Sports car dreams

[Masquernom]

I understand the nostalgia for the late 60's early 70s muscle cars. In high school I drove a 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX. 455 CI engine, posi-traction rear end. I always thought some day I'd own a Hurst Olds around the same year. Finally had the funds, and found a nice convertible one. I gave it some thought, then started remembering what it was like to drive my 70 Cutlass. No AC, starter going out periodically. Motor over heating in heavy traffic, etc. I knew it would just be a garage queen, so I passed.

 

[Koolau]

I understand the nostalgia for the late 60's early 70s muscle cars. In high school I drove a 1970 Cutlass Supreme SX. 455 CI engine, posi-traction rear end. I always thought some day I'd own a Hurst Olds around the same year. Finally had the funds, and found a nice convertible one. I gave it some thought, then started remembering what it was like to drive my 70 Cutlass. No AC, starter going out periodically. Motor over heating in heavy traffic, etc. I knew it would just be a garage queen, so I passed.

Yeah, I grew pretty tired of the limitations of my '69 Vette. It only held one passenger. It leaked when it rained. It often needed shop-time where they typically just let it sit all day and lied to me that "there's nothing wrong with it." I miss the car now - but I was glad to see it go when I sold it.

 

[Masquernom]

I think the old cars may be like boats. The two best days are when you buy it, and when you sell it.

 

[Koolau]

I think the old cars may be like boats. The two best days are when you buy it, and when you sell it.

Bingo!

 

[ArmchairMillionaire]

I think the old cars may be like boats. The two best days are when you buy it, and when you sell it.

I don't know. Maybe for some.

I still really enjoy driving my '79 El Camino in the summers. It is a garage queen over the winters, but that's only 7 months of the year. Mid-May through Mid-October, I drive it every chance I get.

But to each, their own, I guess.

 

[Badger]

Over the years I thought about fast/powerful cars. In my 40s I had a few Alfa Romeos, a Fiat Spyder, and a Triump sports car (not what you would call powerful). Then 3 more decades after that I can't get folded into anything other than an SUV. My body is dictating what I can drive. Next it will be something self-driving if I survive long enough to see them become a safe option and still know who or where I am.

 

[freedomatlast]

I think the old cars may be like boats. The two best days are when you buy it, and when you sell it.

I'll have to disagree with that statement. If you're reasonably mechanically inclined, old cars are a pleasure to work on compared to new vehicles. If you're not reasonably mechanically inclined, you might want to consider a different hobby.

I imagine it's no fun if you have to rely on someone else for maintenance and repairs on an old car, if you could even find someone that was competent.

Most newer mechanics have never gapped a set of points and can't do any diagnostics without a code reader.

 

[Masquernom]

Over the years I thought about fast/powerful cars. In my 40s I had a few Alfa Romeos, a Fiat Spyder, and a Triump sports car (not what you would call powerful). Then 3 more decades after that I can't get folded into anything other than an SUV. My body is dictating what I can drive. Next it will be something self-driving if I survive long enough to see them become a safe option and still know who or where I am.

I remember as a kid the joke was the old rich guy driving their Cadillac or Lincoln. We always thought that was funny when they could have a new Camaro or Corvette or some other cool car. Now I'm the old guy, and I just want something easy to get in and out of, quite and comfortable.

 

[Masquernom]

I don't know. Maybe for some.

I still really enjoy driving my '79 El Camino in the summers. It is a garage queen over the winters, but that's only 7 months of the year. Mid-May through Mid-October, I drive it every chance I get.

But to each, their own, I guess.

I understand. There's a lot of nostalgia and interest in older cars. It will be interesting to see how it works out over the years. I know the generation of my parents always talked about the cars from the 1950's mostly. My generation seems to focus on the late 60's early 70's. In 20 years, with continuing technology changes, will anyone care about these autos any longer? Will the car shows be full of 2026 Corvettes?

 

[Car-Guy]

Most newer mechanics have never gapped a set of points and can't do any diagnostics without a code reader.

That's what a dwell meter and set of allen wrenches are for. Did you know you can use a matchbook cover (everybody smoked in those days) to set the points gap, if you didn't have a feeler gauge or dwell meter handy.

Ah the days of bumping the starter to get the points on a high point/lobe of the rotor. Still have a couple of points condenser sets. Those were the days!

