Thousands flee LA wildfires

[stepford]

I'm guessing they mean the Northridge Quake of '94. I rode that one out 15 miles from the epicenter with little damage to my home, but a bookcase fell over and landed about a foot away from my head. That woke me up quick.

 

[Montecfo]

Far-reaching effects of climate change were predicted 20 and 30 years ago. They are here.

Yet wildfires in California and elsewhere are not new.

I would be curious what steps have been taken to mitigate the risk and that why they failed.

 

[G POP]

Yet wildfires in California and elsewhere are not new.

I would be curious what steps have been taken to mitigate the risk and that why they failed.

Anything and everything I could or would say goes against community standards and Porky would delete it. Having lived in So Cal off and on for 30 plus years I can say my family, friends and I were nowhere near satisfied with those in charge regarding mitigation of any of the topics mentioned in this thread. Hopefully this will be a wake up call. The solutions are definitely not rocket surgery.

 

[Chuckanut]

It sounds like the LA county homeless problem is going to increase by tens of thousands. Where will these people live now that their houses are burnt debris? If their worksite is also destroyed, where will they work and earn a living?

OTOH, those who know how to build things may end up dong great.

 

[aja8888]

It sounds like the LA county homeless problem is going to increase by tens of thousands. Where will these people live now that their houses are burnt debris? If their worksite is also destroyed, where will they work and earn a living?

OTOH, those who know how to build things may end up dong great.

I would hope family and friends would bring them in until their places get rebuilt.

 

[Ronstar]

As a Southern California resident I hope they require the replacement construction to meet higher fire hardened standards.

I would hope that they would provide measures to lessen the possibility of fires even getting to the houses. Minimize the fire fuel source, increase public fire protection capabilities, etc.

 

[Chuckanut]

I would hope that they would provide measures to lessen the possibility of fires even getting to the houses. Minimize the fire fuel source, increase public fire protection capabilities, etc.

But, people live in those areas because they like to live in or near all those things that burn easily and quickly - trees, brush, hillsides, canyons, etc. They want to live close to or in “nature”. As though Nature gives a hoot about any of us having a happy contented fulfilled life.

The only solution I see is a market solution.

 

[ivinsfan]

After 50+ years of farming one thing I know for certain is that Mother Nature cares nothing about you and what you need. Mother Nature is going to do what she wants and we'd best pay attention to her.

 

[ElizabethT]

But, people live in those areas because they like to live in or near all those things that burn easily and quickly - trees, brush, hillsides, canyons, etc. They want to live close to or in “nature”. As though Nature gives a hoot about any of us having a happy contented fulfilled life.

The only solution I see is a market solution.

Same is true of the entire eastern coastline, and the entire coastline of Gulf of Mexico, all of which combine to lead the list of costliest natural disasters - hurricanes. So the mindset you are describing is certainly not unique to Californians.

But I agree with your market based assessment - perhaps it’s time to remove or reduce disaster relief from the equation, and move toward more resident responsibility for the entire US.

California is fourth in terms of disaster costs per data from NOAA at climate.gov. First on the list is Texas, then Florida, then Louisiana, then California. So a lot of shared impact to be felt all around if residents begin to more fully bear the costs of where they chose to live.

 

[Aerides]

But, people live in those areas because they like to live in or near all those things that burn easily and quickly - trees, brush, hillsides, canyons, etc. They want to live close to or in “nature”. As though Nature gives a hoot about any of us having a happy contented fulfilled life.

The only solution I see is a market solution.

And a great many people live where the live because that's where they were born and raised, got jobs, started families - there was no "oh I want to live here/there", they just stayed where they started - which is true of a majority of people in every location.

I read about the town Altadena which was very badly hit by the fires. No celebrities or multi-million dollar homes, diverse resident populations, many in their multi-generational family homes. You grew up and inherited grandma's 1200sf cottage and now it's gone.

 

[Ronstar]

But, people live in those areas because they like to live in or near all those things that burn easily and quickly - trees, brush, hillsides, canyons, etc. They want to live close to or in “nature”. As though Nature gives a hoot about any of us having a happy contented fulfilled life.

The only solution I see is a market solution.

But I agree with your market based assessment - perhaps it’s time to remove disaster relief from the equation, and move toward resident responsibility for the entire US.

I agree 100%. Let the market dictate. Let the insurance companies charge according to their risk. It's not the responsibility of government to control private insurance premiums.

And over regulation by FEMA and other agencies is not helping. back in my working days, I saw many regulations that made no sense, and many times made it impossible for folks to rebuild after a natural disaster.

