What to do when the improbable happens?

[aja8888]

Some things in life don’t always happen right when you have a good plan. That happened to me a couple of years ago and even though I saw it coming, I really did not see it happening so quickly. And I really didn’t have a plan for THAT to happen THEN. I did have a plan though, but it was for me to leave first. Such is life.

That event was my wife passing away shortly after I had a daily visit with her in the skilled care nursing facility. UGH.

I was set to bring her home from the skilled care nursing facility since she was past the bad lung infection and her bloodwork was good. All we needed to do was finish out the antibiotics that were being used to fix the problem…maybe a week or so more there. I had home health care hired and was waiting. She had advanced COPD and was on oxygen for the last few years, but somewhat mobile and functional.

Of course, I was in a state of shock after that happened. And that lasted for quite a while (many months). It took me two months to get the memorial service organized and done (with help). I ended up selling the big house and moving into a smaller one. Our dog died a few months after DW and that was not anticipated. Moving into a new place was a monumental job as slimming down was tough to do (pretty much by myself). Looking back, I should have rented a place rather than buy another house. Oh well...

Basically, I had to restart my life over as our friends were pretty much not that interested in spending time with me without her. Good thing I had (still have) my close circle of friends as they were invaluable during my period of starting my new life, and still are. My new life is not what I expected it to be, but that’s another topic for a thread!

I read many threads here that say you have “everything” all set for when you (the man) pass before DW so she will be all “set” for the rest of her life. That’s a good plan……Have you actually sat down with your spouse/partner and discussed the opposite happening? I'll bet she has not thought much about it. Have you?

OK, so the mission of this thread is to get you thinking about just that, seeing your planning has been the other way around (you “going first”). What will you do if she goes first?

Have you thought that out?

 

[imjustawarrior]

Thank you for sharing your story.

My mom passed a few years ago and my dad is still going. I was shocked at how ill prepared my dad was at handling my mom's last few months. They had seen many friends pass, and they were still ill prepared.

I have it on my mental to do list to start preparing once I turn 60. Maybe I should do things sooner.

 

[AudiDudi]

Some things in life don’t always happen right when you have a good plan. That happened to me a couple of years ago and even though I saw it coming, I really did not see it happening so quickly. And I really didn’t have a plan for THAT to happen THEN. I did have a plan though, but it was for me to leave first. Such is life.

That event was my wife passing away shortly after I had a daily visit with her in the skilled care nursing facility. UGH.

I was set to bring her home from the skilled care nursing facility since she was past the bad lung infection and her bloodwork was good. All we needed to do was finish out the antibiotics that were being used to fix the problem…maybe a week or so more there. I had home health care hired and was waiting. She had advanced COPD and was on oxygen for the last few years, but somewhat mobile and functional.

Of course, I was in a state of shock after that happened. And that lasted for quite a while (many months). It took me two months to get the memorial service organized and done (with help). I ended up selling the big house and moving into a smaller one. Our dog died a few months after DW and that was not anticipated. Moving into a new place was a monumental job as slimming down was tough to do (pretty much by myself). Looking back, I should have rented a place rather than buy another house. Oh well...

Basically, I had to restart my life over as our friends were pretty much not that interested in spending time with me without her. Good thing I had (still have) my close circle of friends as they were invaluable during my period of starting my new life, and still are. My new life is not what I expected it to be, but that’s another topic for a thread!

I read many threads here that say you have “everything” all set for when you (the man) pass before DW so she will be all “set” for the rest of her life. That’s a good plan……Have you actually sat down with your spouse/partner and discussed the opposite happening? I'll bet she has not thought much about it. Have you?

OK, so the mission of this thread is to get you thinking about just that, seeing your planning has been the other way around (you “going first”). What will you do if she goes first?

Have you thought that out?

Yes I have thought that out. Burial site paid for as is transportation airport to airport. If she goes 1st I lose her Social Security, drop her Medicare expenses, move to the single tax bracket amongst other things. Financially, not too big an issue. I'd probably sell the house (may do that anyway) but not sure where I'd end up.

On a side note, I hope you picked up some IVR in the 7.80's before it took off the last couple days.

 

[CindyBlue]

I'm so sorry to read about how your DW passed so suddenly, aja888. I lost my husband suddenly, too, last August. Thinking about it now (after many months of not being able to think at all) I am glad he died first. I miss him beyond belief, almost beyond caring if I live or die...still working out that part...