 

[stepford]

Ah the days of bumping the starter to get the points on a high point/lobe of the rotor. Still have a couple of points condenser sets. Those were the days!

You're smarter than I was. I always put it in gear and pushed - also worked for getting the cam lobes in the right position for valve adjustments.

Nostalgia's all well and good, but I'm happy that none of my cars from the last 30 or so years have required these sorts of games.

 

[Texas Proud]

I think that some people remember the old cars different than what they really were...

Sure, they sounded great...and we thought they were fast and handled good... but looking at todays cars they did not...

I had friends who had some really nice cars... a late 60s or early 70s Firebird Formula that had options on it and was lowered that I drove a few times at 155 MPH... my neighbor who had a tricked out Chevelle SS 396...

But all those old cars are slow vs new cars... and handle horribly also... sure, you can resto mod them but that is putting their skin on a new car!!!

Looking back, I had a favorite car... a 87 Firebird Formula 350... really liked it, except for all the time I had to send it to the shop to get things fixed (and that was a LOT of the time)...

Then bought a 04 Acura TL 6 speed... and guess what? It was quicker than my Firebird!! And handled much better... and was a sedan where I could actually put people in the back seat...

Nope... you will never convince me that the old cars are better at anything vs new cars... if you want to have a garage queen as some have put it then fine... but I doubt it is your daily driver... (if it is, good for you)

 

[sdtech]

My first car was a used '65 Ford Fairlane - a white box with 4 doors - not cool for a 16 year old. Second car was a used '71 Mustang - one of the worst years for them. It was slower than the Fairlane, things broke... but it was cool!

 

[Diogenes]

I think the old cars may be like boats. The two best days are when you buy it, and when you sell it.

The key difference is that a boat, in general parlance, is rarely used. It sits in the driveway under a tarp. It gets towed to a lake maybe 3-4 times a year, for one day at a time. And each time, there's prep-work before sailing it, and shutdown work (such as cleaning things) after.

For me, an "old car" would be new enough, relatively speaking, that it would be a plausible daily driver. I live in a warm climate and have no family, so neither winter-durability nor passenger space are important. If I were braver, I'd daily-drive a liter-class motorcycle, and call it good. But I'm... prudent (euphemism). A good daily driver by my reckoning is something like a 1970s Porsche 911 when an engine swap, hopped-up to massive torque. Or a BMW 2002 - remember those? - also with an engine swap. Or an Opel GT with a stretched wheelbase and big block Chevy engine. Basically 1965-1985 era cars, with very extensive power mods. And they would all be driven on the order of 5000-8000 miles annually, including in traffic... yes, Los Angeles stop and go traffic.

On a completely different note, the other day I test drove a 2008 Corvette... base model, with a stick shift. The experience was starkly different from that of my Mustang GT test drive! Putting the 'Vette in 2nd gear, 2000 rpm, and flooring the gas... it makes a very impressive concerted push. Not like a Tesla Model-3 Performance, but incomparably more assertive than the Mustang. It also felt lighter, more responsive overall, more communicative, more.. involving. With the Mustang, I felt like a passenger who happens to be seated in the driver's seat. With the Corvette, immediately upon jumping-in, I was driving it, instead of it driving me. It felt like a bigger, stronger but slightly less agile version of my venerable 1991 Miata.

What next? I learned that if the aim is a modern car, with modern car conveniences but modern car baggage, the choice might very well be a C6 Corvette... maybe base model, maybe Z06. But if I want the nimbleness and elfin lissomeness of a Miata, with the sheer thrust of a Tesla, then I'm going to have to build such a car. It isn't going to be at a dealership or a used car lot.

 

[freedomatlast]

Drive a Caddy Blackwing, a BMW with a twin turbocharged V-8 or something Hellcat powered and you might experience what you're seeking.

 

[Masquernom]

I know I'm definitely in the minority when it comes to vehicles. I'm in the quieter the better camp. Compare that to say Harley Davidson motorcycles. They have a special sound room where they design the cycles to have a particular sound. As I understand it, some of the newer sporty vehicles also pipe extra sound into the cabin via the vehicle's speakers to simulate engine noise. So, different strokes, or sounds, for different folks!

