Talk me through being relegated at work

[tulak]

So sitting there listening to him tell me what would be “good for me to work on” is more than just a bit condescending.

I’m not sure why this has to be bad?

He’s your manager. He’s in meetings with other managers and likely has a better idea of what is currently valued in the organization. You may or may not be aware of those things as an IC, since you’re not included in those discussions?

You can’t fight your manager. You should listen to what he is saying and make sure that you are aligned. If you’re not, or you fight it, you will lose. Managers always win, even the incompetent ones.

I tell my kids one thing: always be slightly better than average.

This is where you rank with everyone else on your team and you shouldn’t be at the bottom.

I agree with others that visibility matters. Convey that you are engaged in your job and the easiest way to do that is just being around and available to help out.

Good luck! 3 years isn’t too bad. As long as there aren’t layoffs, you should be able to get through these years easily enough.

 

[chemEguy]

+1. When the new company acquired us, I had two problems: I was making more than the new CEO and.....I was 50 years old. In this case, I'm not sure if the issue is wages but more of age. Old dogs, new tricks and all that. Ageism is very real; a pay cut won't fix anything.

OP chose to not play the game in favor of family. Good for him in that regard, but there's a price to pay for that and the invoice is in front of him every time he sits down with "junior".

Personally, I'd say pull the plug. Option #2: Keep your head down, say "yes sir!" and count the days.

Yep, you’re spot on in your assessment. I knew I’d get to this point eventually and here we are. So again, it’s not a surprise…but I still don’t like it.

I’d pull the plug now but that would be unfair to my wife who is working in our home office as I type this while I take a short break from my book. She did hit the afterburner about a decade ago as suggested above.

FIREcalc says 100% in three years…that’s inclusive of two college tuitions.

Plus, I have a career defining project (compared to a lot of meaningless work I did) for which I was primarily responsible for developing now with the execution team. It’s a few years from coming online and I very much want to be there when that happens. Massive revenue for the company as well.

Leaving now would prevent me from being there when we flip the switch, so back to the office I go with a smile on my face.

 

[chemEguy]

I’m not sure why this has to be bad?

He’s your manager. He’s in meetings with other managers and likely has a better idea of what is currently valued in the organization. You may or may not be aware of those things as an IC, since you’re not included in those discussions?

You can’t fight your manager. You should listen to what he is saying and make sure that you are aligned. If you’re not, or you fight it, you will lose. Managers always win, even the incompetent ones.

I tell my kids one thing: always be slightly better than average.

This is where you rank with everyone else on your team and you shouldn’t be at the bottom.

I agree with others that visibility matters. Convey that you are engaged in your job and the easiest way to do that is just being around and available to help out.

Good luck! 3 years isn’t too bad. As long as there aren’t layoffs, you should be able to get through these years easily enough.

I hear you, but he’s been in the role for one week. Two weeks ago I was providing guidance when he was looking for input.

 

[tulak]

I hear you, but he’s been in the role for one week. Two weeks ago I was providing guidance when he was looking for input.

Well, that’s rough. Hopefully he’s trying though. If he’s new to being a manager, it takes time to get your footing, especially if you haven’t been around that long.

Either way, it’s a great opportunity to become an asset to him. Take him seriously and help him succeed in his role. I appreciate the employees that make my job easier. Not everyone is easy to manage.

 

[engineernerd]

Yep, you’re spot on in your assessment. I knew I’d get to this point eventually and here we are. So again, it’s not a surprise…but I still don’t like it.

I’d pull the plug now but that would be unfair to my wife who is working in our home office as I type this while I take a short break from my book. She did hit the afterburner about a decade ago as suggested above.

FIREcalc says 100% in three years…that’s inclusive of two college tuitions.

So what percent does FIRECalc say for quitting now, or a year from now? And do you have other realistic options for generating income besides continuing with your current employer/situation?

None of us here knows whether your new boss deserves your respect and forebearance or is just an arrogant jerk and/or idiot itching to throw you under a bus. Only you are there in person and can get the vibes that tell you whether he will treat you fairly and decently or not.

I'd say wait out your initial emotional reaction and pay attention to how your boss treats you (and others). Also, if you can, try to get a feel for how much power in the company he actually has.

If you decide staying will make you miserable, talk it over with your wife.

Plus, I have a career defining project (compared to a lot of meaningless work I did) for which I was primarily responsible for developing now with the execution team. It’s a few years from coming online and I very much want to be there when that happens. Massive revenue for the company as well.