We had always thought that I'd go first. My family is very short lived. It was not in any way in our thoughts - or plans - that he would go first.

But I believe that I am more able to handle things without him than I think he would have been if I died first. There's no way to know, of course...just what I think I know about him after spending almost 45 years together. He was very competent at everything, yet such a gentle, funny, sweet, honest soul, much better at "people" than I ever was, or will be. But I was always the practical one, willing to stick to any chore like a bulldog in order to get it done. This has paid off the last few months.

It was helped by his planning, some of which I was unaware...he just did it, in order to take care of me "just in case." Also helped by the fact that we did most everything together, from financial work to property work, so I was an active participant and have the knowledge and experience to do the financial and physical work that needs to be done to keep our place afloat.

I was/am better at bulling my way through bureaucracy than he was, which helped as I worked on getting everything (hopefully) settled after his death. It's been a long, hard haul, with still more to go.

Of course, he would have had his three children to help him if I had died first. While his children and I are cordial, and one has consented to still be my second POA, I know they don't feel the same responsibility toward me as they would have toward him. So I am essentially alone, and that is a lonely and frankly scary place to be.

I agree with you that couples should have this sometimes hard conversation. I have recently told a number of friends this. Make sure each of you know how to turn off the valves and what company to call in case the well goes out. Make sure each of you knows what the property insurance company is. Make sure each of you knows the where the bank accounts are and the other financial information - including account numbers and phone numbers. There will be no way to ask the other after the other dies...please plan now. It is an act of love and caring - it will save your loved one a great deal of stress should the unthinkable happen.

 

[Midpack]

It's a good idea, but DW just can't bring herself to talk about either of us dying. So I've done everything to make sure she's taken care of if I go first, that's all I can do. If she goes first, I also have a circle of friends, couples (they'll probably drift away like the OP) and just guys, that I'd hope to rely on. Will cross that bridge when I get to it.

Believe me, I'm a planner, for things that may never even happen. But even I know 'life is what happens when you're busy making other plans'...

 

[aja8888]

I'm so sorry to read about how your DW passed so suddenly, aja888. I lost my husband suddenly, too, last August. Thinking about it now (after many months of not being able to think at all) I am glad he died first. I miss him beyond belief, almost beyond caring if I live or die...still working out that part...

We had always thought that I'd go first. My family is very short lived. It was not in any way in our thoughts - or plans - that he would go first.

But I believe that I am more able to handle things without him than I think he would have been if I died first. There's no way to know, of course...just what I think I know about him after spending almost 45 years together. He was very competent at everything, yet such a gentle, funny, sweet, honest soul, much better at "people" than I ever was, or will be. But I was always the practical one, willing to stick to any chore like a bulldog in order to get it done. This has paid off the last few months.

It was helped by his planning, some of which I was unaware...he just did it, in order to take care of me "just in case." Also helped by the fact that we did most everything together, from financial work to property work, so I was an active participant and have the knowledge and experience to do the financial and physical work that needs to be done to keep our place afloat.

I was/am better at bulling my way through bureaucracy than he was, which helped as I worked on getting everything (hopefully) settled after his death. It's been a long, hard haul, with still more to go.

Of course, he would have had his three children to help him if I had died first. While his children and I are cordial, and one has consented to still be my second POA, I know they don't feel the same responsibility toward me as they would have toward him. So I am essentially alone, and that is a lonely and frankly scary place to be.

I agree with you that couples should have this sometimes hard conversation. I have recently told a number of friends this. Make sure each of you know how to turn off the valves and what company to call in case the well goes out. Make sure each of you knows what the property insurance company is. Make sure each of you knows the where the bank accounts are and the other financial information - including account numbers and phone numbers. There will be no way to ask the other after the other dies...please plan now. It is an act of love and caring - it will save your loved one a great deal of stress should the unthinkable happen.

Hi Cindy, I'm glad to hear you are getting past losing your husband and it's a process, that's for sure. Interesting that you mention his three children and how they are not much support to you. My DW's three adult children were obviously devastated by her passing, but they were not much help to me when I had to pull it all together for the memorial service and the eventual downsizing. Oh well, my one daughter was a big help, but she has a busy life. Mostly everything was done by me at the ripe old age of 80 at the time. Fortunately, I am in good physical condition so it wasn't a problem.

Since her passing, her kids are distant from me and that's a bit disappointing as we were OK for 28 years. And her one granddaughter hasn't called, or sent me a text since the memorial service and we pretty much raised her through her college years.

