Stealth Wealth til Death?

[frank05]

Once upon a time, any color offered on a vehicle was not upcharged.

On old muscle cars there was upcharges for some of the decals.

 

[CO-guy]

Sometimes talking about your successes feels like bragging. That's why I come here.

That's exactly the reason I joined this community. My better-half has little interest beyond knowing that we have a plan, and we don't talk about finances with our friends and neighbors. Before finding this community, it was all just random thoughts in my own head.

 

[TickTock]

It is very nice to be able to bounce things off of an intelligent, experienced financial community with a wide variety of strongly held opinions.

I have revised my financial thinking more than once from info obtained here. Not sweeping changes, incremental - but valuable ones, I believe.

I also simply enjoy personal finance and learning about different approaches, even if they're not the ones I use.

 

[CO-guy]

Besides, based on conversations I've had in the past, I think that most people would actually be confused by the disconnect between my net worth number and my standard of living. A lot of people think that millionaires drive Bentleys, not a nearly 8-year old compact Audi. No need to confuse people unnecessarily.

Same. So many of the friends we have that live in our community arrived around the same time as us. We were fortunate enough to all go through the property buying process after the last real estate crash and so we've all won the "real estate lottery" to varying degrees. Our compensation was also similar with some of the higher paying positions in our area, which isn't saying much.

However, there are differences that have had a major impact on our net worth compared to our local friends over the past 20 years. Biggest among them was we didn't spend the last two decades raising children. Related to that, our friends with kids didn't have time for side hustles or building a business. Plus, money wise, they aren't maxing out their retirement savings because all of their paycheck is spent before it's deposited. I offered to help find them consulting gigs, but they just didn't have the time. In contrast, my consulting became my primary source of income over the past 10 years; quietly doubling our household income compared to our friends until I finally quit my full-time position. Further, and somewhat related as well, our friends are all 2-car households with at least one hefty car payment at any given time for a newer/safer vehicle. We've never had a car payment and bought our current nearly 10-year-old vehicle with the insurance claim after our last over-10-year-old vehicle was totaled.

Most telling of this net worth disparity, when mortgage interest rates bottomed out after Covid, nearly every one of our friends refinanced. However, unlike our friends, we didn't take any of our newfound "real estate lottery" equity out of our home. We even paid closing costs out of pocket, so the only things that happened from refinancing was that our monthly payments decreased while cutting over 5 years from the repayment timeline. We learned that many of our friends more than doubled their mortgage loan amount to pay for everything from costly home improvements and tuition to new vehicles, campers and motorized toys. At this point, by comparison, they have little saved for retirement, much less equity in their homes, and large monthly expenses that will prevent them from ever catching up.

 

[TickTock]

The "Good old days" where they also spent $13 for backup lights, $15 for a windshield washer, and $88 for a heater.

"Would you like a mouse and monitor with that computer, sir?"

 

[livingalmostlarge]

Sleeping in the car when one is a (multi) millionaire is taking cheapness down to a whole new level.

When I say I know, trust me I know. It has taken about 20 years to get DH away from their brainwashing that they are poor. It finally sank in when they bought a million + dollar condo in cash. I mean sure his mom sold a house for $1m, but it didn't "sink" in that my in-laws are the cheapest people out there. That they "using" us and have never picked up a check for us or treated us at all.

If they weren't his parents I would never see them again. As it stands I button my lip since we see my family subtantially more and I do what I please often seeing my mom monthly. that's the trade off. I turn a blind eye to the "taker" nature of being "cheap" they aren't stealth. They are past stealth.

Frugality is choosing how to spend your money wisely. Cheap is using everyone and everything to your advantage including your own family.

1. They gave my BIL the first page of their will to prove there is one but expect him to go looking for it.
2. My MIL 10 years ago bought herself a hot chocolate at the San Diego Zoo but didn't bother to offer to my kids. We'd already paid meals, hotels, tickets. It was over the top. I almost walked out with the kids.
3. They actually asked for us to buy them said condo and complained when we said we didn't have the cash to do it.
4. They toss things in the shopping cart and order the most expensive items on the menu because we're paying.
5. One thanksgiving they got DH to buy them a turkey the day after halloween and smoke and rotissirie to take home for them after eating ours. They also did not bring anything over as a guest, but i guess they are his parents. They like to come see us and have us pack them up with food to go home or at least before when they were healthier.
6. They slept in a single bed dormitory room and one of them slept on the floor and the other the bed to save money when driving to see us one summer in a university dorm room. Because it was cheaper than a hotel and a double room would have cost more so they used an air mattress. They were 70+ at this time with 7 figure portfolio and pensions and no debt. I told them a monestary might have been more comfortable.

