Vinyl Plank Flooring helps or hurts home sale?

[Sanstar]

We’ve had them all and learned there are pros and cons for them all. The one thing I won’t have is carpet. I like the durability and looks of bamboo and ceramic tile vs wood planks. We choose tile that looks like wood planks and really like it. It’s easy to clean, looks good and bought 2 cases of the same lot for future. Already have 2 chips but easy to hide with a matching color sharpie.

We’ve bought and sold 8 houses and flooring was never a big deal as we have the time, skill and willingness to put what we want down (since it will never be carpet). Course at this age and stage, I’d just hire someone. Anyone who can afford a high end house can probably do the same.

 

[FlaGator]

This is consistent with the recommendations I'm getting in the western Panhandle as I prepare to downsize.

Too much sand for carpet, one can't afford a vac good enough to keep it clean, and it would be futile anyway. Considered replacing wood flooring around the kitchen island with tile after a water leak, but was advised to keep the flooring consistent throughout the common areas. With the difficulty of matching different flooring types, expect I'll be replacing everything, up and down, with laminate. All in the name of maximizing resale.

 

[Badger]

We just built a high-end lake home and the builder suggested that we look at this product. It took me a while to train him on the fact that we would not have plastic anywhere. His other enthusiasm was for Cambria "quartz" countertops which are basically powdered rock in a plastic matrix. Nope. Not them either.'

Our floors are either ceramic tile or solid T&G hickory. Some carpet. Countertops granite or onyx.

To the OP's question I don't expect that we will ever "warm up" to plastic floor finishes or other cheap products.

+1 The floors in our modest 1955 home are either the original oak that I sanded and refinished or porcelain tile that I installed. I like the look and wear of real wood and a long lasting tile. I'm sure some of the vinyl flooring is good and some even looks like real wood. It is amazing what has been done in the past few years with artificial flooring but I guess I am too "old school".

 

[momoney]

Problems. We got problems! Here's what it looks like when LVP goes bad, and why it went bad.

This is an installation we had to re-do. Two big problems: 1) Lined up seams of planks. 2) Didn't click together properly.

This was done by an unsupervised crew of volunteers who declared themselves flooring experts. They were not. If they had even read half the instructions, this wouldn't have happened. The pattern issue is egregious. It not only looks bad to have end seams lined up, it also creates a weak floor. The best lock is a semi-random 3-plank offset. Pros are really good and this and make it seem 100% random. Oddly, some people like a 2-plank offset which creates an "H" pattern. It think it is terrible and weakens the lock.

Red circle: lined up seams. Blue: seam not locked
View attachment 51856

Close up of the failed seams. (And more end seams too close.) I actually think they never were locked to begin with. The rubber tongues are gray and if you have gray floor, you sometimes can't see it. I emphasize with my volunteers that you must wear your glasses and then run your fingernail. 100% of the seam from top to bottom must be tight. Even 10% not locking will cause separation.
View attachment 51857

Another bad seam in this room. At first glance, looks OK, then you can see the tongue. The gap is about 1/16" which is a disaster. (Look diagonally from left bottom up to top right, and also notice the ends are not aligned.)
View attachment 51858

Let's talk trim. A good trim job won't have huge gaps at the bottom like the gray LVP in this picture. Also, door casings will be undercut and the LVP slide under in an expert fashion. This takes finesse to do correctly. I should say I won't criticize the previous volunteer crew too much for this high trim. It was a mobile home with a lot of rot. The floor may sag here.

I didn't do the gray, I did the dark. She wanted this color and product. It was a sticky-back LVP which was super cheap and I would not recommend. But since she paid for part of it, I wasn't going to say no. We gave her a good subfloor so maybe it worked.

One more thing: notice the threshold-transition. Another bad install method is to not properly space out the nail holes. You want them nice and even. Also, high end installs use better thresholds. It is one way to get that "exclusivity".

View attachment 51859

How do you know you are buying a quality floor in the first place? I've read some of the problem can be weak interlocking joints? What kind of wear layer do you need for a big dog, heavy furniture or kids dropping toys on it?

 

[JoeWras]

How do you know you are buying a quality floor in the first place? I've read some of the problem can be weak interlocking joints? What kind of wear layer do you need for a big dog, heavy furniture or kids dropping toys on it?