 

[RetiredHappy]

With my husband and I, the assumption is that he will pass first as he is 14 years older than me and I know what it meant in the case of financial impact - higher tax bracket and significant IRMAA. Also, my plan is to disclaim part of his IRA so that it goes to my son who is the contingent beneficiary. I handle most of our financial matters. Earlier this week, I sat down with my husband and recommended that he do just a few thousand dollars in ROTH conversion, up until the bottom of the next IRMAA bracket, so as to delay going into the next IRMAA for as long as possible, and also for when one of us goes first to reduce the IRMAA impact. It is the first time that I actually said out loud that it may be me who goes first and how it will impact him. I realized that it was difficult to get it out of my mouth.

My fear is what if both of us go together. I am worried that my son would not know where to start going through estate stuff, even though I leave him a detailed letter, and updated every year on his birthday.

 

[iloveyoga]

I'm sure DH thinks he will go first, but I have planned for both scenarios. Nobody can predict. The money will be fine either way and we have some of our final arrangements made. All documents are set up. The really hard part is how lonely either one of us would be and how much we would miss the other. After many many happy years together.

 

[aja8888]

I'm sure DH thinks he will go first, but I have planned for both scenarios. Nobody can predict. The money will be fine either way and we have some of our final arrangements made. All documents are set up. The really hard part is how lonely either one of us would be and how much we would miss the other. After many many happy years together.

How much you would miss each other is something you cannot judge while alive. I think I miss her even more now that it's been over two years. I don't believe that will end.

 

[iloveyoga]

How much you would miss each other is something you cannot judge while alive. I think I miss her even more now that it's been over two years. I don't believe that will end.

Yes I agree, that's the part you can't even imagine. One day at a time, right?

 

[athena53]

My late husband was 15 years older and had health issues. Although he was a very responsible spender, I handled all the finances except his checking account and a credit card in his name. Both were used for walking-around money and gave him some independence. He had SS deposited into the checking account and would give me the money left over at the end of the month to invest- in my name!

Nearly everything was in trust a my name, other than the IRAs. We drew up documents making two of my brothers (both accountants) trustees, with DH as a trustee if he wanted to be. They got along well and appreciated what a good husband and stepfather DH had turned out to be after my second marriage ended in flames and I know they would have provided whatever he needed. He died in 2016. He would have done OK if I'd gone first but I'm grateful I was there to take care of him in his final illness.

I've lost touch with his son, which is unfortunate. DH had an IRA with $14,000 that he wanted him to have; stepson was mostly interested in how to liquidate it quickly (ad he was young enough that he would have had the 10% early-withdrawal penalty. Instead I moved it into a Spousal IRA and wrote stepson a check. Shortly after that me moved and no longer answered the e-mail address I had for him.

 

[MarieIG]

My planning has centered around me going first.

If he goes first - I picture that scene from Lord of the Rings with the Elf wife of the mortal King just wondering around in grief after she lost him. Finances should not be an issue - but everything else . . .

I have heard not to make any big decisions for a year.

 

[aja8888]

I have heard not to make any big decisions for a year.

In my case, I should have waited for two years. But you don't know for sure since there are so many new decisions to make and you are grieving (even if you don't realize it).

 

[Route246]

I talk about this with my wife but she isn't comfortable with the topic. I leave it to basics and all she can think about is how inconvenient it would be. I told her better to be inconvenienced than be the one in the ground. I'm prepared if she goes first from a logistical standpoint. All grieving and emotion aside I have a plan. I have taken care of all of the financial and legal things for her even though she controls the family budget and finances she has no clue how it runs, she just pushes the buttons, check the balances and things just work. She uses me frequently to fix the "damsel in distress" items like the Internet going down, a circuit breaker tripping or most frequently the garage door opener not working. I tell her that she is over reliant on me and needs to take on some of these things herself in order to prepare for me going first. She's a bit to at ease now since I take care of all of the home improvement things that need fixing.

When I do show her how to turn off the water and gas, disconnect connections, turn off the feed to the water heater, etc. she just seems disinterested. Not sure if I can fix that.

 

[Out of Steam]

My wife and I are beginning this process. We have been sharing our preferences about funerals with our daughter, as well as some basics about our financial status. My wife would also like for us to have a plan for burial or a niche for our ashes. To my surprise, her preference would be to be in the same cemetery as my parents.