Honestly it's more my MIL. I pointed out that it was unsafe to sleep in the parking lot in the car and she was like well it was too late to take a cab to a hotel around 11 pm. The hospital offered a known cab company to the hotel they send all their families too. But she wasn't about to spend that.

They lived in a single room airbnb after heart surgery on my FIL because they didn't want to spend anything on a hotel or even an apartment or rental for just them. They didn't cook healthy foods after double valve surgery because they didn't have a proper kitchen. They wanted DH to drive them from city A to city B 10 hours drive and he said fly. I put my foot down and said he was nuts if he gave into their demands and attempted to drive across a winter pass. I also said they have more than enough money to buy a $200 ticket and we weren't paying.

I get it mental health. My MIl is missing screws and lots of them. Also probably why I don't write them off because I have to say "she has problems" under my breath.

 

[Sunset]

Sleeping in the car when one is a (multi) millionaire is taking cheapness down to a whole new level.

I slept in my van about 9 times when traveling on my own. I did lie flat in back with pillows, etc, and it was quite comfortable and a lot easier than the hassle of a hotel room, that I'd use for 8 hours.

I just considered it a frugal thing.

Wouldn't try sleeping in a car, as too hard to lie flat.

When DW is with me, we get a hotel room because she likes them.

 

[Koolau]

Our Mazda SUV had a red upcharge of $600 or 800 dollars. Can't remember the figure. The red color was done very well.

Where's Earl Sheib when you need him?

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[Koolau]

When I say I know, trust me I know. It has taken about 20 years to get DH away from their brainwashing that they are poor. It finally sank in when they bought a million + dollar condo in cash. I mean sure his mom sold a house for $1m, but it didn't "sink" in that my in-laws are the cheapest people out there. That they "using" us and have never picked up a check for us or treated us at all.

If they weren't his parents I would never see them again. As it stands I button my lip since we see my family subtantially more and I do what I please often seeing my mom monthly. that's the trade off. I turn a blind eye to the "taker" nature of being "cheap" they aren't stealth. They are past stealth.

Frugality is choosing how to spend your money wisely. Cheap is using everyone and everything to your advantage including your own family.

1. They gave my BIL the first page of their will to prove there is one but expect him to go looking for it.
2. My MIL 10 years ago bought herself a hot chocolate at the San Diego Zoo but didn't bother to offer to my kids. We'd already paid meals, hotels, tickets. It was over the top. I almost walked out with the kids.
3. They actually asked for us to buy them said condo and complained when we said we didn't have the cash to do it.
4. They toss things in the shopping cart and order the most expensive items on the menu because we're paying.
5. One thanksgiving they got DH to buy them a turkey the day after halloween and smoke and rotissirie to take home for them after eating ours. They also did not bring anything over as a guest, but i guess they are his parents. They like to come see us and have us pack them up with food to go home or at least before when they were healthier.
6. They slept in a single bed dormitory room and one of them slept on the floor and the other the bed to save money when driving to see us one summer in a university dorm room. Because it was cheaper than a hotel and a double room would have cost more so they used an air mattress. They were 70+ at this time with 7 figure portfolio and pensions and no debt. I told them a monestary might have been more comfortable.

Honestly it's more my MIL. I pointed out that it was unsafe to sleep in the parking lot in the car and she was like well it was too late to take a cab to a hotel around 11 pm. The hospital offered a known cab company to the hotel they send all their families too. But she wasn't about to spend that.

They lived in a single room airbnb after heart surgery on my FIL because they didn't want to spend anything on a hotel or even an apartment or rental for just them. They didn't cook healthy foods after double valve surgery because they didn't have a proper kitchen. They wanted DH to drive them from city A to city B 10 hours drive and he said fly. I put my foot down and said he was nuts if he gave into their demands and attempted to drive across a winter pass. I also said they have more than enough money to buy a $200 ticket and we weren't paying.

