Vanguard's Jack Brennan in Saving Success

[RetireeRobert]

New article from Vangaurd on psychology of saving.

Vanguard − Jack Brennan on the habits of successful investors

 

[Nords]

Vanguard − Jack Brennan on the habits of successful investors

I have a hard time listening to anyone who treated Jack Bogle in the manner in which he did. I've never heard the story but it's difficult to imagine a scenario where you'd exclaim "Why, that Bogle-- what a SOB! No wonder Brennan hates his guts!!"

I don't choose my rock stars or my sports heroes for their sense of honor & ethics, but then I don't depend on them for investment advice either-- only for their entertainment value.

 

[clifp]

I have a hard time listening to anyone who treated Jack Bogle in the manner in which he did. I've never heard the story but it's difficult to imagine a scenario where you'd exclaim "Why, that Bogle-- what a SOB! No wonder Brennan hates his guts!!"

I've heard vague discussions about Bogle and Vanguard not parting on the best of the terms. But I've never heard any details anybody know what went down?

 

[RetireeRobert]

I have a hard time listening to anyone who treated Jack Bogle in the manner in which he did.

Don't listen to him then. Don't gripe to us about it.

 

[REWahoo]

Don't listen to him then. Don't gripe to us about it.

OK, following your line of reasoning: Don't read posts you don't agree with. Don't gripe to us about it if you do.

 

[RetireeRobert]

OK, following your line of reasoning: Don't read posts you don't agree with. Don't gripe to us about it if you do.

Your logic does not compute. I won't know I don't agree with a post "until" I read it. The previous poster "already" had formed an opinion of Mr Brennan, and had "already" decided he would never listen to him. He was just telling the rest of us of his "already" pre-judged opinion of Mr Brennan.
I have not and will not tell you folks of my pre-judged opinions about posters.

 

[Nords]

Don't listen to him then. Don't gripe to us about it.

The previous poster "already" had formed an opinion of Mr Brennan, and had "already" decided he would never listen to him. He was just telling the rest of us of his "already" pre-judged opinion of Mr Brennan.
I have not and will not tell you folks of my pre-judged opinions about posters.

Well, one difference between us appears to be that I'm willing to consider having my opinion changed by a discussion of the events that led me to form my opinion. F'gosh sakes, there seems to be a little distance between "I'm having a hard time" and "I have not and will not".

It seems odd that Brennan doesn't get along with a guy known as "Saint Jack", someone who essentially set up the conditions enabling Brennan to get his job. I've read a lot about Bogle, I've read a lot about Sauder, and I've read a lot about Vanguard. I'm having trouble seeing how Brennan is adding value to the firm, especially considering the complaints of Dee Dee Havens (admittedly somewhat old news by now) and the feelings of other posters. Admittedly the posters are in the minority but there's the feelings nonetheless.

You put up the post. I'm trying to get a discussion going by sharing my comments on how I feel about the credibility of the guy you linked to. What other response did you expect from a discussion board when you put up the post? It's OK with me if you want to gripe to us about it; I'd certainly hate to be accused of attempting to stifle a discussion.

If you know what led to the acrimony between Brennan & Bogle then cough it up. If you don't know, then let's see if someone else does.

 

[RetireeRobert]

.......You put up the post. I'm trying to get a discussion going by sharing my comments on how I feel about the credibility of the guy you linked to. What other response did you expect from a discussion board when you put up the post?.......

I did indeed start the thread. I apologize for my rude prior response.

 

[donheff]

Well, I don't know anything about the dispute with Bogle but I did read the article. Nothing much there for anyone who is already here. But it did include a picture of the author. If his personality matches his expression, no wonder Bogle didn't get along with him.

 

[lswswein]

BW Online | January 19, 2004 | The Vanguard Advantage
This talks about the differences between Brennan & Bogle
-h

 

[Nords]

BW Online | January 19, 2004 | The Vanguard Advantage
This talks about the differences between Brennan & Bogle

Thanks, that's all we ever see in the press about their dispute...

 

[Hillbilly]

Doubt we will know the whole story, ever .....though it does look like managment turf wars I've seen at MegaCorp.

 

[RetireeRobert]

Thanks, that's all we ever see in the press about their dispute...

I started this thread with reference to Vanguard's Brennan article thinking folks might comment on the substance of the article's proferred advice (or lack thereof depending on one's opinion). Given Vanguard is one of two or three 19000 pound gorillas in the personal finance arena, I thought when Vanguard talks, a few people might listen.

