Talk me through being relegated at work

[chemEguy]

I alluded to this in my introductory post but I wanted to start a separate discussion because, if I’m being honest with myself, it’s really bothering me and I wanted to air it out.

Synopsis…I’m 51, engineer, individual contributor, mega Corp. I’m married and my wife is waaay higher up her corporate food chain than I am, way higher. One kid in college, one starting college next year. Been with my employer for about 20 years. Together we make a very good income.

Starting in our mid 20s, I was super aggressive with saving and sensible with investing. That has paid off and it made pushing for more responsibility later on unnecessary. That was fortunate because it gave me the freedom to neglect my career advancement to ensure that, for the better part of a decade, I didn’t miss any sports, school, or extracurricular activities that my kids were doing in school. And I didn’t.

However, I knew eventually that decision would return to haunt me. It has. It has very recently become apparent that I am now totally relegated at work. I now report to a young engineer that I interviewed to join the group just a couple of years ago. Last week I had to sit down and review what I’m working on with him and will need his approval before things can go out the door…keep in mind that I brought him up to speed on his role since he came on board. So sitting there listening to him tell me what would be “good for me to work on” is more than just a bit condescending.

Tough to swallow? Uncomfortable? A bit humiliating? Yes, yes, and yes.

Is it megacorp’s desire for me to stay on in my role? I think so, yes.

The problem I’m having is best expressed as a football analogy. There are 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter, I’ve got the ball at the opponent’s 32 yard line, it’s second down and 9. I’m winning 20 to 7. I can’t quite run out the clock yet, I still need to run a few more plays to put things away for good. I don’t even need to score, just pick up a first down or two. The chances of my opponent making a comeback are nearly zero if I just play the game a LITTLE longer. But I just got blitzed and driven into the ground on the last play, am seeing stars, and I really want to go to the sidelines. But that’s not an option because there’s no backup. If I want the win, I have to stay in and take a few more hard shots. Not just hard shots, but the hardest ones yet.

Like the analogy?

In real talk, it’s probably 3 years. Maybe 4 at the most. The salary is really just about shielding the portfolio from expenses for the final push.

Thanks for reading to the end and please feel free to throw some encouragement my way!

 

[Texas Proud]

Welllll, I did not interview the young guy that I had as a boss but some similar ideas... I did not have a family but wanted a good work/life balance and had one... so young gun was trying to tell me what I needed to do to get ahead... I had to stop him and say 'I am not looking to get ahead so I do not need a plan'... he pushed back a bit but I got it across that I was here to do the work assigned to me and high tail it out the door... he got it...

Bad news for me was that was the point in my career that I was getting a new manager every few months... some were 'scared' to confront me as they had heard about me... others were actually smart and knew what they were doing but normally would let me do my thing...

You have to flesh out what power your boss has to get rid of you... mine had almost zero so I knew I could do what I was doing and the higher ups would not get rid of me as I did really good work...

Eventually the job became too much time commitment and I moved on on my own...

 

[HawkOwl]

Ultimately, why do you work? For 30 years, my answer was that I work to earn money with which to support me and my family. If that is the case for you, I would advise buckling down, and do what you have to do to finish out the last five minutes of the football game. If you work for anything else- personal pride, accolades, bits of colored ribbon- I don’t know what to tell you, as I have never been in that position.

 

[Aerides]

You're 51 and in IT? If you "need" 3 more years, you need to do the following:

- Check out your company severance policy. Understand it, know exactly how much you will get. 20 years at a megacorp might be a pretty good number. 26 at mine got me a year+benefits.

- Understand where you rank on your team. Pay attention to this. Your goal for the next 3 years (or 2) is to make sure that you are in the top 50%, and definitely never in the bottom third. This means paying more attention in meetings to body language, and who is hanging out with the boss more than others. It doesn't mean you become best friends, you just make sure you rank solidly.

- Work out of your office vs. WFH as much as possible. Especially for any meetings where more than 2 ppl are in person. Be present.

- Get over the humiliation, it's not personal, it's happening in every single team in every company you know. If something is described as "good for you" to work on, accept it thankfully and cheerfully, agreeably.

- Present yourself in appearance as under-50. Look at your wardrobe (I know, engineer means beige dockers and blue shirt). Get rid of any short sleeves. Don't try to dress like a 25 yo, but don't dress like the guys you know are gonna be ax'd at the next RIF. Ask your wife and kids for tips here, don't be shy.

 

[FiveDriver]

First off, I would ask when does your Age and Years of Service get you a Full Pension ? Also, what's the Level of College Funding for both Kids ?

Answers to those questions might provide you with a convenient Exit Date.

