a deadline to begin loading hypergolic propellant on the two small ESCAPADE (Escape and Plasma Acceleration and Dynamics Explorers) spacecraft. While it is theoretically possible to offload fuel from these vehicles for a future launch attempt, multiple sources told Ars that such an activity would incur significant risk to the spacecraft.

Forced to make a call on whether to fuel, NASA decided not to. Although the two spacecraft were otherwise ready for launch, it was not clear the New Glenn rocket would be similarly ready to go.

It looks like New Glenn is not quite ready to go thus delaying a Mars mission to next year. Boeing and now Blue Origin are letting NASA down. Meanwhile, SpaceX is being tactfully quiet.

Hopefully, both B and BO will get their act together sooner than later.

 

[dixonge]

So it appears that Starliner project could have returned the astronauts safely. That is good news, suggesting that Boeing has a likely viable space flight system to add to the mix.

Good show.

Good news for the next flight, which will probably be in, oh, maybe five years?

 

[Gumby]

Good news for the next flight, which will probably be in, oh, maybe five years?

Given that the ISS is slated to be decommissioned in 2030, if it takes that long, it probably won't happen at all.

 

[Koolau]

Given that the ISS is slated to be decommissioned in 2030, if it takes that long, it probably won't happen at all.

If I've seen it, I forget why ISS is being decommissioned. I assume it's simply coming to the end of its projected useful life span - sorta like a car?? Too costly to keep going as opposed to (eventually) replacing - or moving on to the moon instead.

 

[CaptTom]

SpaceX is great and amazing, but they also have a bit of a cowboy attitude.

This is my fear, too. Overconfidence and complacency can come to a sudden and very dramatic end. Having a loose cannon at the helm can't be a good thing in long run, either, although you do have to admire the drive and motivation he has, and instills in his workforce.

On the flip side, Boeing is demonstrating everything which is wrong with the old military-industrial complex. I hope their new CEO can turn things around. I suspect most of the employees want this, and he'll probably have the full, if grudging, support of the MBAs and investment bankers this time.

Then there are all the also-rans, working hard to prove that capitalism works. There will no doubt be winners and losers, but I suspect the market will eventually whittle it down to around three viable options for large payloads to orbit, and maybe a couple of niche players.

 

[Fermion]

The Polaris Dawn mission keeps getting delayed because they have to forecast the weather for recovery 8 days out. Annoying. Landing in the desert does seem better...

 

[Chuckanut]

The Polaris Dawn mission keeps getting delayed because they have to forecast the weather for recovery 8 days out. Annoying. Landing in the desert does seem better...

Originally, Crew Dragon was supposed to have landing legs and do a propulsive landing on land. The escape rockets on the side were supposed to also do the job of slowing Dragon before it hit the ground.

However, NASA had issues with the landing legs popping out of the heat shield area (Gosh, I wonder why!) , and eventually SpaceX decided to land on the water, a tried and true landing method.

 

[dixonge]

Having a loose cannon at the helm can't be a good thing in long run, either, although you do have to admire the drive and motivation he has, and instills in his workforce.

Good news for you - Gwynne Shotwell runs SpaceX and generally avoids social media, and therefore controversy.

 

[Koolau]

Good news for you - Gwynne Shotwell runs SpaceX and generally avoids social media, and therefore controversy.

Never heard of Gwynne Shotwell. I think that's your point.

 

[Fermion]

Polaris Dawn launched successfully this morning, next step is the space walk, first ever by a private mission. It is interesting how nicely streamlined the suits are now.

 

[Chuckanut]

Never heard of Gwynne Shotwell. I think that's your point.

You haven't heard of her because her boss steals the show. She gets things done and, if stories are to be believed, often 'corrects' errors made by Mr. Musk in moments of anger or frustration. As in "Don't clean out your desk. I'll talk to him when he calms down."

Musk apparently has Asperger's Syndrome, which is described below:

AutismSpeaks.org states that some symptoms of Asperger's include "difficulty with social interactions," "restricted interest" and "desire for sameness."

Some of the strengths of Asperger's, according to AutismSpeaks, include "remarkable focus and persistence," "aptitude for recognizing patterns" and "attention to detail."

Sounds a lot like Musk to me.

 

[Koolau]

You haven't heard of her because her boss steals the show. She gets things done and, if stories are to be believed, often 'corrects' errors made by Mr. Musk in moments of anger or frustration. As in "Don't clean out your desk. I'll talk to him when he calms down."

Musk apparently has Asperger's Syndrome, which is described below:



Sounds a lot like Musk to me.

If it will make me a billionaire, give me some Asperger's! All I've got is spinal stenosis. That'll make you frustrated and crazy.

 

[CaptTom]

You haven't heard of her because her boss steals the show.

It's good to hear there's someone moderating the decision-making process there. It's especially good (and reflects well on Musk's intelligence) that he's willing to listen to a voice of reason.

Still, he's the one with the money, and the public persona. There's both good and bad in that. I wish them all well, even when I don't agree with everything that's tweeted.

 

[Koolau]

It's good to hear there's someone moderating the decision-making process there. It's especially good (and reflects well on Musk's intelligence) that he's willing to listen to a voice of reason.

Still, he's the one with the money, and the public persona. There's both good and bad in that. I wish them all well, even when I don't agree with everything that's tweeted.

I tend to ignore the tweets and look at what products are produced and how well they're doing. Nor do I expect anyone to be perfect as that's not possible. YMMV

 

[Fermion]

Musk recently (Saturday?) claimed that if the Starship testing goes well, they will land one on Mars in 2 years and then land humans on Mars in 4 years. I respect SpaceX a lot but there is no way! They probably couldn't even get the paperwork past the FAA in 4 years for a Mars human expedition.

 

[Koolau]

Musk recently (Saturday?) claimed that if the Starship testing goes well, they will land one on Mars in 2 years and then land humans on Mars in 4 years. I respect SpaceX a lot but there is no way! They probably couldn't even get the paperwork past the FAA in 4 years for a Mars human expedition.

But the small print was that each of these feats would take place on Feb. 29.

 

[Fermion]

But the small print was that each of these feats would take place on Feb. 29.

Or April 20. At 4:20pm.

 

[CaptTom]

The thing to remember about Starship is it's just one piece in a very large puzzle. It hasn't successfully flown and landed yet. That may happen soon. But even if that goes perfectly, there are a lot of other "firsts" ahead. Things like building and launching multiple refueling tankers for the trip to Mars, figuring out how to transfer fuel in orbit, landing on Mars, getting people onto the surface, returning from Mars (refueling again?) and landing them safely back on Earth. Oh, and the little matter of dealing with the radiation outside Earth's Van Allen belts for the duration of the voyage.

 

[Chuckanut]

Musk recently (Saturday?) claimed that if the Starship testing goes well, they will land one on Mars in 2 years and then land humans on Mars in 4 years. I respect SpaceX a lot but there is no way! They probably couldn't even get the paperwork past the FAA in 4 years for a Mars human expedition.

Musk is famous for optimistic time lines and has admitted it on several occasions. He needs some lessons from Montgomery Scott, chief engineer of the starship Enterprise who famously bragged about never giving Kirk an estimate that was not greatly padded.