To quote that judge: "I know it when I see it." Just kidding.

The wear layer issue matters, but as you mention, the interlock is most important.

First, wear layers under 10MIL are non-starters. I'd go with 12 and over, hopefully over 20.

The interlock is something that is hard to evaluate and you have to just go with reviews and professional opinion. I personally like Pergo's system, but there are other brands that are good. If you can put your hand on the tongue and it feels like it could just break off, then that's bad stuff. I usually see that in the big box brands under $2 sq ft. Yeah, price matters. It also matters if they stored it outside in the sun or 110 degree heat. Great way to ruin LVP.

 

[skyking1]

Thank you @JoeWras
I will take your advice and other places on the web when we get to that time in the build. It is like tile; If you want some good input on a DIY tile job, go sign up for JohnBridge tile forum. The pros hang out there, give advice and post some fantastic showcases.
John Bridge Tile Forum, DIY Tile Advice, Tile How-to Information, Tile Your World

 

[ransil]

To quote that judge: "I know it when I see it." Just kidding.

The wear layer issue matters, but as you mention, the interlock is most important.

First, wear layers under 10MIL are non-starters. I'd go with 12 and over, hopefully over 20.

The interlock is something that is hard to evaluate and you have to just go with reviews and professional opinion. I personally like Pergo's system, but there are other brands that are good. If you can put your hand on the tongue and it feels like it could just break off, then that's bad stuff. I usually see that in the big box brands under $2 sq ft. Yeah, price matters. It also matters if they stored it outside in the sun or 110 degree heat. Great way to ruin LVP.

I used Lowes stuff around $350 sqft in my house, it was pretty crappy, locks on the long end kept breaking, that scrap pile got big and if you didn't notice it til 2 or 3 rows it was a lot of taking apart.

 

[ransil]

Thank you @JoeWras
I will take your advice and other places on the web when we get to that time in the build. It is like tile; If you want some good input on a DIY tile job, go sign up for JohnBridge tile forum. The pros hang out there, give advice and post some fantastic showcases.
John Bridge Tile Forum, DIY Tile Advice, Tile How-to Information, Tile Your World

Just like any forum the experts have their way and everyone else is a hack and doing it wrong....

If they would have seen the tile I ripped up in my old house they would have declared it a disaster that would only last a year before falling apart, but after 30 years it held up fine ( was installed by the original builder) , just outdated.

 

[JoeWras]

I used Lowes stuff around $350 sqft in my house, it was pretty crappy, locks on the long end kept breaking, that scrap pile got big and if you didn't notice it til 2 or 3 rows it was a lot of taking apart.

One of the agencies we work with only sources material from Lowes. I find that stuff (can't remember the brand) no fun to work with.

HomeDepot sees a lot of Lifeproof. I find that if that stuff is put together properly and carefully, it is OK, but if you make a mistake and want to take it apart, it is toast. The tongues just crumble and rip. Lifeproof LVP also requires a degree of finesse I haven't seen from other brands to correctly lock the long sides. When it is done, though, it is locked well.

The other dumb thing I've seen inexperienced installers do is knock the crap out of the tapping block against the tongue. This is very easy to do with cheap LVP and somewhat fatal to the piece. It is much easier to work with the old style laminate that has a nice edge to knock against.

 

[folivier]

I had Lifeproof vinyl planks installed in our cabin. Very pleased with it. It's an exclusive for Home Depot.
There is a video showing the same flooring installed on a shrimp boat to test it's durability. Pretty impressive.

 

[skyking1]

Thanks Joe. I won't be doing the LifeProof, I plan on spending a little more than that at a flooring store. Looking for robust locking and thicker wear surface, thicker product overall.

 

[Music Lover]

How do you know you are buying a quality floor in the first place? I've read some of the problem can be weak interlocking joints? What kind of wear layer do you need for a big dog, heavy furniture or kids dropping toys on it?

Real wood doesn't fare very well with large dogs and kids but some LVP will do well.

Good quality LVP will last a very long time. We bought LVP for our cabin that came with a 10 year light commercial/30 year residential warranty.

