Take care of your kids!

[Gallaher]

Okay, really a rant here. Specifically about parents taking care of their kids forever.
Scenario: FIL age 92 in impressive health. This is a guy whose diet mostly consist of beef, pork, chicken along with canned fruit and veggies and doughnuts. He’d fire up the 3/4 ton pickup to drive two blocks to get a jug of milk. Walking, exercise are for the lowest tier of society to him. For last 30 years his days are consumed by Fox News and any sports on TV. But, he quit smoking sixty years ago. Note: I like a lot of Fox content. Just not all.
MIL age 87 and in rotten health mostly due to uncontrolled diabetes, she used to weigh 300 pounds….no, she is not seven feet tall. Her life is a constellation of health issues. In fact she was discharged from the hospital last night. It seems unmanaged depression kept her from taking care of herself over the years.
Here is the deal, they made no life plans. Their plan has always been that their kids would take care of them.
Now they need assisted living but FIL refuses to go. He expects his kids to take care of them and keep them at home. Problem is kids are all 60-70 years old and 30-40 minutes away. But if you need to be there 2-3 times a day a one hour round trip turns into 2, 3, 4 hours a day.
He believes his kids owe him this. He feels entitled. Now kids are battling it out on fulfilling their needs. They need help but expect the kids to provide it. Do it and pay for it.
BOTTOM LINE HERE: make plans for your life! I’m speaking to the choir on this forum but I don’t subscribed to the “lazy, entitled, selfish” forum. Take care of your needs so that your kids don’t have to. Even if finances are short, have a will. Write down directions. Try to be helpful.
Dont make your kids do it for you.
The most brutal part of this rant is the number of our contemporaries in the exact same boat.
Our scenario will come to an inevitable conclusion soon. But it does not need to be this way.
Wife has an appointment with an elder care attorney tomorrow to figure out her responsibilities and liabilities.
Take care of your kids! Dont make them take care of you.
Rant done…for now

 

[frayne]

We are currently in the process of updating our wills, powers of attorney, and healthcare directives. No one knows what the future holds for any of us, but one of the best things you can do for your children is to make things easier on them by ensuring they don’t have to carry those burdens.

 

[Surewhitey]

We only have 2 mothers to take care of, eventually. 1 is fine @~77 & the other is in memory care, shared home @84. Really not a big deal for now, but sister will likely have her move in with her when she gets to that point in time.

Both pops left us with little/no trouble in their 70s.

We've done our paperwork for our DD. Should be easy peasy when we get there...probably 20+ years to go.

 

[Flyfish1]

We have just updated our wills, Health care directives and our Living Trusts and ILIT's. Pain in the neck but every few years it is a good thing to do. Got the NokBox and kids all will be updated soon. Getting all the assets into the Trust was also a pain but should avoid probate completely.

 

[skipro33]

Old folks today grew up helping their parents when they got old, so of course they feel entitled to the same treatment when it's their own time. I moved Dad in when Mom died and he eventually was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. 3 years of caring for a man who in his mind I was 16 and treated me as such. Both my sons told me in no uncertain terms that I should not expect that from them for either me or their mother. And actually, I wouldn't want to live with either of them or have them over to help me as well. I think today's adult kids, on the whole, have no intention of becoming personally involved with their elderly parents care.
We have the funds, for now, to manage long term care on our own, but only if we both don't have any dementia. Dad lost all his o scammers, so he literally died broke other than his SS and a small pension. Because of the forum here, DW and I discuss plans for if and when that time comes for us.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I grew up in an ethnic culture that children are responsible for their parents, financially and everything else. However my father had a different belief, and told us that he would never want to depend on his children and that he would see to it that my parents were financially independent and the last thing that they would ever want was to ask for money from their children. Unfortunately, when he died, he left much of the money to his children and little to my mother. When my mother passed away, I learned that she was running out of money but she never asked for financial help from us.

 

[street]

Very interesting subject. My hope is they do take of my financial matters as I will need them to pay for my or wife long term care if needed. My biggest concern is having them pay the bills but not to take care of us in any way shape or form.
I hope they will be do that part. There will should be more then enough for them in inheritance to be well worth their time do take care of finances for us.

