Thanks for nothing, USAA

I just switched to USAA auto/home insurance (no investments with them though). They are one of the top rated Insurers - even though they only insure military past/present. I switched, due to the fact that A*RP jacked the rates up on our remaining car by 33%, when we sold our other car. A*RP had also raised our rates last year by aro. 10% on the cars/home policies (we've had no claims in over five years). USAA not only got us back to where we were on the multi car scenario, but beat the original A*RP rate with an upfront one-time $50.00 off for new customers. They also did beat A*RP's homeowner rate. FYI - Al*state was right there, but coverages were slightly better with USAA.

As for claims - suffered higher auto rates when one of our cars was hit in the parking lot of our temporary apartment in Texas, when we first moved there. Was parked in the private parking lot overnight, and the guy parked next to us damaged it when backing out to leave the next morning. Was not a resident, but incident was witnessed by another tenant who informed me. The police told me they had actually pulled the guy over and searched the vehicle when he parked next to our car that night. Needless to say - nothing ever came of it, and the police never gave me the info as to who it was that hit me. Would have been a worthless pursuit (if you know what I mean)...

Filed a claim - fixed the car. No rate increase or drop, but when we relocated again our insurance rate went up accordingly. When getting insurance quotes - that claim was held against us for getting the best competitive insurance rate (for three years). Only claim we've made where our insurance company had to pay in a long time (a longtime ago this also happened to us with a truck driver hit and run scenario, but was in Michigan, a no-fault state).

Why the story? for relating that I have been there, done that also, and to illustrate that insurers are not really "your friend". Their employees are instructed in how to handle all inquiries, and recorded calls are for their protection. All actions initiated would be documented for legal reasons - even if you end up filing no claim on the inquiry. They protect themselves from fraud with the clue reports - its real purpose, and (probably) use it to assess rates and whether or not to insure you or a property. It's good business practice and helps to keep rates competitive by avoiding losses and/or charging for high risk accordingly (all except exploiting clue reports for assessing your rates, but there is some movement by several states out there regulating this abuse). Seems like it should be illegal to rate fix or deny insurance based on just claims. Really comes across as a scare tactic to me. After all, claims are only paid for accidents. I don't, and never have worked for an insurance company.
 
Just got a call from a manager in the property claims division. I described my situation and he said he'd see what he can do, and he indicated that based on my explanation they clearly failed to educate the customer about what constitutes making a claim given that I stated my strong desire not to do so.

We'll see. Hopefully I'll get to change the thread title.
 
"Obtaining data" and blatantly initiating an action that they know the customer was dead set against are two different things, at least from a business ethics point of view if not a legal one.

... snip ...

In both cases the "professional" has steered someone into a decision that was not appropriate for their situation and their own clearly communicated desires.
Insurance rates are based on statistical models and client specific information. You gave them information. You told them you have dead trees on your property. Of course they're going to use it, it doesn't matter what you want. The core of their business is setting premiums based on all available information. It's the only fair way to do it.
 
Zig, did USAA get back to you?
Yesterday afternoon. The manager repeatedly admitted that they screwed it up by processing an inquiry as a claim and not "educating" me that what they were starting to do constituted initiating the claims process -- and said he was trying, but they won't budge on it (he said "can't" but that's a lame excuse).

In other words, "our mistakes are our customer's problems."

He got someone who is a manager in the department dealing with policy services and she insisted that state law makes this a non-event, even in the event of a real future claim or two. (I couldn't get them to put that in writing.) Still, I feel they dropped the ball by starting a process I didn't want to start.

Am starting to look at other options, though I'd likely have to move my umbrella if I did so. And it might be chopping off my nose to spite my face.
 
Last edited:
The manager repeatedly admitted that they screwed it up and said he was trying, but they won't budge on it...
That jibes with my understanding of how CLUE works. Every smidgen of available information goes into the program and once it's in it doesn't come out.
 
Ziggy,
Thanks for the heads-up. I didn't know things worked like this. I agree that you might as well raise your deductible if you're already disinclined to submit a claim now.

All this also reinforces my existing inclination to self-insure as much as possible.

Does this policy open the door to mischief? Do insurance companies authenticate callers? If you are having a bad fight with your nasty neighbor and know who their insurer is, seems it would be pretty easy to pose as them and make an informal inquiry about the coverage for the leaky pipe under "your" slab and the resulting back mold in your walls. "Oh, okay, never mind." There, let's see them undo that.
 
Just a word on USAA, their service has gone downhill recently. I had a power failure in the middle if an ATM transaction while traveling in Indonesia. The transaction registered successful at USAA, but I lost my card and no money. It took 6 months to straighten things out, but I got my money back.

On the plus side, they are one of the few banks that don't charge an ATM fee for using ATM machines at other banks. The foreign money exchange rate is always great. Free money transfer between Credit Card to Checking Account. The ATM card works at most ATM machines around the world, and they have an international toll free number - which is nice.