I think your Football Analogy might be a little off the mark. You are playing a 2 Person Game with your Wife as your Partner......think Doubles Tennis or Pickleball. Your Opponent is also a 2 Person team, your young gun Boss and the person he's taking his orders from.

How does Your Team come out on top in this Matchup ??

 

[CardsFan]

You're 51 and in IT? If you "need" 3 more years, you need to do the following:

Since his name is chemEguy, I am guessing not IT, but maybe I missed it. But your list of things to do is pretty much on target

 

[jollystomper]

It has very recently become apparent that I am now totally relegated at work. I now report to a young engineer that I interviewed to join the group just a couple of years ago. Last week I had to sit down and review what I’m working on with him and will need his approval before things can go out the door…keep in mind that I brought him up to speed on his role since he came on board. So sitting there listening to him tell me what would be “good for me to work on” is more than just a bit condescending.

Is your issue with your new manager the facts that (a) he is younger and (b) that you helped hire and train him?

Is he a competent manager?

 

[sakowitzm]

Well... not crazy about the analogy! But that's neither here nor there.
My answer is basically to suck it up and (try to) enjoy the ride. Here was my experience....
After 30 years in the business, and being pretty much an expert in my area, I changed jobs. I thought they wanted me to run the entire proposal shop. It turns out they just wanted me to be an editor! Well, at first I had a similar reaction to you. But then I realized -- hey, if they're going to pay me this salary to do that, well, that's just fine. I won't have to work as hard but get the same salary. Win! A few years later I changed jobs again and this time, at the age of 50+ my manager was maybe 30. We developed a very good relationship (we still go for coffee once or twice a year), and I just came in every day and did my job. Life was good; I was very capable and wasn't under any stress about the job, etc.

So my advice to you is to learn to relax about it all. You've said that they need you, want you to stay. And you're undoubtedly very good at what you do. Just roll with it!

 

[MichaelB]

Really good suggestions from Aerides. Being visible in the office is especially important.

I once was that young guy. It was never personal, and at least in my mind it was never condescending. For me it wasn’t about how old people were, it was always about how much and how well they embraced the objectives I set and then contributed to reaching them.

A skills self-assessment might help. I worked in tech with lots of engineers and the biggest factor affecting the older engineers was their skills and knowledge weren’t up to date.

 

[Exchme]

Companies are always looking to promote, or even over-promote, young folks. They have to, if everyone took years per step on the ladder, no one would reach the top. The bigger the company, the faster they have to go and the more steps they have to skip. So get used to the up-and-comers being your boss.

One way to ease folks into supervision is to give them a strong team, maybe management identified you as easy to supervise and competent so that if he starts making silly mistakes you could counsel him in a manner that will be supportive without undermining him.

I still work part time and nearly everyone I work with is younger than me. I figure that in addition to doing the job description, part of the value I bring is to teach, train and guide the youngsters. I just embrace the role and take pride in the accomplishments of the folks I helped along the way.

 

[chemEguy]

First off, I would ask when does your Age and Years of Service get you a Full Pension ? Also, what's the Level of College Funding for both Kids ?

Answers to those questions might provide you with a convenient Exit Date.

I think your Football Analogy might be a little off the mark. You are playing a 2 Person Game with your Wife as your Partner......think Doubles Tennis or Pickleball. Your Opponent is also a 2 Person team, your young gun Boss and the person he's taking his orders from.

How does Your Team come out on top in this Matchup ??

No pension here.

But I did play tennis for a very long time. Let’s go with that one!

Ok, doubles, best of five sets even though we’re playing mixed.

7-6
6-2
4-3

Opponent just broke my serve last game after being up 40-love and expecting to go up 5-2.

 

[chemEguy]

All of you are correct and on a basic, logical level I know this. Right now I’m just really displeased, even though nothing that happened surprised me. It’s the difference between knowing it will happen and then living it in real time.

I laid out my financial situation in my intro post, I suspect should you read it you’ll tell me to stop whining.

Sometimes you just need to vent in a place where it’s not going to burn you.

 

[Lorenzo]

I can relate to making a decision mid-career that other things may make me happier in the long run than climbing the corporate (or in my case, partnership) ladder. No kids here, but twice over the years I quit a perfectly good position to be a travel bum--and it was the best decision I have made in my life (except for marrying my wife, of course). The memories are priceless. But I effectively sabotaged a career that could have made me wealthy had I kept nose to grindstone. I'd say I have been relegated to mere worker bee for the past 15 years or more, though I have downshifted to part time. The customer to whom I provide my output generally has someone younger and less experienced than I telling me exactly what they want me to do (micromanaging, that is). Oh well. The path I took was my choice, and I'm good with it.