 

[SnowballCamper]

I think that for centuries/millennia kids, family, and church took care of aging parents. Parents take care of kids for the first 20 years...I think that's worth something. Of course things are different now with people moving across the country for careers, state programs like SS, and medicare.
On the other hand, family dysfunction is real and has devastating effects.

 

[Gallaher]

Very interesting subject. My hope is they do take of my financial matters as I will need them to pay for my or wife long term care if needed. My biggest concern is having them pay the bills but not to take care of us in any way shape or form.
I hope they will be do that part. There will should be more then enough for them in inheritance to be well worth their time do take care of finances for us.

I appreciate the sentiment. Just put your desires in writing and probably get it notarized so your kids dont argue what’s best.
I will expect my kids to read the estate plan and follow directions. Then they get to keep the rest.

 

[Time2]

I lived 1000 miles from my mother and saw her a couple times a year. She had a paid off house and lived on a quite modest SS check and had about $20k in the bank that she didn't touch. Each time I visited I brought $1,500 to $2,000 for her as spending money. Sometime around 2011, I was a visiting and during one of our talks, I told her that my wife and I had a nest egg of $1.2M. She got up and left the room, a minute or two later she returned and said she was proud of us. I still don't know what to think of her walking out right after I said that. I don't know if she was just shocked at the amount, shocked that I hadn't supported her with more, or if she just had to blow her nose! It could have been the amount, $50k would have been huge to her, and I think she was comfortable with what she had. She called me one time to ask if she could give some of the money I gave her to a relative that needed it. I said I gave it to her to do whatever she wanted to do with it. She died about a year later in 2012. Just something I think about every once in a while.

 

[PlayinwithFIRE]

I think modern medicine has exarcerbated this problem ... used to be, you'd have a "major" medical
issue and it would kill you in your bed, at home, overnite. Done.

Now, you are likely to survive a major medical issue, not without atleast an large uptick in doctor visits, lab tests, increased Rx , etc and probably with some kind of functional loss , be it physical or mental. Once in the system, its hard to get out

I agree though, that you should do everything you can to not become a burden on others around you. Not when you are old and decrepit, but as a way to live life all along.

pwf

 

[Sojourner]

BOTTOM LINE HERE: make plans for your life!
[...]
Take care of your needs so that your kids don’t have to. Even if finances are short, have a will. Write down directions. Try to be helpful.
Dont make your kids do it for you.

100% agree with this, with a few additional suggestions:

• Make an "advance healthcare directive" (aka living will) naming someone you trust absolutely as your healthcare proxy. Make sure this is signed, notarized, and everyone (especially the proxy) has original, signed copies with notary stamps.
• Write out a list of every single account you can think of, including account numbers and login credentials, and make sure the executor (or trustee) of your estate/trust has an updated copy.
• Go into all your financial accounts and name TOD/POD beneficiaries (typically, your children and/or your executor)
• Give strong consideration to designating your most trusted younger relative, friend, or colleague as your durable power of attorney immediately after an initial diagnosis of any form of dementia, cancer, or progressive/degenerative condition. This can make end-of-life logistics much easier and hassle-free for everyone involved.

 

[Gallaher]

The saga continues!
But first thanks for all the introspective responses. I think a factor in today’s elder care is lifespans have suddenly increased dramatically.
Those born in 1930 live a lot longer than someone born in 1900. You know, medicine, nutrition, labor laws, seat belts, no smoking.
For some the “frail years” are a lot longer.

Back to the saga. MIL has been in and out of hospital last few months for a developing osteomyelitis (bone infection) after a dental procedure.
Yesterday She was discharged with instructions to seek medical help if swelling returns. This morning, FIL starts calling his kids to get someone to drive her to the ER due to swelling. This ER is a mile from their house in a small town. Finally the daughter who is a nurse says ‘get her a$$ to the hospital’.

Back to the point. Dont make your kids take care of you. Not their job.
Thanks for the rant. Wish I could buy you all a beer. But I hardly drink anymore myself

 

[Koolau]

Family dynamics are incredibly varied. I felt obligated to look after my parents - not because they demanded it but because they had given so much of themselves to me when I was young and vulnerable. They weren't perfect parents but their love always shone through. They did the best that they could do. I'd like to think I did the best I could do for them.