We seem to have nearly immediately branched off topic into discussion of Brennan's inter-personal relationships. That may be an interesting topic, but not what I had in mind in linking the Vanguard article in this thread.

I had more in mind, what do people think of such advice from Vanguard's article as:

"The biggest mistake that I have seen over the years is assuming somebody else will take care of your financial future, or 'I'll get to it down the road.' Both are mistakes of significant proportions."

Or some of the other nuggets offered in the article.

 

[twaddle]

Such drama! Somehow, it doesn't cause me to worry about Vanguard when their biggest move away from Bogle's philosophy is to offer low-cost ETFs.

Now if they would just offer low-cost DFA fund clones, I'd be even happier.

 

[clifp]

I had more in mind, what do people think of such advice from Vanguard's article as:

"The biggest mistake that I have seen over the years is assuming somebody else will take care of your financial future, or 'I'll get to it down the road.' Both are mistakes of significant proportions."

Or some of the other nuggets offered in the article.

It seems like obvious advice, and hardly note worthy. Most of the FIRED people on the board would say similar things. I suspect that some of them would be able to put it in more memorable language.

One of main assets of a Warren Buffett or a John Bogle is they are good communicator and it is interesting and occassionally illuminating to listen to them talk about financial matters. Brennan is giving good advice but in the language of corporate speak. "Significant proportions", yawn "how about stocking up on Friskies in your later years."

 

[CuppaJoe]

I did indeed start the thread. I apologize for my rude prior response.

Wow, RRobert, that would be numero ONE! I'm counting the number of apologies I've seen on this board excluding my own. O Rare!

 

[Spanky]

"The biggest mistake that I have seen over the years is assuming somebody else will take care of your financial future, or 'I'll get to it down the road.' Both are mistakes of significant proportions."

That's pretty much a generic statement about taking responsibilities over your life (or destiny) and not expecting someone else to take care of you.

 

[Nords]

Given Vanguard is one of two or three 19000 pound gorillas in the personal finance arena, I thought when Vanguard talks, a few people might listen.

I don't think Brennan has any more credibility than the Johnsons or any other fund-company owners. In fact it's all too easy to wonder if their "advice" is a way of drumming up business.

I'd rather take advice from those who can do the math or analyze the correlations or provide the tools or at least appeal to my confirmation biases. Someone like Bernstein or Dimson & Marsh or Dory or Hebeler.

 

[RetireeRobert]

That's pretty much a generic statement about taking responsibilities over your life (or destiny) and not expecting someone else to take care of you.

So you think these are not the biggest two mistakes people make, and you think its bad advice?

 

[RetireeRobert]

I don't think Brennan has any more credibility than the Johnsons or any other fund-company owners.

Maybe not, but that doesn't really matter to my question at hand. Are those two things mentioned NOT the two biggest mistakes people make? If so, what are the two biggest mistakes?

 

[twaddle]

Maybe not, but that doesn't really matter to my question at hand. Are those two things mentioned NOT the two biggest mistakes people make? If so, what are the two biggest mistakes?

Brennan is saying that "assuming somebody else will take care of your financial future" is a mistake. I agree. But his solution is that the stock market will take care of you. Isn't that the same mistake with just a different "savior?"

He uses the example of US stock returns. But he doesn't mention that US returns are atypical. There are plenty of other markets that have had poorer long-term returns.

I like to use the example of Japan -- the second largest economy in the world. Japan has had several long periods with poor returns. In fact, investing in Japan (via my 401(k)) in the 80's taught me an important lesson: I have no control over market returns. If I want to ensure success, I need to invest in myself.

So, I quit my job, started a company, sold the company, and retired happily. Personally, I think it was a better way to ensure my financial future than a faith in the market. But then, I'm not selling mutual funds.

 

[Nords]

I started this thread with reference to Vanguard's Brennan article thinking folks might comment on the substance of the article's proferred advice (or lack thereof depending on one's opinion).

Maybe not, but that doesn't really matter to my question at hand. Are those two things mentioned NOT the two biggest mistakes people make? If so, what are the two biggest mistakes?

Sorry if I'm not responding with the answers you're looking for. Apparently I've made enough contributions to this thread, and I'll stop before I've put up as many posts in it as you have...

 

[Spanky]

So you think these are not the biggest two mistakes people make, and you think its bad advice?

I do not disagree with what he said.