Unreasonable HOA fees

[Fermion]

Yes, everyone should have the right to install a water heater to their purple hot tub in their front yard. It’s America. Land of the free. Just not next to me.

I was more talking about the need to get a permit to replace your water heater INSIDE your house. But you can be happy having that and a HOA that requires you to trim your grass to between 1.37" minimum height and 2.01" maximum height and I will do whatever I want on my non HOA 30 acres.

 

[COcheesehead]

Same here. Only line of sight are under the design review guidelines. I can do whatever I want behind fencing or closed floors.

 

[flyoverstate]

In my HOA I can do pretty much anything that's not in the line of sight from the front of the house. Inside my home, or behind my fence in my backyard? They have no view and do not care. I've done a complete interior remodel, replaced waters heaters, an electrical panel. Installed a pool, pergola, pool heater. Only had to get HOA approval for a fence, paver driveway, paint, etc. nbd.

I've submitted far more county permits than HOA requests. (and I've had enough inspectors find things wrong and require rework of electrical stuff over the years, that I will never skimp out on getting permits).

My rights that are "curbed"? - let's see.

Can't have a car in disrepair in my driveway
Can't let weeds grow with reckless abandon
Can't let my grass just sit and die and stay brown forever
Can't paint my house as an homage to Barbie
Can't make my house into an Airbnb so people can have raves whenever they want
Can't design my house exterior as a shrine to Ozzy

My rights to NOT have to live next to that are protected, and I think that's a good deal.

My HOA is often billed by realtors as being "low fee" and it's about $100 per month. We're not gated. But we do get plenty of services that enhance the property value. The entry street to our neighborhood is well maintained with new landscaping and lighting (not just street lights, but lights shining up the trees), and the trees are regularly trimmed (important in Florida).

Our small park is well maintained and attractive to families. The dock that connects to the lake is kept up and safe. We have a security patrol from the local Sherriff's office, basically just a deterrent but the parents here like that he monitors the school bus pick ups and drop offs.

I've seen neighborhoods near ours that would not protect my rights to live in a well maintained neighborhood - no thanks!

The problem with HOAs, governments, or any other entity with control over your property is that the rules can change.

You can do whatever you want behind your fence *today*, but if a rogue board gets control, they can ask for inspections behind your fence. Or change the rules about the fences themselves. Today, you can have an eight foot fence, maybe next year fences have to be a max of four feet high, and your rules about visibility say that pop up camper you store in the backyard is now visible, get rid of it. Or, one of the board members has a kid on the swim team, and convinces the board that the HOA needs to assess everyone to build a pool. Ect.

Better to not have someone controlling your future, I say. One of my kids lives in Massachusetts and swears that the entire state is run like an invasive HOA. Boulder, CO is like that on a city level.

 

[Aerides]

The problem with HOAs, governments, or any other entity with control over your property is that the rules can change.

You can do whatever you want behind your fence *today*, but if a rogue board gets control, they can ask for inspections behind your fence. Or change the rules about the fences themselves. Today, you can have an eight foot fence, maybe next year fences have to be a max of four feet high, and your rules about visibility say that pop up camper you store in the backyard is now visible, get rid of it. Or, one of the board members has a kid on the swim team, and convinces the board that the HOA needs to assess everyone to build a pool. Ect.

Better to not have someone controlling your future, I say. One of my kids lives in Massachusetts and swears that the entire state is run like an invasive HOA. Boulder, CO is like that on a city level.

That's why it's helpful to understand the terms of your HOA before deciding if you want to live there. No chance of a rogue board if you require a quorum for votes. No chance of dramatic changes unless they meet a 60% threshold of homeowners agreeing, etc.

I think your examples are those of someone who has never lived in an HOA. The horror stories out there are mostly just not true.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

That's why it's helpful to understand the terms of your HOA before deciding if you want to live there. No chance of a rogue board if you require a quorum for votes. No chance of dramatic changes unless they meet a 60% threshold of homeowners agreeing, etc.

I think your examples are those of someone who has never lived in an HOA. The horror stories out there are mostly just not true.

Our "quorum" was a simple majority. Our charter dated back to early 50s. It was so obsolete that it was illegal -forbidding houses sold to minorities. It was rewritten in early 2000. But to think these stories are untrue and that HOAs are immune to a rogue force is naïve.

 

[TripleLindy]

The horror stories out there are mostly just not true.

Bingo. I’m sure there are some, but I expect most are exaggerated or even fabricated. I try not to sweat this kind of stuff in life. I live in an HOA community. No big deal. I doubt I’d live my life any differently if I didn’t.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I was more talking about the need to get a permit to replace your water heater INSIDE your house. But you can be happy having that and a HOA that requires you to trim your grass to between 1.37" minimum height and 2.01" maximum height and I will do whatever I want on my non HOA 30 acres.

