Unusual sense of "Honor"

[mickeyd]

I guess we all have our idea of what honor means to us, but this definition of honor is rather perverse according to my value system. Slitting your wrists and ODing on pills is hardly an honorable act. It is, in fact, a cowardly act IMHO.

Like I said, we all have our own idea about these things.

Thierry Magon de La Villehuchet’s sense of honor led the descendent of French army officers and an ennobled shipping family to commit suicide after he put his friends and family in a “catastrophic” financial situation by investing with Bernard Madoff, his brother said.

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

 

[FIREd]

Do you object to the suicide part or the way he killed himself?
Should he have done it "Seppuku Style"?

Seppuku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Part of the samurai honor code, seppuku was used voluntarily by samurai to die with honor rather than fall into the hands of their enemies, as a form of capital punishment for samurai who have committed serious offenses, and for reasons that shamed them.

It may be unusual to you, but I think that in many cultures around the world, killing oneself to atone for wrongdoings or shameful behavior is considered the "honorable" thing to do.

I have far more respect for de La Villehuchet than I do for Madoff. The former (who after all was also a victim of the Madoff scam) had the decency to care about the consequences of his actions and decided to pay the ultimate price for his mistakes. The latter is sitting in his multi-million dollar NYC condo sipping Champagne and refusing to apologize to or compensate any of the thousands of victims whose life he's ruined. He is using millions of dollar stolen from investors for a top defense team that might get him a reduced sentence despite his confessing of the crime. It's disgusting.

 

[CuppaJoe]

de La Villehuchet

had the decency to care about the consequences of his actions and decided to pay the ultimate price for his mistakes....

That is pretty much what I thought when I heard, approx. 1990, that my company's financial advisor had committed suicide following the Executive Life scandal. It struck me as unusual, and yes, honorable, that someone would think that what he does at w*rk matters.

 

[Frugality_of_Apathy]

I guess we all have our idea of what honor means to us, but this definition of honor is rather perverse according to my value system. Slitting your wrists and ODing on pills is hardly an honorable act. It is, in fact, a cowardly act IMHO.

Like I said, we all have our own idea about these things.



Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

So you think he should have done the right thing and killed his friends and family first and then himself to get everyone out of their financial troubles?

 

[Meadbh]

Killing oneself to avoid blame is the ultimate in conflict avoidance. IMHO it would have taken more courage to face the music.

 

[CyclingInvestor]

I have far more respect for de La Villehuchet than I do for Madoff.

Kind of a low bar to clear.

 

[FIREd]

Killing oneself to avoid blame is the ultimate in conflict avoidance. IMHO it would have taken more courage to face the music.

What was his crime? He invested his family's, friends' and clients' money with an investment firm headed by a well-respected financier who turned out to be a sociopathic crook. He's not the one who stole the money. His mistake was a lack of due diligence. Beside civil suits that he might have won ultimately, he probably would have never been charged criminally. He killed himself because he couldn't live with the thought that his mistakes ruined people's lives, not because he couldn't stand the idea of spending the rest of his life in jail.

 

[FIREd]

Kind of a low bar to clear.

When you talk about Wall Street, you have to keep the bar low.

 

[samclem]

What was his crime?

Meadbh didn't say he'd committed a crime, just that de La Villehuchet killed himself rather than "face the music." "Face the music" could very well mean facing those friends and family members every day and living with the consequences of his decision. As you point out, he didn't deliberately defraud these people, but there's no getting around the fact that his decision to trust Madhoff was not a good one.

IMO, the most honorable thing to have done would have been to fight like hell to extract every nickle available from Madhoff, then, if his conscience still demanded it, he could se other means at his disposal (get a j*b, etc) to help repay those who trusted him. Depending on the circumstances, I'm not sure he "owes" them this--if they were adults and capable of making their own decisions, they are just as much to blame as de La Villehuchet, because they made the same (honest but negligent) mistake that he made.

 

[TromboneAl]

Killing oneself to avoid blame is the ultimate in conflict avoidance. IMHO it would have taken more courage to face the music.

Killing yourself means never having to say you're sorry.

 

[Khan]

Killing yourself means never having to say you're sorry.

Definitely similar to being in love.

 

[Goonie]

Killing yourself means never having to say you're sorry.

Killing yourself also means that all of your p*ssed off friends and relatives won't get the chance to do it for you...if they are/were so inclined!

 

[ziggy29]

Killing yourself also means that all of your p*ssed off friends and relatives won't get the chance to do it for you...if they are/were so inclined!

And with them, you may not get to choose how you meet your demise.

 

[NW-Bound]

Killing yourself means never having to say you're sorry.

Killing yourself may be the ultimate way to say you are sorry.

"Sorry seems to be the hardest word..." Elton John

 

[freebird5825]

If he had not killed himself, he woud have made a heck of a witness for prosecutors to put Madoff away for a long time. He obviously had a conscience, a rare thing in that world.

 

[Frugality_of_Apathy]

If he had not killed himself, he woud have made a heck of a witness for prosecutors to put Madoff away for a long time. He obviously had a conscience, a rare thing in that world.

Unless he just killed himself because he lost his own money and didn't really care bout the other people.

 

[haha]

Unless he just killed himself because he lost his own money and didn't really care bout the other people.

We have certainly killed some quality time on this important issue.

I vote that he killed himself because his hemorrhoids were bothering him. Turns out it had nothing to do with Madoff.

Ha

 

[Orchidflower]

I agree totally with FIREdreamer on this one. Same exact sentiments--only I wish we had French-style prisons with ultra-harsh conditions for a creep like Madoff. Scott Peterson got off too lightly, and Madoff will, too. Bottom line is America is too soft on crime too often I think, and extreme cases like Madoff deserve harsher sentencing that America allows to happen.

 

[Goonie]

I agree with Ha....must've been because of his hemorrhoids.

 

[Nords]

I guess we all have our idea of what honor means to us, but this definition of honor is rather perverse according to my value system. Slitting your wrists and ODing on pills is hardly an honorable act. It is, in fact, a cowardly act IMHO.

Concur.

I've had three shipmates commit suicide for what they deemed "honorable" reasons, yet all were permanent solutions to temporary problems. Their thoughtless actions also left behind two destroyed families and entire commands of saddened & pissed-off people who cared about them and would have appreciated a chance to support and help them.

I'm pretty sure that de La Villehuchet’s family & friends would have wanted him around to help everyone get through this, even if it was for primal-scream therapy. He's only managed to pile additional trauma & despair onto an already sad situation.

 

[DangerMouse]

I guess one thing that we have to remember is that anyone who does commit suicide is not likely to be in a rational state of mind at the time. If de La Villehuchet had of been and discussed his plan with those close to him I would like to believe that they would have been able to instigate an intervention to prevent this happening.

From my experience from what I see suicide solves no problems, all it does it leave a devastating affect on those left behind. What is scary is suicide does seem to be on the rise among people in their 30s/40s. It's as if people are losing the ability to deal with their issues.

Now if Bernie was willing to do the honorable thing, I don't think there would be too many tears shed. I am tired of seeing picture of his smiling mug parading the streets of NY as he gets into his expensive car outside his expensive apt.

 

[Meadbh]

On another thread I wondered aloud about two retirees who had committed suicide possibly triggered by financial woes. Here comes another tragedy:

globeandmail.com: Couple in suspected suicide pact had money woes

Regrettably I think we will see more of such cases, and mostly involving innocent people.