If it's installed correctly on a flat surface the joints shouldn't separate.

 

[momoney]

but if you make a mistake and want to take it apart, it is toast.

So does this mean you can't replace a damaged plank down the road? Because it will break when you take it apart?

 

[momoney]

Costco has Mohawk and Shaw flooring with 20 Mil wear layer.

Looks like people hate the way Mohawk locks together. Sounds like it's best to buy a box and put it through a torture test.

 

[JoeWras]

I had Lifeproof vinyl planks installed in our cabin. Very pleased with it. It's an exclusive for Home Depot.
There is a video showing the same flooring installed on a shrimp boat to test it's durability. Pretty impressive.

We do a lot of Lifeproof since one of our agencies is a Home Depot only client. The "bad" install above was Lifeproof, but the fault of the installers.

Here's some Lifeproof in action. In progress, tools of the trade:

"Oh, I can't do that." Wrong. Here's one of my 80 year old volunteers. She was awesome!

More Lifeproof, from 2 years ago. It is doing well. I'll show you the picture first then discuss after:

This is an interesting situation. We are putting LVP over asbestos sheet goods. You've seen it in the other pictures above. The problem is will water get under the LVP and cause mold? TBD. So we have a fairly tight seam of 1/4" against the shower, but this was filled with high quality silicone caulk. Normally, you want a floor to float in all directions. But since this is so small, we decided floating on 3 sides is OK, and the caulk bond at the shower will stop the water from getting under (along with a door, not pictured here as it is a curtain, but got changed later).

Floating. Yeah. So the cheaper transition thresholds allow the floor to float under it. You can also see up top how my team under-cut the frame molding so the floor could move under it, while giving the fake appearance of a tight seam. Meanwhile, along the walls is a big old gap. Looks terrible! It is intentional. It allows the float. A day after this picture was taken, baseboard was installed against the wall to hide that gap.

I hope I am not boring you with my "baby pictures." My hope is someone finds this helpful as you consider any kind of floating floor, be it LVP, traditional laminate and even some engineered hardwoods.

 

[JoeWras]

So does this mean you can't replace a damaged plank down the road? Because it will break when you take it apart?

Well, with traditional laminate, I found it easy. With LVP, I find a lot of the rubber tongues break off. Here's what you need to do. Keep a box of extras if you feel there could be a repair down the road. Also keep in mind repairs in the middle of the room are difficult and usually glue is involved anyway (since you can't get the proper angles to lock), so it may not matter. A repair operation may require the use of a dremel tool and insertion of a new plank locked on one side and glued on the others.

What I'm talking about is that a lot of inexperienced people give it a try during installation and then take it apart the wrong way, and rip the tongues to pieces. You can take apart low-end LVP during installation, but you have to be very, very careful, and you have to have an uninstalled edge to do it.

Costco has Mohawk and Shaw flooring with 20 Mil wear layer.

Looks like people hate the way Mohawk locks together. Sounds like it's best to buy a box and put it through a torture test.

Pros rave about Shaw. I've never used it since I'm a volunteer of the charity agencies that use Big Box stores. However, I've seen some pros really like Home Depot's LifeProof. YMMV.

Yes, it is a really good idea to buy a box ahead of time and play with it. That's a very small investment.

 

[skyking1]

I am thinking the higher end glue down stuff is what I would want. At least a repair then is straightforward. Destroy the target piece strategically and glue the replacement in, sans some of the locks.
It is going down over the whole house, so not having to float each room with transitions would be far better. The subfloor will be as perfect as it can be. It will go down right and if it has any issues I will long blend it with a 6' straight edge.

 

[Janet H]

I am thinking the higher end glue down stuff is what I would want. At least a repair then is straightforward. Destroy the target piece strategically and glue the replacement in, sans some of the locks.
It is going down over the whole house, so not having to float each room with transitions would be far better. The subfloor will be as perfect as it can be. It will go down right and if it has any issues I will long blend it with a 6' straight edge.

We installed LVP in our current home as the only viable option. Our log house has a slight wave across the main floor span and hardwood planks would have been impossible to install. We used glue-down wide format planks and it was a fairly easy DIY job once the right materials were acquired.