My wife has a modest career, but loves her job, and they appreciate and respect her. I get my career satisfaction vicariously through her. Together we will be fine financially, I think. So, for me, maybe the proverbial One More Year?

If I were you, I would tough it out. Three or four years is no big deal.

 

[gamboolman]

Chem,

ETA - well done on spending time with your kids. The right decision for sure in my experience !

You said the next 3 or 4 years is just shielding the Portfolio. That's a long time to stew....especially given your circumstances....

I was caught up in megaoil corp worldwide reshuffle during what turned out to be my last year.

I ended up with a Kid Boss who was a political animal who also checked off most all of the "boxes"

My last year, I was a RIPPER, Retired In Place Pending Early Retirement,

It was not easy for me. I would be lying if I said otherwise.

Honestly, I suffered from the "Legend In My Own Mind" malady to a good bit.

It was quite shocking to me when Megaoil Corp never called me after I retired to come back and save them from themselves... ha !

The first 6 months after your gone, everyone will blame any issues or problems on you, and will take credit for anything you did that was a "Win".
Soon after that, no one will hardly recall you at all.

Retirement is much more better, in fact it's wonderful.

All the best sir.

Obligatory picture follows....

 

[jollystomper]

A skills self-assessment might help. I worked in tech with lots of engineers and the biggest factor affecting the older engineers was their skills and knowledge weren’t up to date.

I still work part time and nearly everyone I work with is younger than me. I figure that in addition to doing the job description, part of the value I bring is to teach, train and guide the youngsters. I just embrace the role and take pride in the accomplishments of the folks I helped along the way.

There is much wisdom in these two quotes.

I always sought to work on emerging technologies that Megacorp deemed (or that I thought Megacorp should deem) important. Sometimes this meant learning them on my own time, in my home computing lab. But it always paid off, as I was always sought to be part of efforts with Megacorp clients around these technologies.

During the "glide path" to retirement, I shifted my actions more towards "mentoring". I did not focus on any promotions, salary increases, or bonuses. In truth, retirement was the best "promotion" I could see at that point . I put more of a focus on being willing work with, train, and even take direction from younger people. Long story short, I was not seen as "old", but as someone everyone wanted to work with. One younger worker gave me a compliment "you are demand because you're smart, like to learn, listen to us, and we learn from you. If we do something wrong, you do not bite our head off, but take it in stride and help us learn from our mistakes".

Interestingly, these actions ended up helping me to continue getting salary increases, and bonuses came even after I retired.

 

[Gumby]

When I was young, some of the guys working under my supervision were older than me, though most were younger. And when I was older, in a different job, some of the guys who were my supervisors were younger than me, though most were older. Age is largely irrelevant. We all have our particular place as a cog on the gearwheel of life. Just do what you know how to do, stay in everyone's good graces and finish out your game plan with honor. Also, listen to Aerides ^^^ to make these next couple of years easier.

 

[bloom2708]

I'm 53, my manager is 37. He wants to work harder and longer than I do. I am happy to work less. He is happy to work more. Win-win.

Coast downhill and don't feel bad about it. I do fast, quality work but don't put in any extra time unless it is an emergency type scenario. If they ask me to do more or something different, I'll probably quit.

 

[Route246]

I was IC my entire engineering career until a few years ago I got persuaded to take on tech lead responsibilities. I made it clear I did not want to be a manager. Bad luck would have it is that I did such a good job as tech lead I was promoted without my knowledge. My manager just came to me one day and congratulated me. Of course a big bump in my package which I really didn't care about as I was FI by then and just enjoying my work. I've become a "player's coach" and don't follow the politics, ambition and games and just watch out for my team. It does me points but I'm leaving next year and nobody knows my plans.

One thing I learned being in management is every manager has a different perception of the job. It sounds like your manager is just checking the boxes and doing what is deemed appropriate. If I were you I would just roll with the punches, "yes, sir, yes ma'am" and be done with it and feel fortunate to be in your spot.

Anyway, I requested multiple times to be "demoted" back to IC but they look at me like I'm crazy.

 

[CardsFan]

All of you are correct and on a basic, logical level I know this. Right now I’m just really displeased, even though nothing that happened surprised me. It’s the difference between knowing it will happen and then living it in real time.

I laid out my financial situation in my intro post, I suspect should you read it you’ll tell me to stop whining.

Sometimes you just to vent in a place where it’s not going to burn you.

Venting can be good. Feel free to do it here.

In my last position at MegaCorp my Boss was someone I had hired years before. He was younger, but only by 10-15 years.