Permit for water heater is issued by the city and it has nothing to do with the HOA.

 

[Diogenes]

... I try not to sweat this kind of stuff in life. I live in an HOA community. No big deal. I doubt I’d live my life any differently if I didn’t.

This is likely because you have a natural mode of behavior and set of personal values that comports well, with what modern American HOAs generally try to achieve. I mean that as a statement of fact, and nowise a criticism.

Take in contrast my hypothetical neighbor Granny Doris. Doris has 10 cats; maybe more, but some are unaccounted-for. They sleep on her porch. Some roam the neighborhood. Doris wouldn't do well in a HOA. But I like Doris. I would relish the opportunity to visit and to play with her cats. Maybe even take home a kitten one day.

Also consider my hypothetical neighbor Rufus. Rufus has several Chevy Camaros in various states of disrepair in his front yard. That's because his back yard is already filled with spare parts and tools. Rufus knows how to tune a mechanical-secondary Holley better than anyone else in town. I regularly consult with Rufus about automotive questions. His expertise is trustworthy and cogent, even if his language is a bit salty and his drawl occasionally hard to dicpher.

My other hypothetical neighbor JimBob has an "off of the books" distillery. I'm not personally a fan of distilled spirits; they're too intense for me. But JimBob's wife, Trixie, mixes the moonshine with lemon juice from their home-grown lemons. It's a wonderful beverage, if not strictly speaking refreshing on a hot afternoon.

You see the difference? It's a matter of lifestyle, values, priorities. If you'd keep your grass neatly trimmed, regardless of whether there's a HOA, then a HOA is likely not burdensome. If the only way for your grass to get mowed is if your neighbor lets you borrow his goats, then likely a HOA wouldn't be a good fit.

 

[Fermion]

Permit for water heater is issued by the city and it has nothing to do with the HOA.

That was not what I was saying. I said the government makes you pull a permit to replace your water heater with the exact same model. I meant that I would not want BOTH the government and the HOA telling me when I can breath. One is bad enough.

 

[COcheesehead]

That was not what I was saying. I said the government makes you pull a permit to replace your water heater with the exact same model. I meant that I would not want BOTH the government and the HOA telling me when I can breath. One is bad enough.

Where I live if it’s a replacement no permit required

 

[Fermion]

Where I live if it’s a replacement no permit required

Where we live a permit is required (also we do not have any purple hot tubs in front yards that I have seen during my 8 years driving around town with no HOA).

 

[Aerides]

Our "quorum" was a simple majority. Our charter dated back to early 50s. It was so obsolete that it was illegal -forbidding houses sold to minorities. It was rewritten in early 2000. But to think these stories are untrue and that HOAs are immune to a rogue force is naïve.

Not saying that it never happens but it's far more likely to have bad neighbors impact your quality of life and property values than it is to find a good hoa go rogue and screw up the neighborhood.

 

[TripleLindy]

This is likely because you have a natural mode of behavior and set of personal values that comports well, with what modern American HOAs generally try to achieve. I mean that as a statement of fact, and nowise a criticism.

Take in contrast my hypothetical neighbor Granny Doris. Doris has 10 cats; maybe more, but some are unaccounted-for. They sleep on her porch. Some roam the neighborhood. Doris wouldn't do well in a HOA. But I like Doris. I would relish the opportunity to visit and to play with her cats. Maybe even take home a kitten one day.

Also consider my hypothetical neighbor Rufus. Rufus has several Chevy Camaros in various states of disrepair in his front yard. That's because his back yard is already filled with spare parts and tools. Rufus knows how to tune a mechanical-secondary Holley better than anyone else in town. I regularly consult with Rufus about automotive questions. His expertise is trustworthy and cogent, even if his language is a bit salty and his drawl occasionally hard to dicpher.

My other hypothetical neighbor JimBob has an "off of the books" distillery. I'm not personally a fan of distilled spirits; they're too intense for me. But JimBob's wife, Trixie, mixes the moonshine with lemon juice from their home-grown lemons. It's a wonderful beverage, if not strictly speaking refreshing on a hot afternoon.

You see the difference? It's a matter of lifestyle, values, priorities. If you'd keep your grass neatly trimmed, regardless of whether there's a HOA, then a HOA is likely not burdensome. If the only way for your grass to get mowed is if your neighbor lets you borrow his goats, then likely a HOA wouldn't be a good fit.