Folks who have lost their homes in this disaster will probably find that rebuilding will be as much of a traumatic experience as the disaster itself. Unless rebuilding regulations are waived.

 

[spencnor]

Same is true of the entire eastern coastline, and the entire coastline of Gulf of Mexico, all of which combine to lead the list of costliest natural disasters - hurricanes. So the mindset you are describing is certainly not unique to Californians.

But I agree with your market based assessment - perhaps it’s time to remove or reduce disaster relief from the equation, and move toward more resident responsibility for the entire US.

California is fourth in terms of disaster costs per data from NOAA at climate.gov. First on the list is Texas, then Florida, then Louisiana, then California. So a lot of shared impact to be felt all around if residents begin to bear the full costs of where they chose to live.

Looks like California will join this list -Largest natural disaster in the U.S. since 2023 by Insurance cost

I’m not meaning to be crass, but updated building codes, new regulations, and new infrastructure in areas totally devastated is easier to implement.

 

[ElizabethT]

Looks like California will join this list -Largest natural disaster in the U.S. since 2023 by Insurance cost

I’m not meaning to be crass, but updated building codes, new regulations, and new infrastructure in areas totally devastated is easier to implement.

The NOAA list is cumulative, not incidental.

 

[homestead]

This page shows the history of wildfires in CA. with earliest going back to 1889.

The earliest known wildfire in California history was the Santiago Canyon Fire of 1889. It burned around 300,000 acres in parts of Orange County, San Diego County, and Riverside County.1 Before 2018, this was the largest wildfire in the state’s history in terms of acreage burned.

History of California Wildfires | WFCA

 

[2HOTinPHX]

This page shows the history of wildfires in CA. with earliest going back to 1889.

The earliest known wildfire in California history was the Santiago Canyon Fire of 1889. It burned around 300,000 acres in parts of Orange County, San Diego County, and Riverside County.1 Before 2018, this was the largest wildfire in the state’s history in terms of acreage burned.

History of California Wildfires | WFCA

Good article about California wildfires. Below point was in the last part of the article.

Where We Are Now:
The Future of Fires in California.
As you can see, some of California’s largest, deadliest, and most destructive wildfires have occurred within the last five years. This is due to climate change, which is a result of humans burning fossil fuels which create greenhouse gases that warm up our planet. Global warming causes both land and air to become drier than normal, thus making the perfect conditions for wildfires to ignite.
Experts predict that, as climate change continues unabated, and global temperatures continue to rise, wildfire season in California will continue to burn longer and more intensely year by year.

 

[Chuckanut]

I don’t live in an area where flooding is much of a risk (but, as I have learned, it’s not zero) so I don’t keep up on the Federal flood insurance. But, didn’t the Feds tighten up some of the rules so that people can’t get cheap flood insurance, get flooded, rebuild, buy more cheap flood insurance, get flooded, rebuild, in perpetuity?

 

[Chuckanut]

And a great many people live where the live because that's where they were born and raised, got jobs, started families - there was no "oh I want to live here/there", they just stayed where they started - which is true of a majority of people in every location.

I read about the town Altadena which was very badly hit by the fires. No celebrities or multi-million dollar homes, diverse resident populations, many in their multi-generational family homes. You grew up and inherited grandma's 1200sf cottage and now it's gone.

Altadena is not the home of movie stars, sports heroes and tech millionaires, that’s for certain. Well maybe right up against the hills there are more expensive homes. Most of the people live in older smaller homes on flat land that is a mile or so away from the brushy hills and canyons that usually burn. They felt safe. This fire, with its intense winds blew a lot of burning debris into those flat areas. I would bet a lot of those older homes still have wood shingles on their roofs, and wood siding in places. Plus lots of big older trees that burn more easily. At least they did the last time I was there earlier this century.

 

[JoeWras]

I disagree with what some is said above. Doesn't matter about my opinion, though. There are ways to mitigate the risk and those means must be employed. They have not been. Blaming it on The One Thing is fine, but there are ways to mitigate the problem, regardless of the source.

 

[Diogenes]

If the fire can melt a car, I doubt that any home could withstand the heat.

I wonder about this too. We hear much armchair philosophy about more stringent building codes, more fire-resistant siding or roofing or caulking, or other technological solutions. The implication is, that poor regulation or corner-cutting in legacy construction rendered all sorts of buildings especially vulnerable. This may be true at the margin, meaning moderate-intensity fires turning catastrophic because of genuinely shoddy construction. But if a wall of flame is barreling at high speed, does it really matter, if the three little pigs used straw, wood or brick?