I get it mental health. My MIl is missing screws and lots of them. Also probably why I don't write them off because I have to say "she has problems" under my breath.

I'm beginning to wonder if your husband is DW's brother. Late MIL was so similar to what you describe. She was so focused on money and things to the exclusion of relationships. So sad. It got worse over the years and I do believe it was some sort of dementia or "screw loose" situation. It was painful for DW. She swore her mom was more loving when DW was a child. MIL just got worse with age - unlike fine wine.

 

[Koolau]

I slept in my van about 9 times when traveling on my own. I did lie flat in back with pillows, etc, and it was quite comfortable and a lot easier than the hassle of a hotel room, that I'd use for 8 hours.

I just considered it a frugal thing.

Wouldn't try sleeping in a car, as too hard to lie flat.

When DW is with me, we get a hotel room because she likes them.

After encountering bed bugs at a half decent motel, I considered rigging our van for sleeping. Instead I educated myself on how to look for the little critters before accepting a room.

 

[TickTock]

DW and I are largely stealth wealth - but not deliberately. It's simply how we live.

 

[RetiredHappy]

There is no quantitative definition of what is considered wealthy. My husband thinks that we are wealthy but I don't think we are. I have mentioned that we live in a very affluent community and I consider ourselves as comfortable. Wealthy would be "other" people whom we know, multiple homes, paying top IRMAA bracket and belonging to several exclusive country clubs at the same time. A couple who are very close friends of ours have 2 concierge PCPs, one where we live (we introduced them to our doctor) and one back in Calfiornia where they have another $10M home. It baffles me when I see posts on this thread about stealth wealth. No one cares how much you have or not. We know where we stand amongst friends.

 

[ATX78701]

My friends have no idea what I have. I live a simple life compared to the balance in the accounts. Friends know that I track costs with an accountant's precision in a spreadsheet (still doing it after years of retirement because it is a small, free activity that brings me joy). I like the fancy lifestyle on occasion but agree with previous poster that hanging out with others who spend more will increase my spending, too.

 

[rayvt]

Our kids figured we were set when I retired at 58, and we spent the next few years taking cruises.

DW didn't really care to know how much we had, just told me "Unless & until you tell me to stop, I am going to assume we have enough and will just buy what I want."
When I booked an 80 day cruise in a top-tier cabin, she said "I don't want to know how much this cost. Just tell me we can afford it."
I did once show her our brokerage account just so she'd know in case she had to take over.

Our kids still don't know, other than reading the tea leaves to guess.

One 10-year old granddaughter asked DW, "Daddy said you are rich. Are you and Grandpa rich?" She replied, "No, dear, we are just comfortable." That's always a good answer, much more polite than "MYOB".

 

[partition1]

I find it so difficult, contradictory sometimes...hiding our wealth. I grew up on welfare until I was 17 years old. I abhorred sitting with my mother in front of a government worker to "prove" our case. I hated getting holiday baskets from the church because "we were poor".

I vowed from a very young age I would never be dependent on anyone, ever again. My 1st real job in my early 20's I started investing. Every raise, every promotion I would roll that money into my retirement accounts.

Flash forward to 4 rental condos, 1.8m in accounts, and no one in my family knows our finances. I find it sad and a bit repugnant not to be proud of what I have accomplished despite my situation.

I think my obit should scream from the mountaintops bullet points of what "she did in her life".

Sigh~

 

[TickTock]

There is no quantitative definition of what is considered wealthy.

Agreed. The qualitative definition is 'those that make significantly more money than me'. And IMO, that way lies madness...

 

[TickTock]

Flash forward to 4 rental condos, 1.8m in accounts, and no one in my family knows our finances. I find it sad and a bit repugnant not to be proud of what I have accomplished despite my situation.

I think my obit should scream from the mountaintops bullet points of what "she did in her life".

You absolutely should be proud of what you've accomplished, regardless of what the wider world knows about it.

 

[COcheesehead]

I find it so difficult, contradictory sometimes...hiding our wealth. I grew up on welfare until I was 17 years old. I abhorred sitting with my mother in front of a government worker to "prove" our case. I hated getting holiday baskets from the church because "we were poor".

I vowed from a very young age I would never be dependent on anyone, ever again. My 1st real job in my early 20's I started investing. Every raise, every promotion I would roll that money into my retirement accounts.