Leaving now would prevent me from being there when we flip the switch, so back to the office I go with a smile on my face.

If your new boss cuts you out of the process and changes everything you did, that switch-flipping day won't be so sweet. Pay attention to the signs that show his character as well as whether he values you and your contributions.

Best of luck!

 

[dmpi]

If this happens to you, the silver lining is if there's golden parachute retirement buy out you'll be asked to participate. My wife & I both ended up with one. Easily worth six figures.

 

[Koolau]

All of you are correct and on a basic, logical level I know this. Right now I’m just really displeased, even though nothing that happened surprised me. It’s the difference between knowing it will happen and then living it in real time.

I laid out my financial situation in my intro post, I suspect should you read it you’ll tell me to stop whining.

Sometimes you just need to vent in a place where it’s not going to burn you.

I get it. I w*rked my whole career to carve out a niche for myself at Megacorp. I accomplished it and was pretty happy with the results. BUT it also meant that my w*rk was only noticed if I screwed up and I tried not to do that.

So my w*rk wasn't particularly appreciated except in some really small circles. Every time my management changed, they got younger and younger and they were less able to see my contributions. So, salary and promotions were harder to come by.

Eventually, I just decided this was my lot. I was doing what I wanted to do and what I was good at. Few people hassled me and I had a fair amount of freedom. I got chances to dive back into the rough and tumble competitive game - but I chose NOT to. SO that was on me. I decided the money was good (not great), the w*rk was very good (is it ever great?), management usually left me alone, I didn't have to w*rk a lot of free overtime. So I stayed on until management decided to change my j*b. That's when I balked and that's when I left (the next week.)

Yeah, we sympathize with you. Now get back to it and make some money for retirement and forget the crap that we all sooner or later have to take. Why do you think they call it w*rk??

 

[chemEguy]

So what percent does FIRECalc say for quitting now, or a year from now? And do you have other realistic options for generating income besides continuing with your current employer/situation?

None of us here knows whether your new boss deserves your respect and forebearance or is just an arrogant jerk and/or idiot itching to throw you under a bus. Only you are there in person and can get the vibes that tell you whether he will treat you fairly and decently or not.

I'd say wait out your initial emotional reaction and pay attention to how your boss treats you (and others). Also, if you can, try to get a feel for how much power in the company he actually has.

If you decide staying will make you miserable, talk it over with your wife.


If your new boss cuts you out of the process and changes everything you did, that switch-flipping day won't be so sweet. Pay attention to the signs that show his character as well as whether he values you and your contributions.

Best of luck!

Thankfully that can’t happen. We’re in the build phase and all the client paperwork is signed in ink. Plus, he knows literally nothing about the project, ironically I started it around the time I was interviewing him to come into our group.

Running FIREcalc with a 205K spend, (we want 165K after tax as that’s what we’re at now) SS for both of us at 62, and three portfolio adjustments to cover remaining college, plus what we add yearly says:

2024 - 84.5%
2025 - 94.5%
2026 - 98%
2027 - 100%

It’s looking good, we’re close.

 

[Qs Laptop]

I love your football analogy. I would say you need to get back in there and show the team you can get that one more first down to clinch the victory. Then go to the bench.

I think you should be praised for putting your kids first during their school years. A few years from now, in retrospect, you will truly realize that was the most valuable thing you could have done, and the extra money you would have earned is nowhere near the treasure you gave your kids and the satisfaction you got by a job well done being a dad.

 

[Texas Proud]

I get it. I w*rked my whole career to carve out a niche for myself at Megacorp. I accomplished it and was pretty happy with the results. BUT it also meant that my w*rk was only noticed if I screwed up and I tried not to do that.

So my w*rk wasn't particularly appreciated except in some really small circles. Every time my management changed, they got younger and younger and they were less able to see my contributions. So, salary and promotions were harder to come by.

Eventually, I just decided this was my lot. I was doing what I wanted to do and what I was good at. Few people hassled me and I had a fair amount of freedom. I got chances to dive back into the rough and tumble competitive game - but I chose NOT to. SO that was on me. I decided the money was good (not great), the w*rk was very good (is it ever great?), management usually left me alone, I didn't have to w*rk a lot of free overtime. So I stayed on until management decided to change my j*b. That's when I balked and that's when I left (the next week.)

Yeah, we sympathize with you. Now get back to it and make some money for retirement and forget the crap that we all sooner or later have to take. Why do you think they call it w*rk??