I'm thankful that I was close by and was able to look in on them as often as needed. There were some trying times, but mostly I look back with fond memories of my parents' passage from robust and engaged to frail and demented. I learned to laugh instead of cry.

If I have negative feelings, I suppose it would be that my older sister never lifted a finger to help or even visit when our parents needed them most. I think she was simply incapable of dealing with the issues of watching them slip away from us. I (think I) have forgiven her.

DW and I also took care of her parents though we did get some help from her older brother. MIL was more demanding than my parents. But I had spent the better part of my life protecting DW from her demanding mother. So it had become second nature to me to protect her and not "allow" MIL to dominate our lives. I think we struck the right balance with both sets of parents as they slipped away.

We have no idea how our lives will turn out. I pray often for a simple failure to wake up some morning but know the odds are against that simple, sweet passage. How our kids will react to any needs we might have, I do not know. We have made zero demands upon them so far and hope that we never do. In so far as it's possible, we've "insulated" ourselves by setting aside (we hope) enough money to take care of ourselves when/if the time comes.

Blessings to all here as we face our own family dynamics. Here is hoping for the best possible outcomes that our own preparations and our kids' love can provide as we fade away.

 

[Aerides]

Old folks today grew up helping their parents when they got old, so of course they feel entitled to the same treatment when it's their own time.

One would think/hope, that such folks would recognize how hard it was, and plan to avoid burdening their children with the same outcome. Kind of like people who grow up and swear to be better parents to their children? I know not all do, but most try.

A plan that depends on your children, when you have means (ie, almost everyone here) is a failure of a plan.

 

[skipro33]

One would think/hope, that such folks would recognize how hard it was, and plan to avoid burdening their children with the same outcome. Kind of like people who grow up and swear to be better parents to their children? I know not all do, but most try.

A plan that depends on your children, when you have means (ie, almost everyone here) is a failure of a plan.

I know I wanted a better life for me and my kids than my folks had and that I don't want to burden my kids in that way, but still, it's harsh to hear, "no way, no how" when so much was sacrificed for their sakes and still is.
But better to come to grips with it while I'm still mentally able. It does beg the question though, who should you put down for medical durable power of attorney when you can't make medical decisions, and even more; financial POA. Will they do what's in our best interests or theirs? It's something to discuss with your estate planning attorney for sure! Reminds me of something I once heard a son tell his parents, "We are going to put you in The Home soon if you don't quit acting up. And not the good one either, but the one I saw on 60 Minutes!" They were kidding of course. I think... Ha!

 

[athena53]

I think modern medicine has exarcerbated this problem ... used to be, you'd have a "major" medical
issue and it would kill you in your bed, at home, overnite. Done.

Now, you are likely to survive a major medical issue, not without at least an large uptick in doctor visits, lab tests, increased Rx , etc. and probably with some kind of functional loss , be it physical or mental. Once in the system, its hard to get out

I agree. Right now my DIL is running her mother back and forth to chemo for pancreatic cancer. Fortunately it was discovered extremely early so it has a chance of success, but DIL is also a full-time mother who home-schools 3 kids.

One major reason for my plan to move into a retirement community near them (3 hours from where I live now) is that I don't want them having to try and support me from 3 hours away as I age. Fortunately I'm financially solvent and can move on my own terms while I'm still young enough (73) to drive safely, manage my finances etc. and can build a bit of a life there. Of course I'm also looking forward to giving up home and garden maintenance. If I need long-term care someday I don't want them scrambling to find a decent facility that accepts Medicaid.

My parents were the same so I guess I learned from them. Mom died of a recurrence of breast cancer that she chose not to treat at age 85 and Dad died 4 years later after 18 months in LTC, which he paid for. I remember that my maternal grandmother took in her elderly parents an an older house that didn't have bedrooms or a bathroom on the main floor. I still remember the potty chair in the entrance hall. They were eventually put in a nursing home (they had "senile psychosis" and Great-Grandpa would try to hit people with his cane) and didn't last long there. Grandma earned later that she'd had a heart attack while caring for them.

I won't put my son and his family through that.