Flash forward to 4 rental condos, 1.8m in accounts, and no one in my family knows our finances. I find it sad and a bit repugnant not to be proud of what I have accomplished despite my situation.

I think my obit should scream from the mountaintops bullet points of what "she did in her life".

Sigh~

I agree. I always wonder if there is an element of shame for some. Parts of society look down on the well off and I never understood why.

 

[Sunset]

I find it so difficult, contradictory sometimes...hiding our wealth. I grew up on welfare until I was 17 years old. I abhorred sitting with my mother in front of a government worker to "prove" our case. I hated getting holiday baskets from the church because "we were poor".

I vowed from a very young age I would never be dependent on anyone, ever again. My 1st real job in my early 20's I started investing. Every raise, every promotion I would roll that money into my retirement accounts.

Flash forward to 4 rental condos, 1.8m in accounts, and no one in my family knows our finances. I find it sad and a bit repugnant not to be proud of what I have accomplished despite my situation.

I think my obit should scream from the mountaintops bullet points of what "she did in her life".

Sigh~

I used to go with my dad, a preacher to deliver food baskets. It was a rural area, and some of the conditions folks lived in were extremely rough, like use of an outhouse even in Winter.

Nice to hear someone broke the cycle of poor and something you can be proud of, even if not flashing the cash in front of people.

 

[ychuck46]

Yes and no. We want to enjoy the money we've saved so we are taking vacations and spending it while we are still healthy and active. Anyone can see what our home is worth, if they care. (I assume most do not) We have begun giving our kids lump sums of money/gifts each year and I've told both of them that they don't have to offer to chip in for dinners when we go out, it's safe to assume we are picking up the bill, the same with any trips. If we invite them, they can assume we're paying.
On the other hand we drive 8-9 year old cars, don't own fancy clothes and our house needs to be updated.
Whether they know or not, our family and friends are not the type to be jealous or come asking for handouts.

From the replies I would say that many on this forum are of the same mind. I don't talk money with others except when I am trying to help them on financial matters that they might have questions on. Like yourself they can see our house and neighborhood and make assumptions. My wife and I travel a lot but not expensively in comparison to our assets, and we are doing more and more things like cruises in addition to the usual travel. We buy cars/trucks new and keep them forever, except in the case of our Maverick hybrid we just bought to replace a three year old model (the trade in was higher than we paid initially, and we get a new warranty all over again). But the F-150 was bought new in 2012 and still doing a great job. We give financial gifts to our only child and her husband, and if we wind up leaving them a good inheritance I am fine with that. They are great kids and we will have lived a very full and fun life regardless. I wish everyone the best in this amazing journey called retirement.

 

[ychuck46]

DW didn't really care to know how much we had

My wife is the same way. I want her to know about our assets and where I have all our investments but she doesn't care to know. She just asks if we have enough to get by and the answer is yes. I try to tell her more but it is likely going in one ear and out the other, and she just says our daughter will help her figure it out if anything ever happens to me. We have a great life, don't overspend, with more coming in every year than going out. But I wish she had more of an interest in how everything is structured.

 

[CO-guy]

When I say I know, trust me I know. It has taken about 20 years to get DH away from their brainwashing that they are poor. It finally sank in when they bought a million + dollar condo in cash. I mean sure his mom sold a house for $1m, but it didn't "sink" in that my in-laws are the cheapest people out there. That they "using" us and have never picked up a check for us or treated us at all.

If they weren't his parents I would never see them again. As it stands I button my lip since we see my family subtantially more and I do what I please often seeing my mom monthly. that's the trade off. I turn a blind eye to the "taker" nature of being "cheap" they aren't stealth. They are past stealth.

Frugality is choosing how to spend your money wisely. Cheap is using everyone and everything to your advantage including your own family.

