Toilet flapper valve

[GrayHare]

One toilet's flapper valve has me beat. It stays open too long, which both wastes water and means the bowl will overflow should there be a clog.

Trial #1: I tried cutting the edge of the float portion of flapper so that more air would be let out, but that did not help. I cut it more and then the flapper would not stay open enough for one flush.

Trial #2: got a new flapper, and it stayed open too long as well, causing almost all the tank water to empty. I cut the float a very little amount to let more air out, but no change. I repeatedly cut just a tiny bit more each time. Still no success, until eventually it too would not stay open for one flush.

Trial #3: next I installed an adjustable flapper. It also stayed open too long, so I set it to the minimum water setting, and that made no difference! No matter the adjustable setting, almost all the water empties upon flushing.

So, my next thought is the problem lies elsewhere. What about a clogged ventilation pipe? Another identical-model toilet does not have this problem.

 

[finnski1]

You should not be cutting any float portion. You probably need to bend the arm on the float till it stops in the correct position to close the flapper when you want or the chain on the flapper needs adjusting so that when the float reaches the proper position the chain is just shy of lifting the flap.

 

[Qs Laptop]

I second what finnski1 said. Experiment with lengthening and/or shortening the chain on the flapper.

 

[Romer]

I had an issue were the two posts it rides on got rough with mineral deposits. I used an emery cloth to smooth them out. Figure out why it is staying open, that is what I did and figured out it was hanging on the poles

Another option is to buy the internals kit for $14 and they come as a set with no rough surfaces. Takes about 10 minutes to replace.

 

[GrayHare]

Hmm, the initial test results of shortening the chain are positiive, thanks. Now I have to think why that should work. The flapper seems to be lifting up the same amount whether the chain to it is long or short, but maybe that's not the case.

 

[JoeWras]

It is a delicate dance. You want it to open and release the suction. The trapped air inside will hinge it up at the same time the chain relaxes. This is balanced. The cavity under the flapper shouldn't gulp air.

If the chain yanks it up and the cavity under the flapper gulps air, then it floats too long.

So, chain length matters. A lot.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Hmm, the initial test results of shortening the chain are positiive, thanks. Now I have to think why that should work. The flapper seems to be lifting up the same amount whether the chain to it is long or short, but maybe that's not the case.

When you shorten the chain the flapper cannot fully open, or at least not open as fully as it did before. Thus, when you flush the toilet, the flapper closes sooner. Or something...

 

[jazz4cash]

Hmm, the initial test results of shortening the chain are positiive, thanks. Now I have to think why that should work. The flapper seems to be lifting up the same amount whether the chain to it is long or short, but maybe that's not the case.

It works because you are taking the float function of the flapper out of the equation. The flapper and chain stay under tension so the flapper closes due to gravity and hydrostatic pressure. Downside is it may close too quickly when handle is released. Somtimes you can tweek the handle/lever also to get it just right.

 

[calmloki]

Had a flapper/chain set I liked - it incorporated a small Styrofoam float whose position on the chain could be adjusted closer or further from the flapper. Flapper didn't want to float, so it dropped as the chain float came down. Easy to just adjust the distance up the chain from the flapper the float was, which meant the tank water level at time of flapper closing was adjustable and consistent.

 

[socca]

FWIW (not much) six years ago I replaced all three toilets in my house with the Kohler Aqua Piston flapperless design. I decided that after designing toilets for over 100 years it's ridiculous that we humans haven't designed a toilet that doesn't leak. So far the Kohler toilets haven't given me any trouble.

P.S. These 'water-saving' toilets don't clean the bowl as well as the old-fashioned 'water-wasting' design.

 

[Jerry1]

FWIW (not much) six years ago I replaced all three toilets in my house with the Kohler Aqua Piston flapperless design. I decided that after designing toilets for over 100 years it's ridiculous that we humans haven't designed a toilet that doesn't leak. So far the Kohler toilets haven't given me any trouble.

P.S. These 'water-saving' toilets don't clean the bowl as well as the old-fashioned 'water-wasting' design.

I had two of the American Standard VorMax with the two flapper system. Complete garbage. After 7ish years, I got rid of them and got two new Toto Drakes. What a difference and what a pleasure. No muss no fuss. Push the handle and the bowl is clear. It has more of a piston design. Glad to be done with the flappers.

 

[JoeWras]

This is the FOUR flapper design.

 

[Winemaker]

^^^^ And with the 4 flapper design, chain length is definitely of great importance!

 

[Koolau]

FWIW (not much) six years ago I replaced all three toilets in my house with the Kohler Aqua Piston flapperless design. I decided that after designing toilets for over 100 years it's ridiculous that we humans haven't designed a toilet that doesn't leak. So far the Kohler toilets haven't given me any trouble.

P.S. These 'water-saving' toilets don't clean the bowl as well as the old-fashioned 'water-wasting' design.

Heh, heh, we have chemicals for that!