One data point, would be to see what happened to glass-and-steel office buildings, in mixed-zone neighborhoods. Did they survive, while residential structures burned to ash?

 

[skipro33]

I look at these fires like this;
A blacksmith builds his fire with coal as his fuel. Not hot enough to release it's energy fast enough, so he adds oxygen in the form of air via a bellows and BAM! it's now hot enough to melt steel. Same with these fires. It's not the fire, it's the air supply. Large fires can and do generate their own weather to the point it's hurricane force winds generated. Other times it's the terrain that dictates wind. In these LA fires, the winds were worse at night because as the air cools, it gets more dense and drops down the slopes. If the prevailing winds are in alignment, then the effect is additional. I live in the foothills of the sierras where the prevailing winds come from the west. Every night and every morning, the wind shifts 180 degrees and for an hour or so each time, there's zero wind.
I have acreage and stack my yard waste to burn in after the rains. To facilitate the burn, I'll take my battery powered leaf blower. With that, I can burn anything regardless of how wet it is. Soaking, dripping cardboard lasts seconds before it's all consumed.
So wind is the prevailing factor to fire out of control, not fuel loads, not terrain, not weather, but wind. With wind, a small ember can take down a stucco home simply because it can generate enough heat to do so.

 

[Ronstar]

I don’t live in an area where flooding is much of a risk (but, as I have learned, it’s not zero) so I don’t keep up on the Federal flood insurance. But, didn’t the Feds tighten up some of the rules so that people can’t get cheap flood insurance, get flooded, rebuild, buy more cheap flood insurance, get flooded, rebuild, in perpetuity?

The Feds (FEMA) have made it more difficult to build in flood prone areas. In northern Illinois, the flood plain boundaries used to based on a rough graphical mapped representation of highest floods of record. Now flood plain limits are based on hydrologic studies. And in most cases, areas contain more flood plain now than 40 years ago, according to FEMA. And the regulations to build and rebuild in flood areas have become more restrictive. And local review agency requirements are in accordance with FEMA regulations. I don’t know anything about The Feds control on insurance.

 

[swakyaby]

The local broadcasts showing the firefighting efforts around Los Angeles and the Palisades right now are amazing to watch. Each helicopter drops 1000 gallons of water. Two DC10s each drop 9,000 gallons. While the DC10s are in the area, the helicopters circle around the water reservoir to stay out of the way. Planes are dropping massive amounts of fire retardant in advance of the flames approaching the residential homes. It looks so surreal, never seen anything like this.

 

[rodi]

I fully expect our insurance to double or triple at renewal this summer.

But - it's in the works to get discounts if they inspect and rate your home fire hardened. (Son works for Farmers and has been tracking this for us.) Since we have spent a good chunk of money fire hardening... plus my husband volunteers for the local community fire safe council, we're hopeful that we'll get certified. Only thing standing in our way is our neighbors overgrown trees are less than 6 feet from our house. We trim our side of the fence. We only have one window on that side of the house on the 2nd story, but the overgrown bush/trees are tall. We've offered to pay to remove them, but our neighbor likes them.

Most suburban tract home neighborhoods, built in the 50's,60's,70's will present similar situations. If the neighbors don't fire harden as well, you can still be vulnerable. If a fire melts car wheels, it will take out a hardened home by radiant heat through the windows.

 

[rodi]

On the topic of why can't we clear the fuel. I'm in a community that has designated open space canyons to the north and south. The canyon to the north has a "Friends of" group that fights the city on removing underbrush. The canyon isn't pristine, there is a road, a sewer line, and rail tracks... but if you want to thin the brush you will get threats of lawsuits. The local fire safe council has been pushing the city to clear brush on the city land when it is within 100 feet of structures - this pressure on the city is working to a point... the city now clears brush every 2 years... but doesn't do all of the areas identified by the biologist hired by the fire safe council.... no budget, nesting bird time restrictions, etc.

This is one local canyon with an organized group to fight clearing brush. There are at least a dozen more in San Diego - these little urban green spaces - which are nice - but need to be managed. The houses on the local canyon rim are not new - most were built in the early 60's. Fortunately, we're on the south canyon and there is a freeway - Caltrans clears the area between the homes and freeway.

 

[MC Rider]

On the topic of why can't we clear the fuel.

There are thousands of square miles of it. Have fun with your weed whacker and rake.