LOL... yea, having mgmt changes can lead to some bad outcomes for some...

At my last mega they brought in a very young (to me) lady who did not have enough knowledge to do the job... a high level female insisted she get the job as she was trying to promote women...

There were a few people doing work around the country and a group in NY... well, she started to get rid of the non NY people... so she has a meeting in NY and asked me to show someone how I did this and that... kinda puts the writing on the wall... so after I am let go things kept coming up to the group that did not happen often... she would ask, 'who did this?'.... answer Texas did... nobody else knew how to do it... from what I was told that happened at least 6 times in the year... I laugh at this...

BTW, she also let go of long term people in NY as they were not doing what she wanted.... but two years later she was let go for not being able to do the job properly... but too late for the people she let go..

 

[Gremlin]

Over the almost 30 years of my career, it took me too long to learn that resentment is a soul sucking emotion and I was only hurting myself. My suggestion? If you plan on sticking it out give yourself x amount of time to wallow in it. Then dust yourself off and move on. Your life will be much better for it.

 

[HarveyS]

Why not re-frame the problem to something like this. I hired this guy. What can I do to make sure he meets his goals and objectives. Ask him what he wants, and how can you help him get it. Maybe set up meetings with others who are people he should have a relationship with in other departments.
This will give you purpose, and help him out as well.

 

[Lemonade]

I also thought about re-framing the issue, but maybe this will be helpful. You made sacrifices to spend time with your kids, and undoubtedly they (and YOU) benefited from that. Now - be the employee that you'd want for your young adult kids if they were managers. My daughter is not yet 30 and is leading projects. Not direct reports, but nevertheless, the person assigning tasks and asking for input/results. She has said it's strange to be in this position with older men 'reporting' to her, but her role is what it is. When you interviewed/hired your new boss, you thought they would be a good addition to the team. I assume that hasn't changed. So, ego aside, be a helpful supporter and not a hindrance. That young manager is someone else's kid who's just trying to figure out their role.

 

[chemEguy]

I also thought about re-framing the issue, but maybe this will be helpful. You made sacrifices to spend time with your kids, and undoubtedly they (and YOU) benefited from that. Now - be the employee that you'd want for your young adult kids if they were managers. My daughter is not yet 30 and is leading projects. Not direct reports, but nevertheless, the person assigning tasks and asking for input/results. She has said it's strange to be in this position with older men 'reporting' to her, but her role is what it is. When you interviewed/hired your new boss, you thought they would be a good addition to the team. I assume that hasn't changed. So, ego aside, be a helpful supporter and not a hindrance. That young manager is someone else's kid who's just trying to figure out their role.

All really good points, I appreciate this point of view.

 

[chemEguy]

All really good points, I appreciate this point of view.

Yikes. I just came back to my desk from a meeting chuckling and shaking my head. After one week my newly minted manager apparently became the smartest person in the room and seems pretty intent on setting everyone straight. I guess I didn’t appreciate the transformative power such a promotion can have. I sense the rise of a petty dictator but we shall see. The last time I had a manager younger than me she was outstanding in her role and I respect her immensely; I still enjoy working with her when I can. This…is taking a very different tone.

Ahh, good times!

 

[jazz4cash]

When I found myself at a similar stage, I still had good relationships with many managers that would’ve snapped me up if I became ‘available’. Some of them even had the power to withstand the political heat for bringing me on. I was an engineer that switched teams by going to sales. Changing functional roles at my shop was a good way to get around some of the BS. The only problem was that all those jobs were back at home office and I was not about to relocate.

Do you have relationships with any strong managers in other functional areas?

 

[Lemonade]

Yikes. I just came back to my desk from a meeting chuckling and shaking my head. After one week my newly minted manager apparently became the smartest person in the room and seems pretty intent on setting everyone straight. I guess I didn’t appreciate the transformative power such a promotion can have. I sense the rise of a petty dictator but we shall see. The last time I had a manager younger than me she was outstanding in her role and I respect her immensely; I still enjoy working with her when I can. This…is taking a very different tone.

Ahh, good times!

Yikes...the petty dictator may be some Major Dictator's kid!

Only you will know when it's more than you want to stick with. You have the funds to retire. Your wife may be more supportive than you're anticipating wrt you retiring earlier than she does.

 

[38Chevy454]

Evaluate what skills you have that are valuable to the company. Especially if they help your not easy replaceability. Try to work where you can be an asset, rather than just another cog in the system.