I have learned to always use the internal messaging system for communication - that way everything is in writing and a lot easier to solve problems like yours. I rarely use the phone because I want a written record. On the phone it is easy to get a bimbo; plus, with internal messaging you can talk to the same person more than once. You don't have to repeat your story each time you call a new clerk.

In my opinion, USAA ain't great, but compared to other financial institutions these days, they are still the best.
 
Ziggy,
Thanks for the heads-up. I didn't know things worked like this. I agree that you might as well raise your deductible if you're already disinclined to submit a claim now.

All this also reinforces my existing inclination to self-insure as much as possible.

Does this policy open the door to mischief? Do insurance companies authenticate callers? If you are having a bad fight with your nasty neighbor and know who their insurer is, seems it would be pretty easy to pose as them and make an informal inquiry about the coverage for the leaky pipe under "your" slab and the resulting back mold in your walls. "Oh, okay, never mind." There, let's see them undo that.

Every policy holder has a secure pin number ID that you have to give to discuss your policies.
 
We had a similar issue with USAA a year ago. My wife skidded on ice and hit a snowbank and had a small dent on the front bumper of the car. She called and asked a question about it and found out that they recorded it as a claim (she was very clear she did not want to make a claim just as you had). She fought with them for over a month (she is tenacious) and they ultimately removed the claim but we had originally had been told (as you had) that it was "impossible".
 
So, I guess my call to USAA will start "I have a friend who has a policy just like mine. He said XXX wasn't covered, but I told him it is. Who is right?"

Their information gathering procedure should be explained briefly in the recording you hear while on hold. If they've got time to advertise cruises and mortgages, they've got time to tell you that any reference to a possible claim during a conversation may be treated as a claim and possibly increase your rates. Heck, it might increase the number of callers who hang up before getting a representative on the line, allowing them to reduce personnel costs.
 
Every policy holder has a secure pin number ID that you have to give to discuss your policies.
I don't have a secure PIN ID. I merely impress the USAA agent with my extensive knowledge of my personal data such as SSN, birthdate, first pet's name, and other commonly-stolen ID-theft information.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to hand the phone to my spouse, ask her to positively ID herself so that those people would discuss our question with me (in addition to with her), and have her ask me "What's my secret question again?"
 
I don't have a secure PIN ID. I merely impress the USAA agent with my extensive knowledge of my personal data such as SSN, birthdate, first pet's name, and other commonly-stolen ID-theft information.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to hand the phone to my spouse, ask her to positively ID herself so that those people would discuss our question with me (in addition to with her), and have her ask me "What's my secret question again?"

They ask for your "account number" as well as your phone "pin" (SOP). If you don't have them handy - they ask you all the pita questions to insure that they are indeed talking to "you" as verified by your answers to those questions (set up originally for positive ID). You either have your account number/pin handy when you call, or go through the pita questions - your choice. This allows them to pull up your account on their computers to discuss your concerns.

If they're a worker bee and value their job - they CYA and document every call. This protects them from being the lucky one who gets fired when a caller IDs you as the person that gave them previous advice that's not documented. Face it - they don't know who you are and follow exactly what they're instructed to do with every call. Calls are recorded, and monitored by supervisors - not a scenario where you would want to give advice "off the record".

This scenario is followed by all financial/insurance companies. It's for your protection as well as theirs (even though not all of us like it) :)
 
Yesterday afternoon. The manager repeatedly admitted that they screwed it up by processing an inquiry as a claim and not "educating" me that what they were starting to do constituted initiating the claims process -- and said he was trying, but they won't budge on it (he said "can't" but that's a lame excuse).

In other words, "our mistakes are our customer's problems."

He got someone who is a manager in the department dealing with policy services and she insisted that state law makes this a non-event, even in the event of a real future claim or two. (I couldn't get them to put that in writing.) Still, I feel they dropped the ball by starting a process I didn't want to start.

Am starting to look at other options, though I'd likely have to move my umbrella if I did so. And it might be chopping off my nose to spite my face.

Now is the time to ask to speak to the manager's boss. They can fix it, you are talking about basically a data input error.
 
So, I guess my call to USAA will start "I have a friend who has a policy just like mine. He said XXX wasn't covered, but I told him it is. Who is right?"
They ask for your "account number" as well as your phone "pin" (SOP). [...] It's for your protection as well as theirs (even though not all of us like it) :)
Much as I appreciate your tutorial on insurance-company customer-service practices and their benevolent concern for my own welfare, I think I'm gonna stick with SamClem's approach...
 
Much as I appreciate your tutorial on insurance-company customer-service practices and their benevolent concern for my own welfare, I think I'm gonna stick with SamClem's approach...

Well, there's the easy way, and then there's the hard way - to each his own ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom