U.S. Unveils Price Limits for 10 Costly or Common Medications

[Fermion]

Which illegal games did you link that drug manufacturers are playing to keep their monopolies on branded drugs? I understand that there are legal "games" like doing additional studies on population subsets and different forms of dosing and administration which can extend the length of a non generic drug, but these are legal and not really any different from a auto manufacturer playing games to get EV subsidies when their vehicles do not really qualify as the law intended. Legal, but maybe not as ethical as one would like.

 

[Gumby]

Which illegal games did you link that drug manufacturers are playing to keep their monopolies on branded drugs? I understand that there are legal "games" like doing additional studies on population subsets and different forms of dosing and administration which can extend the length of a non generic drug, but these are legal and not really any different from a auto manufacturer playing games to get EV subsidies when their vehicles do not really qualify as the law intended. Legal, but maybe not as ethical as one would like.

"Product hopping" is a big one -- https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/ftc_gov/pdf/p223900reportpharmaceuticalproducthoppingoct2022.pdf

As is the "pay for delay" mentioned earlier.

 

[Fermion]

Is the product hopping technique actually illegal? Isn't it similar to what Apple might do to encourage people to abandon their perfectly good Iphone25 and upgrade to a Iphone26?

 

[momoney]

Is the product hopping technique actually illegal? Isn't it similar to what Apple might do to encourage people to abandon their perfectly good Iphone25 and upgrade to a Iphone26?

You don't need the iPhone to survive and you have other phone options including used models.

 

[MichaelB]

Is the product hopping technique actually illegal? Isn't it similar to what Apple might do to encourage people to abandon their perfectly good Iphone25 and upgrade to a Iphone26?

The pharma company is making a change to their drug in order to extend the patent beyond the allocated time. This happened with a med my mum was taking. Her physician was very upset and told me the change was bogus and the only thing it accomplished was to delay the introduction of a generic by 2-3 years. In the meantime, the drug enjoyed a monopoly and the price was now artificially high.

In the Apple case, the user can keep the old phone, upgrade to the new phone, or buy a phone from a different manufacturer.

 

[Gumby]

You don't need the iPhone to survive and you have other phone options including used models.

And nobody makes generic iPhones.

Is the product hopping technique actually illegal? .....

Yes, a "hard switch" product hop - e.g. introducing a new dosage and terminating the old -- violates the Sherman Antitrust Act. State of New York v. Actavis, No. 14-4624 (2d Cir. 2015)

 

[MichaelB]

I would like to see some of these price controls extended to other areas also. Why are electric vehicles so expensive? Why are houses so expensive? We could do a lot to lower prices for everyone.

This is not price control. It’s a price agreement between the insurer (Medicare) and 10 pharmaceuticals. It doesn’t affect the price other insurers and PBMs negotiate.

Private insurers and PBMs have always done this.

 

[Texas Proud]

From an older article.... the way the drug industry is fixed is why the prices go so high.... no way they cannot make money at $25 per...


Insulin is seven to 10 times more expensive in the U.S. compared with other countries around the world. The same vial of insulin that cost $21 in the U.S. in 1996 now costs upward of $250. But it takes only an estimated $2 to $4 to produce a vial of insulin

 

[brett]

I believe that a more realistic price comparison might be the prices between various countries, regions vs before and after in country pricing.

For years I worked in an industry where we were constantly battling the 'grey market'. Importers bring product purchased at a much lower wholesale price into the country to undercut authorized in country re-sellers.

Product pricing is often based on what the country market will bear and as such there can be huge discrepancies in price between countries.

Manufacturers like to point to different costs of doing business however in my experience much of that is just nonsense...mumbo jumbo. Consumer products were the first to fall.

Fortunately the world has become much smaller and many manufacturers can no longer get away with this. In the US, drugs appear to be the exception to this.

Some people have apparently been able to cut their drug costs substantially simply by sourcing identical like for like product in other countries. Whether it be a short drive, a mail order, or vacationing/travelling to very specific areas where multiple months of supply can be purchased at a significantly reduced retail price.

 

[NatureBoy]

This is just the first installment. Many more to come in future years. From the White House press release:

"More drugs will be selected each year as part of Medicare’s drug price negotiation program. Medicare will select up to 15 additional drugs covered under Part D for negotiation in 2025, up to an additional 15 Part B and D drugs in 2026, and up to 20 drugs every year after that."

FACT SHEET: Biden-Harris Administration Announces New, Lower Prices for First Ten Drugs Selected for Medicare Price Negotiation to Lower Costs for Millions of Americans | The White House

 

[RetMD21]

I know that some people are concerned that the drug companies may not make enough money. The negotiations for lower prices don't apply until 9 years after the drug is approved. Also the price reductions are relatively modest. Using Eliquis as an example, it has been approved for 13 years and US prices have been rising over the years. The US monthly list price was $594 and the new negotiated price was $249. International first world prices range from $70 to $154.

Sure if the manufacturers were forced into low costs immediately or if those costs were below the actual manufacturing costs it could have a detrimental effect on drug development. That really isn't the case. I will link to my source (which isn't free) https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2411265?

I thought this was interesting although I may be one of the few

 

[Montecfo]

Elequis is $521 now and will be $231 once this goes into effect. I think that's a great start. Don't worry about the Bristol Meyer it is available in Canada for $102. The $521 is a "special deal" for Americans

Well...
People seem to like having treatments for things. And those treatments are developed after spending millions in R&D for drug development. Many drugs fail and there is never any revenue.

I do not see many new transformative drugs coming out of Canada or Europe. If we turn drug companies into regulated utilities we are not going to get much R&D. I would rather treatments (and even cures!) to be available rather than not.

I understand affordability but the drug companies often offer programs for people dealing with affordability. And if course our insurance is subsidized.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Well...
People seem to like having treatments for things. And those treatments are developed after spending millions in R&D for drug development. Many drugs fail and there is never any revenue.

I do not see many new transformative drugs coming out of Canada or Europe. If we turn drug companies into regulated utilities we are not going to get much R&D. I would rather treatments (and even cures!) to be available rather than not.

I understand affordability but the drug companies often offer programs for people dealing with affordability. And if course our insurance is subsidized.

But it should apply worldwide just not in America! If Canada and other companies are not investing in new drugs, it is because they do not have to as Americans pay for that. They just reap the benefits with low prices. Not sure that is the true Capitalist way. More likely is that it is perceived that our economy can tolerate the higher prices. Unfortunately that is not the case as there are many folks who simply cannot afford them. A lot if drugs are made abroad too, so foreign workers are benefitting also. If anyone here thinks these prices are cheap (Not in comparison to previous numbers, but to general folks affordability) they are delusional. The maximum for any 30 day prescription should be no more than $25 to make them really affordable.

1. Eliquis, for preventing strokes and blood clots, from Bristol Myers Squibb and Pfizer, $231
2. Jardiance, for diabetes, heart failure and chronic kidney disease, from Boehringer Ingelheim and Eli Lilly, $197
3. Xarelto, for preventing strokes and blood clots, from Johnson & Johnson, $197
4. Januvia, for diabetes, from Merck, $113
5. Farxiga, for diabetes, heart failure and chronic kidney disease, from AstraZeneca $178
6. Entresto, for heart failure, from Novartis, $295
7. Enbrel, for autoimmune conditions, from Amgen, $2,355
8. Imbruvica, for blood cancers, from AbbVie and Johnson & Johnson, $9,319
9. Stelara, for autoimmune conditions, from Johnson & Johnson, $4,695
10. Fiasp and NovoLog insulin products, for diabetes, from Novo Nordisk, $119

 

[Montecfo]

But it should apply worldwide just not in America! If Canada and other companies are not investing in new drugs, it is because they do not have to as Americans pay for that. They just reap the benefits with low prices. Not sure that is the true Capitalist way. More likely is that it is perceived that our economy can tolerate the higher prices. Unfortunately that is not the case as there are many folks who simply cannot afford them. A lot if drugs are made abroad too, so foreign workers are benefitting also. If anyone here thinks these prices are cheap (Not in comparison to previous numbers, but to general folks affordability) they are delusional. The maximum for any 30 day prescription should be no more than $25 to make them really affordable.

1. Eliquis, for preventing strokes and blood clots, from Bristol Myers Squibb and Pfizer, $231
2. Jardiance, for diabetes, heart failure and chronic kidney disease, from Boehringer Ingelheim and Eli Lilly, $197
3. Xarelto, for preventing strokes and blood clots, from Johnson & Johnson, $197
4. Januvia, for diabetes, from Merck, $113
5. Farxiga, for diabetes, heart failure and chronic kidney disease, from AstraZeneca $178
6. Entresto, for heart failure, from Novartis, $295
7. Enbrel, for autoimmune conditions, from Amgen, $2,355
8. Imbruvica, for blood cancers, from AbbVie and Johnson & Johnson, $9,319
9. Stelara, for autoimmune conditions, from Johnson & Johnson, $4,695
10. Fiasp and NovoLog insulin products, for diabetes, from Novo Nordisk, $119

Well I do not disagree that some drugs can be very expensive. But there are also usually cheaper alternatives which may not work as well. But that's a choice.

Limiting druig prices to $25 per month would address affordability. But how many of these drugs would even exist? That is the question.

 

[RetMD21]

Well...
People seem to like having treatments for things. And those treatments are developed after spending millions in R&D for drug development. Many drugs fail and there is never any revenue.

I do not see many new transformative drugs coming out of Canada or Europe. If we turn drug companies into regulated utilities we are not going to get much R&D. I would rather treatments (and even cures!) to be available rather than not.

I understand affordability but the drug companies often offer programs for people dealing with affordability. And if course our insurance is subsidized.

So if 9 years of unlimited pricing isn't enough how much would be? If US consumers should pay more that twice the price of other industrialized countries after negotiation what should the multiplier be?

Drug companies are mostly multinationals but those based in Europe have a good pipeline.