You could start a comic strip with those characters! Yes, I understand the appeal of zero oversight, although I wouldn’t categorize that as a value, per se. I imagine I could live quite comfortably in the neighborhood you describe. But I suspect it has a dark side, which I’d prefer to avoid.

Rufus has a day job and works on his cars at night. Lots of banging, loud exhaust systems, and bright lights. And on the weekends, he, JimBob and Trixie (who are rumored to be a throuple), tend to over indulge in the moonshine lemon drops and use one of the broken down cars as target practice for their modified (ie illegal) AK47s. And while enjoying their beverages, JimBob lost track of the ethanol vapor pressure on his latest batch, triggering an early Independence Day event.

I appreciate my HOA even more, now!

 

[zinger1457]

Also consider my hypothetical neighbor Rufus. Rufus has several Chevy Camaros in various states of disrepair in his front yard. That's because his back yard is already filled with spare parts and tools. Rufus knows how to tune a mechanical-secondary Holley better than anyone else in town. I regularly consult with Rufus about automotive questions. His expertise is trustworthy and cogent, even if his language is a bit salty and his drawl occasionally hard to dicpher.

Good luck selling your house if Rufus is your next door neighbor or be ready to take a big hit to offload it.

 

[COcheesehead]

Where we live a permit is required (also we do not have any purple hot tubs in front yards that I have seen during my 8 years driving around town with no HOA).

Great, I’ll bring mine over shortly. I plan to bring my livestock with me too.

 

[Fermion]

Great, I’ll bring mine over shortly. I plan to bring my livestock with me too.

How do you have livestock in a HOA?

 

[COcheesehead]

How do you have livestock in a HOA?

I am allowed two animals per dwelling.

 

[Fermion]

I am allowed two animals per dwelling.

Wait, so you can have 2 cows in your yard but get charged a $100 fee for un-collapsed cardboard

 

[RetiredHappy]

Wait, so you can have 2 cows in your yard but get charged a $100 fee for un-collapsed cardboard

 

[Diogenes]

Wait, so you can have 2 cows in your yard but get charged a $100 fee for un-collapsed cardboard

They're HOA-compliant cows, and so, they're not detrimental to property values. One might however have asked, what's the policy on cardboard cutouts of cows?

Speaking of animals, one of my resentments is that many jurisdictions don't allow the raising of pigs. It's not even a HOA thing... it's a municipal stricture. One might understand such limitation in say Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. But in the US?

 

[RetiredHappy]

They're HOA-compliant cows, and so, they're not detrimental to property values. One might however have asked, what's the policy on cardboard cutouts of cows?

Speaking of animals, one of my resentments is that many jurisdictions don't allow the raising of pigs. It's not even a HOA thing... it's a municipal stricture. One might understand such limitation in say Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. But in the US?

Pigs will eat human beings if given a chance. I don't trust pigs with a ten-foot pole.

 

[COcheesehead]

Wait, so you can have 2 cows in your yard but get charged a $100 fee for un-collapsed cardboard

I have curbside recycling that allows us to commingle paper/glass/cardboard etc and I don’t have to break down anything. It’s luxury living at its finest.
Regarding the $100. I am not the OP. You are confusing posts.

 

[RetiredHappy]

We get fortnightly bulk pickup where we live, and ties in with the day of trash and recycle pickup. You can leave anything out for bulk pickup which is really convenient - old appliance, that old couch or large cardboard box (no need to break it down).

 

[Texas Proud]

No having an HOA can lead to what happened to a coworker many years ago...

He had 10 acres of land south of Houston... someone bought the 10 acres across the street from him and then started to put heavy equipment on it..

He said that just across his driveway when he was leaving was a huge dragline he got to see... and there were a lot of other pieces of equipment there... his wonderful place that he enjoyed was now worth less than half of what he paid and he did not enjoy it anymore..

Sure, an HOA can be rouge... but if it really is bad and a lot of the residents do not like it they can be voted out... I lived in a neighborhood where a guy was the head of the HOA and hired his own company to manage the neighborhood.. he raised the fee so he could pay himself... lots of people got pissed off and the next year he was voted out and the contract cancelled...

If you do not like an HOA then maybe you might be the problem... mine makes some really stupid decisions but they are trying to make the neighborhood better... not be some kind of czar cracking down on any kind of rule violation...

 

[COcheesehead]

We get fortnightly bulk pickup where we live, and ties in with the day of trash and recycle pickup. You can leave anything out for bulk pickup which is really convenient - old appliance, that old couch or large cardboard box (no need to break it down).

We have that once a year where you can leave anything at the road. Most things never make it to the actual pick up. People drive around and help themselves.