The other thing is use your FI to give you better attitude putting up with corporate BS. Be on the long term success goal (retirement in few years), instead of getting wrapped up in short term issues.

 

[Midpack]

Yikes. I just came back to my desk from a meeting chuckling and shaking my head. After one week my newly minted manager apparently became the smartest person in the room and seems pretty intent on setting everyone straight. I guess I didn’t appreciate the transformative power such a promotion can have. I sense the rise of a petty dictator but we shall see. The last time I had a manager younger than me she was outstanding in her role and I respect her immensely; I still enjoy working with her when I can. This…is taking a very different tone.

Ahh, good times!

Could just be growing pains in the new role, taking the responsibility seriously. If you worked well with the employee (now manager) before, give it a little time before concluding “petty dictator?” I’ve seen those situations fix themselves, and not. You can help (preferable IME), or let him/her learn the hard way…

 

[JoeWras]

Hang in there! Everyone above has excellent advice. I'll reiterate a few:
- Over 50 and male engineer, you are at a disadvantage. Deal with it. It is current reality in society. So it goes.
- Vent here, don't vent to friends and family. I did that too much in my last years. I regret that. I was a bore to them. Don't be a bore.
- Use these 3 years or so (according to your firecalc) to learn everything about early retirement. I hung on to 55 because it had advantages. Plan, learn, plan, act.
- Perhaps DW will want to get off the train then too. Mine did. If not, you'll need to have serious discussions about one working/one not before it happens. Literally hundreds of threads on this forum over the years.
- Informally assess yourself (mentioned earlier). I realized that I was way behind the tech curve. This was hard to admit, but once I admitted it to myself and confessed here, I felt better. Being salutatorian in H.S., and top 10% in Cum Laude in college, I was not used to being "up to snuff." At work, I fell behind. I came to accept that. 97% of engineers I work with never make a mistake. Amazing, isn't it? On this board, it is only about 60%. We're more mature. Yeah, it is hard to see yourself slip and not know everything. Engineers always over value their skills.

My falling behind was mostly due to taking care of my parents for 10 years. Family issues. Like someone else said, I'm proud I cared for my family more than learning some stupid software tool that will go stale in 3 years anyway.

Once I accepted things, I felt better at work, except for the fact the upper management became demanding on our hours and made us work holidays with no pay. I'm still not over that anger, but hey, I'm gone. I need to let it go.

 

[1242Vintage]

Fellow engineer here.

I had something similar happen five years before retirement.

I just did the minimum and waited it out. It was highly annoying watching a much less experienced “talent” higher up in the organization issue stupid commands and attempt to solve problems that he did not even begin to comprehend. His inexperience cost the organization significant time and money!

Took a couple years of extreme patience on my end but eventually took over as the principal engineer of the organization. Had fun while it lasted. Then Covid hit, the fun went away and I retired!

Best wishes on whatever you decide to do.

 

[chemEguy]

I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply with their own perspective on things as well as providing some good things to think about. I also appreciate that a least a few folks understand where I’m coming from but pragmatically point out that I’m best served to suck it up and just focus on the very close finish line given the FIREcalc numbers I’m getting.

 

[marko]

Running FIREcalc with a 205K spend, (we want 165K after tax as that’s what we’re at now) SS for both of us at 62, and three portfolio adjustments to cover remaining college, plus what we add yearly says:

2024 - 84.5%
2025 - 94.5%
2026 - 98%
2027 - 100%

It’s looking good, we’re close.

84% is a passing grade in every school I ever went to. Plus, there is enough "slop" in all these calculators to make 84% a 100%. It's just not that granular, IMO.

 

[l8_apex]

I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply with their own perspective on things as well as providing some good things to think about. I also appreciate that a least a few folks understand where I’m coming from but pragmatically point out that I’m best served to suck it up and just focus on the very close finish line given the FIREcalc numbers I’m getting.

Yes. I was in a similar position. For the last couple of years I would just say to myself (I'm gonna retire, I'm gonna retire) and stayed positive and uncritical of anything at work. That may seem simplistic or trite, but it helped reach the retirement date. I am happy and grateful to have made it to ER at my personal number, that's bigger than all of the internal politics that had to be swallowed at work.

 

[Gumby]

When I first started out in the Navy (where quitting was not an option) and had "difficult" supervisors, I comforted myself with this thought as I looked at them: "I'm leaving here in a few months to move on to a new duty station, but you'll be a jerk for your entire life. You'll die alone and unmourned." Not a particularly kind thought, but it made me better able to tolerate the situation.