As she has had a chronic illness for years, and I have been diagnosed with a serious condition only recently, my wife is skeptical about the idea that she could outlive me.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I talk about this with my wife but she isn't comfortable with the topic. I leave it to basics and all she can think about is how inconvenient it would be. I told her better to be inconvenienced than be the one in the ground. I'm prepared if she goes first from a logistical standpoint. All grieving and emotion aside I have a plan. I have taken care of all of the financial and legal things for her even though she controls the family budget and finances she has no clue how it runs, she just pushes the buttons, check the balances and things just work. She uses me frequently to fix the "damsel in distress" items like the Internet going down, a circuit breaker tripping or most frequently the garage door opener not working. I tell her that she is over reliant on me and needs to take on some of these things herself in order to prepare for me going first. She's a bit to at ease now since I take care of all of the home improvement things that need fixing.

When I do show her how to turn off the water and gas, disconnect connections, turn off the feed to the water heater, etc. she just seems disinterested. Not sure if I can fix that.

I would hate to be left alone but I am the one who usually rescues the dude in distress, as I am the one who troubleshoots internet going down, resetting circuit breaker or whatever is not working at home. He hates it whenever I say he likes to say "Help!" on anything to do with IT. We both made a living in IT and even though we were both in management, I am really the technically inclined one. I spend a day preparing numbers for doing our taxes and we itemize our deductions. He will be so lost if I die first.

 

[steelpony10]

Well usually one spouse is left alone eventually.

All our finances are arranged as if I’m the survivor because my wife has an almost pathological fear of dying and end of life issues. My opinion of course. No rush for anything else for me.

So having tried and tried again. I decided I should just take care of myself. If something happens to my wife I’ll be right in an independent living facility in about a year I guess. Everybody is your friend (more like a short term acquaintance ) there with lots of activities and mixers like being in high school all over again.

Most everything is a random event though. You just muddle though like anyone else would but you never forget.

 

[pacergal]

DH and I are the same age. We talked about final decisions, financials, and updated our wills, POA, Advanced directives about 8 years ago, after my last parent died.
We briefly discussed with our kids. But probably time to do it again.
DH and I both talk about life after one of us is gone. Not my favorite subject, but it is reality.
Chances are DH will die first, but if the opposite happens, he will need our kids to help him most likely much more and longer than I would.
It is a good discussion to have.

 

[FlaGator]

How much you would miss each other is something you cannot judge while alive. I think I miss her even more now that it's been over two years. I don't believe that will end.

Anecdote of one more - I think this is true. It's been 11+ years since the first wife left after 30+years together. We always figured I would be the first to go given our family histories.

When I wish today that I had a partner who really understood me, it's wife #1 that I miss, not the second (that only lasted a few years).

But, as part of getting over my sadness for what has been lost, I try to remind myself how great the good times were with both of them. I was blessed to have two wonderful women in my life. Keeping hoping I'll get hit with a lucky stick and there will be a third one before it's over . I haven't stopped looking.

 

[CindyBlue]

Hi Cindy, I'm glad to hear you are getting past losing your husband and it's a process, that's for sure. Interesting that you mention his three children and how they are not much support to you. My DW's three adult children were obviously devastated by her passing, but they were not much help to me when I had to pull it all together for the memorial service and the eventual downsizing. Oh well, my one daughter was a big help, but she has a busy life. Mostly everything was done by me at the ripe old age of 80 at the time. Fortunately, I am in good physical condition so it wasn't a problem.

Since her passing, her kids are distant from me and that's a bit disappointing as we were OK for 28 years. And her one granddaughter hasn't called, or sent me a text since the memorial service and we pretty much raised her through her college years.

I feel so badly for you, aja888. I didn't understand what you and everyone who has lost a soulmate is going through, until now. And I'm sorry I didn't...and yet I'm sorry I do now, because of what made me understand.

I can't call it "getting past" losing my husband...it's worse now than it was then, because the finality of it is sinking in. I am an emotional wreck. I get the practical, day to day things done because I have to, and because I'm made that way, and because he would be very upset if I didn't. But I never knew I could hurt this much. A friend of ours told us years ago that "you never get over it, you just get through it" and that's what I'm trying to do, just get through it. Is there ever a "feeling better" after something like this happens? How does anyone ever survive it? Because I don't see it...

 

[aja8888]

I feel so badly for you, aja888. I didn't understand what you and everyone who has lost a soulmate is going through, until now. And I'm sorry I didn't...and yet I'm sorry I do now, because of what made me understand.

