This is what $15K in batteries looks like (for my solar panels)...

rmcelwee

Full time employment: Posting here.
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Why am I posting this? I don't know. I think it is just kind of cool to have almost 2000 pounds of LiFePo4 batteries sitting in my workshop. I have room for three more batteries in the racks. I will probably fill them because my OCD is getting to me.


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This is the coolest thing I have seen in a long time! Storage is the future!
 
This is the coolest thing I have seen in a long time! Storage is the future!
The coolest thing is not being aware that the neighborhood doesn't have power. We have a lot of problems with the power company out in the boondocks where we live. That is all a thing of the past now.

We had long planned on getting a Generac but realized that it costs a lot of money up front and it only pays you back when the power is out. Solar costs two or three times as much but it pays you back every minute of every day. I like that...
 
How did you hook it up to your house? Does it have a cut off if the grid power goes out? Important thing...

I agree with you on the cost of the generator... but it has saved me many times... and I cannot use solar... have very little sun hitting the house or yard... If I had it to do over I would get batteries that allowed me to charge them up with a portable generator...
 
How did you hook it up to your house? Does it have a cut off if the grid power goes out? Important thing...

I agree with you on the cost of the generator... but it has saved me many times... and I cannot use solar... have very little sun hitting the house or yard... If I had it to do over I would get batteries that allowed me to charge them up with a portable generator...

I use a couple of boxes that hook to the batteries, the solar panels, the grid, and the breaker box to the house. I tell it to use the sun/batteries until the batteries get low on voltage. Then it automatically switches back to grid until the sun comes back up. I have been running on solar for about a year but have upgraded several times so it is hard to know what my current limitations really are. The hardest part about staying off the grid is during the cold months (Dec-Feb). I spend a lot of time in my two metal building workshops (very little insulation) and really hit the batteries pretty hard during this time. That will come to an end possibly this year but most definitely by next year since we are building a new house where the walls on my workshop are 12" thick (foam and concrete).

EDIT: The new boxes I am using are called Gridboss / Flexboss21 and run about $6K.
 
I use a couple of boxes that hook to the batteries, the solar panels, the grid, and the breaker box to the house. I tell it to use the sun/batteries until the batteries get low on voltage. Then it automatically switches back to grid until the sun comes back up. I have been running on solar for about a year but have upgraded several times so it is hard to know what my current limitations really are. The hardest part about staying off the grid is during the cold months (Dec-Feb). I spend a lot of time in my two metal building workshops (very little insulation) and really hit the batteries pretty hard during this time. That will come to an end possibly this year but most definitely by next year since we are building a new house where the walls on my workshop are 12" thick (foam and concrete).

EDIT: The new boxes I am using are called Gridboss / Flexboss21 and run about $6K.
Okay, I think I understand. You manually use the batteries (which were charged by solar) until they are about drained. Then switch to grid (manually) to allow the batteries to recharge from solar. Of course, when the sun is shining you are using solar directly. Is that about right?

So your main goal is to use mostly solar but have grid back-up (but with battery back-up for the grid). Am I close? (Oh, and thanks for sharing. I'm fascinated by this sort of thing. I wish I could do it myself but not possible in either of my locations).
 
Okay, I think I understand.
Everything is completely automatic as far as the switching goes. Yes, the grid is for backup and we rarely use it nine months out of the year. During the three coldest months, at least before the latest upgrades, we normally popped back onto the grid every other day from 3AM to 8AM. There just wasn't enough battery power to carry us all night with the heaters running full blast trying to maintain temps in my horribly insulated workshops. I would like to think our upgrades will allow us to only use the grid 3 or 4 times per month this winter. When we move into our super efficient house I don't think we will ever use the grid unless the panels are covered with snow. That might be two days per year. The top graph shows the sun (yellow) and our electric consumption (blue) for the week. Grid usage (red) is zero. The bottom graph shows the batteries in green (0-100%) for the week. You can tell it was pretty cloudy for the past five days so it didn't get to 100%. I also doubled the number of batteries and they started at only 30% charged. It will take a few sunny days to get them up to 100%. The new automatic boxes and another 18 solar panels (upgrading from 42 to 60) should be online in a week or two and really help out.

Click on the graph and notice that the sun seems to drop to nothing about half way through the second day. The batteries hit 100% so there was nothing for the sun to do other than run my stuff (no need to charge batteries that were fully charged). You only use what you need when it comes to the sun. When there is nothing for them to do they just sit there.
 