 

[pacergal]

It's been about 8 years since we updated everything, so probably time to review again. I just completed our own variance of "NOKbox" in a large binder. Kids know where it is, and at some point in the near future, we will probably bring them UTD on finances. They both know we have enough to get us through, even paying for last few years of LTC if needed--at least according to all the calculators I have run!
Both kids have said they would take us in if needed. Bless them. But I hope that is not needed.

My Mom passed suddenly and my sibs and I took care of Dad in his home until the end, about 7 years after Mom.
Early in our marriage, DH and I took in his Mom until her cancer care was more than we could do, then she went into a care home, Not Willingly. That was hard on DH.

 

[projectmaximus]

I am first generation American and an only child in an Asian culture where it's absolutely expected that I will take care of my parents when they need it. My wife is exactly the same (except she has one sibling) so it's something that we've discussed somewhat openly with all our parents.

The fortunate thing for us is that our parents are still married and are in very good shape financially. I have quite a few friends from Asian cultures, also first gen immigrants, who are supporting their parents into their late years.

Anyway, just an interesting topic as it varies wildly depending on culture. For my personal situation, thankfully 1) the finances are not an issue 2) the desire to help in every capacity is not an issue, (I personally handled 24/7 home care in the weeks after both of my parents had major surgeries) BUT 3) the logistics are. We live very happily in Taiwan. Parents live very happily in Florida. I know they'd rather not move permanently to where we are. When the time comes, someone will have to compromise.

 

[Gallaher]

Interesting to hear comments and perspectives. I like stories like projectmaximus shares above. I really appreciate cultures that take care of their loved ones.
In the case of my in-laws, FIL would not even sign a will until a hospital caseworker shamed him into it when he was 90 yo. He would chuckle “let the kids fight over it”. My wife finally squared that up.
I think “taking care of your kids” can be as simple as completing advance directives or separately, investing enough to lighten financial burden from your generations.
FIL likes to tell me how he made $326k in 1976 (farming). But he blew it on on tractors, combines, pickups and was broke in less than five years. Didn’t save a dime for his kids or even his own retirement, nothing. That’s like $3mill today.
His three college graduates daughters had to scrap it on their own. Now he wants them to move in and take of him. Literally

 

[Gumby]

The best thing my parents did for me was to divorce each other and marry younger, healthier spouses with their own kids. Especially since I never lived within a thousand miles of either of them from the day I left home until they died 40 years later.

 

[deserat]

I feel for the OP - it is difficult to determine what one owes to the different generations. I have no children, so do need to figure out a plan. As for my parents, I believed I needed to support them the best way I could for them to pass with dignity. With each of them that meant different things. I also had to navigate issues with their current spouses and the children of those spouses. It was not and has not been a picnic. Nevertheless, the main thing for me is to be able to look myself in the mirror and not feel guilt with regard to what I could have done. They were both fairly independent and did not demand anything of me. I think they knew I considered a duty and honor to be able to help them if needed. Interestingly, it was my grandparents' ideas regarding support that I fell back on. Also, interestingly, on both sides of my family, the grandparents had had to support their in-laws by having them live with them and they all swore they would never do that to their children....now for the step-relatives....another story. Can be very difficult to thread the needle of expectations. As with anything, this too shall pass.

 

[Gallaher]

The best thing my parents did for me was to divorce each other and marry younger, healthier spouses with their own kids. Especially since I never lived within a thousand miles of either of them from the day I left home until they died 40 years later.

ABSOLUTELY !

 

[Dtail]

The mom of my fiance is not on speaking terms with her mother and thus no expectations of care, etc. There are other siblings.
There is an irrevocable trust for my mom, health care directive, will, POD beneficiaries, plus a LTC policy. Plus there is also an understanding that I take care of all things financial and the other siblings who live reasonably close by do the rest.
Dads have passed on both sides.
More work to do on our sides. We have various legal documents done. The non finance side is not quite in place yet.

 

[deserat]

The best thing my parents did for me was to divorce each other and marry younger, healthier spouses with their own kids. Especially since I never lived within a thousand miles of either of them from the day I left home until they died 40 years later.

ABSOLUTELY !

Well, that's another approach! And one that I can understand...hehe