 

[djdawson]

Most flush valve mechanisms these days have an adjustment for how full they'll fill the tank, usually by turning a little plastic screw connected to the float. That should allow you to set the max water level so the tank won't hold more water than the bowl can handle in one flush.

 

[GrayHare]

Hate to report this, but the shorter chain stopped solving the problem. This is an adjustable flapper. The adjustment works by rotating the flapper so that its small air escape hole is higher, which lets air out from under the flapper more quickly. Even at the max-air-escape setting, the flapper was staying open too long. I have now enlarged that hole, and that's permitting the flapper to close sooner, as desired. We'll see if this solution continues to work.

 

[flyingaway]

Getting a new flapper from Walmart and replacing the old one in a few minutes. It used to cost $0.99, now at about $3.

 

[Ken_Bogart]

Definitely a first world problem!

A simple solution is to add a few bricks or something else to displace some of the water in the tank. Still maintains high enough head pressure, but uses less water. You can also cut the top off a plastic jug and weight it so it is filled with water that does not drain out...

 

[ERD50]

Hate to report this, but the shorter chain stopped solving the problem. This is an adjustable flapper. The adjustment works by rotating the flapper so that its small air escape hole is higher, which lets air out from under the flapper more quickly. Even at the max-air-escape setting, the flapper was staying open too long. I have now enlarged that hole, and that's permitting the flapper to close sooner, as desired. We'll see if this solution continues to work.

Can you provide a link to the type of flapper you have, I'm not following your description?

When I've had problems, I've gone to the vertical style, they seem less prone to hanging up on anything. Like this:

Fluidmaster 400A Universal Toilet Fill Valve 400ARP25 - The Home Depot

Save water and prevent a running toilet with this Universal Fill Valve offered by Fluidmaster. Corrosion resistant material.

www.homedepot.com

 

[Jerry1]

Can you provide a link to the type of flapper you have, I'm not following your description?

When I've had problems, I've gone to the vertical style, they seem less prone to hanging up on anything. Like this:

Fluidmaster 400A Universal Toilet Fill Valve 400ARP25 - The Home Depot

Save water and prevent a running toilet with this Universal Fill Valve offered by Fluidmaster. Corrosion resistant material.

www.homedepot.com

View attachment 52435

A flapper valve is in the bottom of the tank and it releases the water into the bowl. You’ve shone a picture of a fill valve which is completely different. The flapper is a thin rubber stopper that gets lifted when you operate the handle to flush.

 

[ERD50]

A flapper valve is in the bottom of the tank and it releases the water into the bowl. You’ve shone a picture of a fill valve which is completely different. The flapper is a thin rubber stopper that gets lifted when you operate the handle to flush.

Doh! You are right. But I think I also had a vertical 'flapper' valve, now I need to look...


Like these:

Everbilt Flush Valve for Mansfield Toilet JX-55029 - The Home Depot

Repair your leaky toilet with the Water-Saver Flush valve for Mansfield Toilets. It features a plastic construction that will provide durability and reliable performance for your everyday use. It can be used with either direct-connect or chain-trip levers.

www.homedepot.com

KOHLER 3 in. Toilet Flush Valve Kit RGP1083980 - The Home Depot

Protect the warranty on KOHLER products, always look for the KOHLER Genuine Parts logo. This flush valve was designed by KOHLER engineers to maintain original product performance and promote product longevity.

www.homedepot.com

 

[GrayHare]

It's the Fluidmaster 502 flapper

502 - PerforMAX® Adjustable 2" Flapper

Fluidmaster 502 flapper is the best 2 inch toilet flapper to fix running toilets, weak toilet flush and double flushing.

www.fluidmaster.com

 

[Jerry1]

Doh! You are right. But I think I also had a vertical 'flapper' valve, now I need to look...


Like these:

Everbilt Flush Valve for Mansfield Toilet JX-55029 - The Home Depot

Repair your leaky toilet with the Water-Saver Flush valve for Mansfield Toilets. It features a plastic construction that will provide durability and reliable performance for your everyday use. It can be used with either direct-connect or chain-trip levers.

www.homedepot.com

KOHLER 3 in. Toilet Flush Valve Kit RGP1083980 - The Home Depot

Protect the warranty on KOHLER products, always look for the KOHLER Genuine Parts logo. This flush valve was designed by KOHLER engineers to maintain original product performance and promote product longevity.

www.homedepot.com

View attachment 52436

Yeah, my new Toto toilets have a plunger type flush valve instead of the flapper.

 

[ncbill]

try a Korky flapper instead?

 

[jazz4cash]

Can you provide a link to the type of flapper you have, I'm not following your description?

When I've had problems, I've gone to the vertical style, they seem less prone to hanging up on anything. Like this:

Fluidmaster 400A Universal Toilet Fill Valve 400ARP25 - The Home Depot

Save water and prevent a running toilet with this Universal Fill Valve offered by Fluidmaster. Corrosion resistant material.

www.homedepot.com

View attachment 52435

That doesn’t change the flapper function.