1. They gave my BIL the first page of their will to prove there is one but expect him to go looking for it.
2. My MIL 10 years ago bought herself a hot chocolate at the San Diego Zoo but didn't bother to offer to my kids. We'd already paid meals, hotels, tickets. It was over the top. I almost walked out with the kids.
3. They actually asked for us to buy them said condo and complained when we said we didn't have the cash to do it.
4. They toss things in the shopping cart and order the most expensive items on the menu because we're paying.
5. One thanksgiving they got DH to buy them a turkey the day after halloween and smoke and rotissirie to take home for them after eating ours. They also did not bring anything over as a guest, but i guess they are his parents. They like to come see us and have us pack them up with food to go home or at least before when they were healthier.
6. They slept in a single bed dormitory room and one of them slept on the floor and the other the bed to save money when driving to see us one summer in a university dorm room. Because it was cheaper than a hotel and a double room would have cost more so they used an air mattress. They were 70+ at this time with 7 figure portfolio and pensions and no debt. I told them a monestary might have been more comfortable.

Honestly it's more my MIL. I pointed out that it was unsafe to sleep in the parking lot in the car and she was like well it was too late to take a cab to a hotel around 11 pm. The hospital offered a known cab company to the hotel they send all their families too. But she wasn't about to spend that.

They lived in a single room airbnb after heart surgery on my FIL because they didn't want to spend anything on a hotel or even an apartment or rental for just them. They didn't cook healthy foods after double valve surgery because they didn't have a proper kitchen. They wanted DH to drive them from city A to city B 10 hours drive and he said fly. I put my foot down and said he was nuts if he gave into their demands and attempted to drive across a winter pass. I also said they have more than enough money to buy a $200 ticket and we weren't paying.

I get it mental health. My MIl is missing screws and lots of them. Also probably why I don't write them off because I have to say "she has problems" under my breath.

I have a step-mother that's the opposite of that. She hemorrhages money, is still working in her 70s with almost no savings, and has declared bankruptcy multiple times. It took her children time as adults in order to break away from that cycle once they gained financial independence. Thankfully, they're financially savvy adults now.

As an example, she just returned from a 7-day Mediterranean cruise with one of her kids. She could not afford to pay for the entire trip. So to share costs and make the trip possible, her kid used credit card points to pay for flights and arrival/departure hotels and she paid for the cruise (modest interior cabin) and daily excursions. On the last day of the cruise, I received a message from her kid. Apparently, although paid in advance, she bailed on most of the excursions and instead managed to rack up $2500 in the spa and another $500 in Starbucks/food from the onboard convenience store in six days. Her credit card was declined her final night onboard, which is the only reason they learned of her absurd spending.

 

[Diogenes]

An added bonus is that your social network changes to like-minded (and similarly financialy situated) folk.

This I would dearly enjoy. To the extent that I have any social network, it's either folks living paycheck to paycheck, or the impoverished elderly sustained only by Social Security, or graduate students living off of stipends and free food opportunities on campus. My connections to the so-called middle class, are limited... and when those do happen, folks look down on me, as a miser, a weirdo and a maladroit counterexample to their own children. They're not wrong.

There are different degrees of stealth, and different degrees of wealth. There are also communication barriers. Too frank of an admission would be panned as "humble bragging". Expression of some frustration would be met with accusation of insolence or trolling. This is true even (or especially?) with the anonymity of online, but also in real life.

 

[ychuck46]

Many years ago when I was in the middle of my career, which as a successful IT sales rep meant decent money, one of my wife's relatives (an uncle) asked me point blank if I was a millionaire. I told him I don't talk about our finances and he dropped it. Come to find out he knew he didn't have a lot of years left and was angling to get someone to support his wife, a real witch, since they had no kids. From what we know they eventually pledged their house to their church with the proviso they look after her when the uncle passed, which he did a number of years back. She passed a year or so ago so I presume the church got the house since it sold shortly thereafter.

 

[Adam12]

Our kids figured we were set when I retired at 58, and we spent the next few years taking cruises.

DW didn't really care to know how much we had, just told me "Unless & until you tell me to stop, I am going to assume we have enough and will just buy what I want."
When I booked an 80 day cruise in a top-tier cabin, she said "I don't want to know how much this cost. Just tell me we can afford it."
I did once show her our brokerage account just so she'd know in case she had to take over.

Our kids still don't know, other than reading the tea leaves to guess.

One 10-year old granddaughter asked DW, "Daddy said you are rich. Are you and Grandpa rich?" She replied, "No, dear, we are just comfortable." That's always a good answer, much more polite than "MYOB".

Too bad you missed an amazing opportunity to explain to a child that you accumulated wealth through hard work, dedication and commitment- and you can do it too.