It doesn't really look like wood, but it looks nice and is durable and easy to clean. There is a vast range of product quality out there, some with a very thick wear layer, others... not so much.

One tip: Be meticulous about cleaning the subsurface. Every small bit of dirt will telegraph through the planks. Your subfloor must be SMOOTH and clean.

 

[jazz4cash]

Naturally I’ve been staring at flooring everywhere I go since seeing this thread. I’ve concluded VPL can be a help or hinder the sale of a home. It mostly depends on the demographic of your buyers. It probably all looks pretty good when new if properly installed. If you don’t really notice it’s LVP that’s probably good.

 

[JoeWras]

We installed LVP in our current home as the only viable option. Our log house has a slight wave across the main floor span and hardwood planks would have been impossible to install. We used glue-down wide format planks and it was a fairly easy DIY job once the right materials were acquired.

It doesn't really look like wood, but it looks nice and is durable and easy to clean. There is a vast range of product quality out there, some with a very thick wear layer, others... not so much.

One tip: Be meticulous about cleaning the subsurface. Every small bit of dirt will telegraph through the planks. Your subfloor must be SMOOTH and clean.

This is absolutely true! Cleanliness is so important. In my house, I put down a layer of luan (1/4" plywood) to cover all the mess that was on the particleboard below.

Let me say one more thing about gluing vs floating. Glued down "feels better" when you walk it. It feels solid, so if someone doesn't want to draw attention to the floor, glued down is the way.

Floating is fine, and what we do on charity jobs, but it can feel soft. This is especially true of laminates that require a foam under layment. Now, that's not all bad, it is actually easy on the body over time. But it feels different and you know you don't have 3/4" nailed down oak planks under your feet.

 

[zinger1457]

Just like any forum the experts have their way and everyone else is a hack and doing it wrong....

If they would have seen the tile I ripped up in my old house they would have declared it a disaster that would only last a year before falling apart, but after 30 years it held up fine ( was installed by the original builder) , just outdated.

I found that many of the so called experts on forums also try and make the work seem a lot more difficult than it really is, maybe hoping folks will give up and hire someone to do it. The biggest issue is time, will take most of us 3X as long to do the work as an experienced contractor.

 

[momoney]

This is absolutely true! Cleanliness is so important. In my house, I put down a layer of luan (1/4" plywood) to cover all the mess that was on the particleboard below.

Let me say one more thing about gluing vs floating. Glued down "feels better" when you walk it. It feels solid, so if someone doesn't want to draw attention to the floor, glued down is the way.

Floating is fine, and what we do on charity jobs, but it can feel soft. This is especially true of laminates that require a foam under layment. Now, that's not all bad, it is actually easy on the body over time. But it feels different and you know you don't have 3/4" nailed down oak planks under your feet.

What do you use for leveling an old wood subfloor with dips in it?

 

[skyking1]

@JoeWras , Working a whole house with glue down, is it still best practice to work a room and plan some doorway transitions to make it possible, and just butt joint those doorways? It seems like it would be tough to keep perfect schedule without having to back into a room somewhere.
@momoney , I used a product called rock hard and a belt sander and long strait edge under our 15 year old cheap laminate. I started with feathering down the high spots, then floated the rock hard concrete product in the lows. Wear a proper mask and ventilate when sanding that. The key is to not have to, put it in right with a long sheet rock blade.

 

[momoney]

Here's what you need to do. Keep a box of extras if you feel there could be a repair down the road. Also keep in mind repairs in the middle of the room are difficult and usually glue is involved anyway (since you can't get the proper angles to lock), so it may not matter. A repair operation may require the use of a dremel tool and insertion of a new plank locked on one side and glued on the others.

If the damage was on the outer edge near the front door I imagine you could take it apart and make an easy repair? But can you take apart the floor from both edges or only from the edge you laid last?

 

[momoney]

Just like any forum the experts have their way and everyone else is a hack and doing it wrong....

If they would have seen the tile I ripped up in my old house they would have declared it a disaster that would only last a year before falling apart, but after 30 years it held up fine ( was installed by the original builder) , just outdated.

We used a flexible mortar to put ceramic tile over an old asbestos tile floor in the basement. The pros said not to do it. It's held up for over 20 years.