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Can you post a pic of solar panels, and tell the cost of those and the grid boxes? I am really interested in storage. Our Coop power company charges a (3 hr) Peak Demand Fee that can really run up our cost and have thought of a storage system to avoid having to "shut down" doing that Peak period.

I'm also thinking I could just charge the storage from the grid to "run" during the Peak Charge period. Not as beneficial as off grid, but less up front cost for Solar Panels?

Thanks!

Flieger
 
Can you post a pic of solar panels, and tell the cost of those and the grid boxes? I am really interested in storage. Our Coop power company charges a (3 hr) Peak Demand Fee that can really run up our cost and have thought of a storage system to avoid having to "shut down" doing that Peak period.

I'm also thinking I could just charge the storage from the grid to "run" during the Peak Charge period. Not as beneficial as off grid, but less up front cost for Solar Panels?

Thanks!

Flieger

There are 30 solar panels on each 60'x30' workshop (two rows of 15). You can see them a little better by the mistake (two panels that are different colors). I paid $5400 for the panels, $4800 for brackets/wires/etc for mounting them, $4500 for labor for mounting (I'm scared to get on the roof, this is the only thing I didn't do myself), $2200 for the first set of boxes (I'm trashing those and going with an upgrade), $6000 for the next set of upgraded boxes. Total, I have around $45K in the system. Some of that is waste for not knowing what I was doing but I did get a pretty good deal on a lot of stuff. I would bet that when you crunch the numbers, you will be long dead and gone before you even come close to scratching the surface of paying for your system with the peak period fee.

I have a theory about the five types of people who have solar:
1) Greenies who think they are saving the planet from something.
2) Rich people who want to impress their friends by being green.
3) Stupid people who fall for "Sign here and I can save you a bunch of money by installing solar for you".
4) People who would pay $100K to get grid to their remote house or have a crazy cost per KWH.
5) Hobbyists, like me, who just want to have a project to work on and love looking at graphs and numbers.

I would be willing to bet that less than 5% of people who have solar will ever have it pay for itself.
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There are 30 solar panels on each 60'x30' workshop (two rows of 15). You can see them a little better by the mistake (two panels that are different colors). I paid $5400 for the panels, $4800 for brackets/wires/etc for mounting them, $4500 for labor for mounting (I'm scared to get on the roof, this is the only thing I didn't do myself), $2200 for the first set of boxes (I'm trashing those and going with an upgrade), $6000 for the next set of upgraded boxes. Total, I have around $45K in the system. Some of that is waste for not knowing what I was doing but I did get a pretty good deal on a lot of stuff. I would bet that when you crunch the numbers, you will be long dead and gone before you even come close to scratching the surface of paying for your system with the peak period fee.

I have a theory about the five types of people who have solar:
1) Greenies who think they are saving the planet from something.
2) Rich people who want to impress their friends by being green.
3) Stupid people who fall for "Sign here and I can save you a bunch of money by installing solar for you".
4) People who would pay $100K to get grid to their remote house or have a crazy cost per KWH.
5) Hobbyists, like me, who just want to have a project to work on and love looking at graphs and numbers.

I would be willing to bet that less than 5% of people who have solar will ever have it pay for itself.View attachment 56790
I think you are probably right. I would have to do the math to know how many "storage" boxes to get, and then understand the "control" boxes.

It looks like I average about 60-70 KWh per day. Assuming hourly is evenly split, and 3 hours of Peak Demand time to cover, that would be ~9KWh of coverage (let's make it 10KWh). How much will each of your LiFePo4 batteries provide?

Thanks,

Flieger
 
I think you are probably right. I would have to do the math to know how many "storage" boxes to get, and then understand the "control" boxes.

It looks like I average about 60-70 KWh per day. Assuming hourly is evenly split, and 3 hours of Peak Demand time to cover, that would be ~9KWh of coverage (let's make it 10KWh). How much will each of your LiFePo4 batteries provide?

Thanks,

Flieger
Modern solar batteries are normally 5.1 KWH. Most boxes require two batteries to operate. You can get batteries for $750 on sale. A box to run them would be $3500 for most people. They can only supply so much power so you have to size the box for your usage. My new box can do 24KW when the sun is out and 21KW at night. The boxes I currently run on (two of them hooked together) error out when I hit 12.5KW. So, for the past month my wife will throw the breaker on the water heater when cooking or running the dryer. This will not be a problem when I swap to the new 21KW box.
 