I say give the "young whippersnapper" a bit of a chance. If you can get to the point of mutual respect, life could actually be good for the last few years.

 

[socca]

Aerides recommends that you continue to "play the company's game" if not to win, then at least not to lose before you hit your number. You have another option: mentally resign as W-2 employee and continue to work as an independent 1099 contractor. You trade your time and skills for money. You run your own business, which means keeping an eye on your personal (and family) P&L and Balance Sheet. You are your own boss; your company's boss is "the client". The company's "game" is no longer your "game".

I found this perspective very helpful when megacorp was driving me crazy. YMMV.

 

[REWahoo]

I laid out my financial situation in my intro post, I suspect should you read it you’ll tell me to stop whining.

Does your employer know that clairvoyance is one of the many skills you posses?

 

[Midpack]

That has paid off and it made pushing for more responsibility later on unnecessary. That was fortunate because it gave me the freedom to neglect my career advancement to ensure that, for the better part of a decade, I didn’t miss any sports, school, or extracurricular activities that my kids were doing in school. And I didn’t.

However, I knew eventually that decision would return to haunt me. It has. It has very recently become apparent that I am now totally relegated at work. I now report to a young engineer that I interviewed to join the group just a couple of years ago. Last week I had to sit down and review what I’m working on with him and will need his approval before things can go out the door…keep in mind that I brought him up to speed on his role since he came on board. So sitting there listening to him tell me what would be “good for me to work on” is more than just a bit condescending.

Tough to swallow? Uncomfortable? A bit humiliating? Yes, yes, and yes.

Is it megacorp’s desire for me to stay on in my role? I think so, yes.

You chose to emphasize family over maximizing career potential, nothing whatsoever wrong with that. But it didn’t occur to you then that inevitably some younger more career focused employees (plural) would pass you on the org chart? In time, younger more ambitious employees will develop broader and/or better skills than you’ve chosen to cultivate.

I understand how you might find your situation “condescending” - but the “young engineer” is trying to do his/her job. Look at all sides.

Sorry, but while I was working I knew several older less motivated employees who faced your situation. Some actively resisted change and a few even refused to stay technically up to date, and then complained when others passed them by - I am not saying the OP falls into this pattern, no idea. From the outside it’s understandable.

Your football analogy isn’t accurate. If you haven’t been playing to (career) win for most of 20 years, you weren’t leading 20 to 7…

 

[FlaGator]

Consider re-orienting your thinking to what you were able to accomplish with your family while still earning a nice salary.

There are no solutions, only trade-offs, and you made those trade-offs years ago. You were there for your kids at a critical point in their lives and allowed your wife to hit the afterburner on her career. Years after the fact is not the time to second-guess or wallow in what could have been for your career.

I also made a family choice to stop working and raise kids after my wife/SAHM died 10 years ago. I was able to be a daily presence in their lives and be an active volunteer in their chosen activities. Yes, there was an emotional/social cost to me, but they benefited from that decision.

Having a good income and living modestly provides choices when you least expect to need them. You've done very well, consider some of the advice above about getting to the end. But be satisfied you made good choices along the way.

 

[PlayinwithFIRE]

If you are trying to relate thru analogies at work, you're gonna get fired. lol

Lots of good advice here, depending on how much office politics you are willing to stomach , the answer varies..sounds like you lean toward not wanting to put up with it/play that game.

Hardest part is realizing they don't need you, and they don't have to respect you for time served. Can be a blow to an ego that has gotten comfortable thinking they did for the last 20 years or whatever its been.

Part of the reason they don't need you is they can replace you with a fresh kid at 50K less per year who can ChatGPT his chemistry problems.

You stick out on the HR spreadsheet as an expensive employee. Would you be willing to take a pay cut ? Find out what the similar positions are being hired in at..then you know how big the gap might be. It might not be a gap that financially can be overcome.

good luck finding the solution that is comfortable for you.

pwf

 

[marko]

You stick out on the HR spreadsheet as an expensive employee. Would you be willing to take a pay cut ? Find out what the similar positions are being hired in at..then you know how big the gap might be. It might not be a gap that financially can be overcome.

good luck finding the solution that is comfortable for you.

pwf

+1. When the new company acquired us, I had two problems: I was making more than the new CEO and.....I was 50 years old. In this case, I'm not sure if the issue is wages but more of age. Old dogs, new tricks and all that. Ageism is very real; a pay cut or learning new skills won't fix anything.

OP chose to not play the game in favor of family. Good for him in that regard, but there's a price to pay for that and the invoice is in front of him every time he sits down with "junior".

Personally, I'd say pull the plug. Option #2: Keep your head down, say "yes sir!" and count the days.