 

[Diogenes]

I know I'm definitely in the minority when it comes to vehicles. I'm in the quieter the better camp. Compare that to say Harley Davidson motorcycles. They have a special sound room where they design the cycles to have a particular sound. As I understand it, some of the newer sporty vehicles also pipe extra sound into the cabin via the vehicle's speakers to simulate engine noise. So, different strokes, or sounds, for different folks!

Quite so. I also prefer quieter vehicles, especially since I change gears based on pitch. If the exhaust is too loud, I can't hear the engine properly. I can't hear the valve-chatter that's a sign to downshift. I can't hear pinging, that's a sign that maybe the spark advance is too aggressive. I can't rationally communicate with a car that's simply too loud!

The "piping-in" of sound via the stereo is the automotive equivalent of silicone implants... gaudy and cringeworthy. I find that modern performance cars often emphasize an alluring ersatz performance, the phony feel of performance, vs. actual real-world stopwatch numbers... and even when the numbers are verifiable and real, they're attained via a brazen flogging of the machine, a 10/10ths approach that's unattainable in practical circumstances.

 

[aja8888]

Had plenty, don't dream anymore. Miss my "65 Vette conv.

 

[Ronstar]

Had plenty, don't dream anymore. Miss my "65 Vette conv.

While it won't be the same as yours, you can still get a '65.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

What next? I learned that if the aim is a modern car, with modern car conveniences but modern car baggage, the choice might very well be a C6 Corvette... maybe base model, maybe Z06. But if I want the nimbleness and elfin lissomeness of a Miata, with the sheer thrust of a Tesla, then I'm going to have to build such a car. It isn't going to be at a dealership or a used car lot.

OTOH, there's a good reason Mazda never put a larger engine in the Miata. Adding weight is going to upset the delicate handling balance, especially since that weight would be over the front axle (goodbye 50/50 weight distribution).

 

[Diogenes]

OTOH, there's a good reason Mazda never put a larger engine in the Miata. Adding weight is going to upset the delicate handling balance, especially since that weight would be over the front axle (goodbye 50/50 weight distribution).

That's it's own debate. I am approaching 200K of miles daily-driving (and in an very limited way, track-racing) first generation Miatas. No, it isn't "more fun to drive a slow car quickly, than a fast car slowly". Yes, there are obvious commercial and regulatory pressures with which every manufacturer must contend. A Miata form-factor could have accommodated more engine setback, but (1) the cabin needs to accommodate American drivers, and (2) the fuel tank needs to be where it is, for rear impact safety reasons. I probably have 4" of room between my seatback and the rear bulkhead (benefit of being short), and really don't care if I get Ford Pinto'd for my final act. But hey, Mazda didn't custom-build the Miata for me. Them's the breaks.

Old-school drag racers had an elegant solution for weight distribution and weight transfer with a large/heavy engine: radical firewall setback. I wish that modern car-builders remembered and rekindled this approach. Shove the engine so far back, that the transmission tailshaft basically mates with the input to the differential, like in the Bill Thomas Cheetah.

 

[Out-to-Lunch]

OTOH, there's a good reason Mazda never put a larger engine in the Miata. Adding weight is going to upset the delicate handling balance, especially since that weight would be over the front axle (goodbye 50/50 weight distribution).

OTOH, consider my LS swap into a BMW 323. Aluminum V8 actually weighs a skosh LESS than an iron-block I6. I am still right about 50-50.

 

[Koolau]

I remember as a kid the joke was the old rich guy driving their Cadillac or Lincoln. We always thought that was funny when they could have a new Camaro or Corvette or some other cool car. Now I'm the old guy, and I just want something easy to get in and out of, quite and comfortable.

Heh, heh, and something that doesn't need w*rked on every time I drive it!

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

OTOH, consider my LS swap into a BMW 323. Aluminum V8 actually weighs a skosh LESS than an iron-block I6. I am still right about 50-50.

OTOH, the current Miata has a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder.

The first generation had a 1.6 liter. The second generation had 1.8 liters. All 4 cylinders.

All engines have some aluminum components, more so in the latest generation.

 

[freedomatlast]

Diogenes - So have you driven anything else besides the C6, Mustang GT and Tesla? Interested in your initial impressions if you have.