Hey, we have the exact same bota? Mine is a 2017 U35-4.
 
Modern solar batteries are normally 5.1 KWH. Most boxes require two batteries to operate. You can get batteries for $750 on sale. A box to run them would be $3500 for most people. They can only supply so much power so you have to size the box for your usage. My new box can do 24KW when the sun is out and 21KW at night. The boxes I currently run on (two of them hooked together) error out when I hit 12.5KW. So, for the past month my wife will throw the breaker on the water heater when cooking or running the dryer. This will not be a problem when I swap to the new 21KW box.
Sorry to keep questioning, but can these batteries charge from the grid? Can you tell me the control box brand/PN you are using and going to? Will you be selling the one(s) that can go (seemingly) up to ~12KW?

Sounds like for 10KWh's I would need 2 batteries and a controller.

Flieger
 
Hey, we have the exact same bota? Mine is a 2017 U35-4.
It is a U25. I saved some money buying the older version small one. Bought new for $40K which I thought was a great deal. I think most of the new vers were $50K at the time. I run it and my wife runs the JD1025r. They are a great combo and we can get most jobs done with them.


 
Sorry to keep questioning, but can these batteries charge from the grid? Can you tell me the control box brand/PN you are using and going to? Will you be selling the one(s) that can go (seemingly) up to ~12KW?

Sounds like for 10KWh's I would need 2 batteries and a controller.

Flieger

Yes, they charge from the grid or solar. I bought two SunGoldPower SP6548's (6500W output each, 48Volt charging). I'll be activating my Gridboss and Flexboss21 boxes soon. I'll probably sell the old stuff when we move into the house. I might keep it until then to get another six panels on my system (long story). The GB/FB is what I am working on today. The blue box to the left is one of the SP6548's. Each does one leg so you hook them together for 220V power.

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It is a U25. I saved some money buying the older version small one. Bought new for $40K which I thought was a great deal. I think most of the new vers were $50K at the time. I run it and my wife runs the JD1025r. They are a great combo and we can get most jobs done with them.
Nice! I bought the U35-4 new also and they have gone up some since 2017 for sure. One advantage you have with the U25 is it is probably light enough to fit on a tandem 10k trailer with some allowance for accessories. Our U35 is about 8200 pounds without the 24 inch or 12 inch buckets. I think a 10k trailer can only haul about 7800 pounds. I would need like a 14k trailer and a bigger truck, so I have to pay the local rental company $100 or so each time I want to move our U35 from our house to our mountain property, and I can't easily help out friends who live more than a few blocks away (I think in rabbit mode I can go 2.7mph)
 
Very nice setup rmcelwee. For anyone interested in this, I find Will Prowses's YouTube channel has good information.

DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse
It is a good forum, I post over there too some.


One guy made a mistake with his big bank and burned down his house, evidently he used a cheaper melt fuse instead of a T-class fuse that could withstand the arc over.
 
I have a theory about the five types of people who have solar:
1) Greenies who think they are saving the planet from something.
2) Rich people who want to impress their friends by being green.
3) Stupid people who fall for "Sign here and I can save you a bunch of money by installing solar for you".
4) People who would pay $100K to get grid to their remote house or have a crazy cost per KWH.
5) Hobbyists, like me, who just want to have a project to work on and love looking at graphs and numbers.

That's the same conclusion I came to when I investigated solar for our home. I wouldn't live long enough to begin to cover the cost.
 
I would be willing to bet that less than 5% of people who have solar will ever have it pay for itself.
That's possible. Would be a lot easier if you just stick to the panels and drop the whole battery bank part, just because of the initial expense. But then you'd use more grid. I guess solar's just harder in general in the north.

Of course never having to worry about having electricity is worth something as well...
 
Life is pretty short and what else are you going to spend money on? I am a big fan of doing fun hobbyist stuff even if it really doesn't check the pure financial return box.

I just ordered two more of the 200 watt CIGS solar panels you can roll up. Those bad boys are $400 a pop, but I have all three now rolled up into a cylinder that is 28 inches long and 11 inches diameter and weighs 18 pounds. That is 600 watts of solar that fits easily in a duffle bag and stows in the aft locker of our small sailboat. Financially though, they will never "pay" for themselves, even if they last 5 or more years.
 
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