I can't call it "getting past" losing my husband...it's worse now than it was then, because the finality of it is sinking in. I am an emotional wreck. I get the practical, day to day things done because I have to, and because I'm made that way, and because he would be very upset if I didn't. But I never knew I could hurt this much. A friend of ours told us years ago that "you never get over it, you just get through it" and that's what I'm trying to do, just get through it. Is there ever a "feeling better" after something like this happens? How does anyone ever survive it? Because I don't see it...

Is there ever a feeling better? I wish I knew, but I'm certainly not there yet. Actually, what I tried to do is stay as busy as I could and just keep getting things done. But, in all reality, I feel like I am just "going through the motions" and my heart is not in any of whatever I am doing. I guess you could call it some kind of depression.

Right after DW passed, I felt I had to get out of the 55+ community we were in because I was surrounded by a lot of widows and widowers and really had no good friends. The community was old (30 years) and was aging out since many of the residents were original. I'm glad I left there, but still haven't found my "place" so to say. Routinely, thoughts cross my mind to move back East where I came from, but I have been gone way too long to start there again.

 

[FlaGator]

I see a lot of people above who are well-prepared, financially, if one goes before the other. That's a critical act of love to ensure that the one left behind has no financial concerns when that happens. I did the same, but it played out differently than I had prepared for and I will be forever grateful for her support in building up our finances as it allowed me to parent our kids full-time as she had.

Aja's challenge still stands, and I think it's relevant for every surviving spouse - once the finances are square, how does daily life go on?

I had the benefit of raising two pre-teen kids after my wife passed, so there wasn't a lot of time for sadness or personal pursuits. Those came after they got older, with the full reconciliation of the sadness of her demise only this year after running out of legitimate reasons and excuses for putting it off. Those were difficult months, and I think I'm through the worst of it now. At this point, I believe I'll be sad for the rest of my life that our kids grew up with a mother who loved them dearly and that the woman I dedicated my life to is no longer here to live out all things we talked about doing together. Until lately, it had been more an intellectual sadness, now it's the kind of thing that can stop whatever else I'm doing until I can turn my thoughts in a different direction.

The hardest for me in the first few years was having to make every decision solo after decades of having an understanding sounding board. The biggest decisions were the hardest, though even something as simple as "do we go to Disney World for 3 days or 4 days" caused short-term paralysis and anxiety. That had been a 10 minute discussion and decision before. There had been general discussion about if she should move with the kids if something happened to me, but there was no discussion about me leaving my job and moving 600 miles away after she was gone, even after her terminal diagnosis. Both turned out to be good decisions but there was a lot of anxiety along the way. Got through those with a few close friends and family members serving as the sounding board the wife once did.

At this point my kids are a few hours away, mostly launched and I'm living alone. Now what? Many of the things I once thought would be fun to do, or to do again at this point in my life have -0- appeal knowing I'll do them by myself. Days are filled as I wish, but there is no one to recap the day with, cook with or for, kick me out of bed if I'm snoring or too restless, nor to have coffee with in the morning.

I recently went through a phase of asking myself "what's the point now, what's next?" nearly every day. Not desperation, nor a cry for help, more the kind of thing one might expect from an INTJ operations guy . I did what I intended to do as far as raising the kids, now I have to figure out the next big thing I need to accomplish. Starting to think it may be as simple as getting to end with all the fun and joy I can find, but likely without the kind of companionship I treasure. Maybe more than that will develop, and I'm keeping my options open.

The advice section/TL,DR for those reluctant to consider the one being left alone:
-Maintain/build/rebuild family relationships. Siblings, close cousins, nieces, nephews. Parents, if you still have them.
-Keep your close friends close. Call them, go see them. You can pick up right where you left off years ago.
-Get to know your neighbors. Look out for them, the good ones will look out for you.
-Accept the possibility life won't work out as you expected and you'll need to make adjustments, maybe big ones.
-It's OK to be sad, do your best to avoid anger at changing circumstances.
-One can't control everything life serves up, but influence everything you can

 

[pacergal]

My heart goes out to each of you who has lost a beloved spouse or partner.

It is not easy, but an unfortunate part of life with someone you love.
I try to keep in touch with our widow friend in California and my siblings all meet weekly with my sister who lost her DH, and text daily.
Loneliness, I think, would be the hardest part for me. It is important to stay in touch.

 

[yakers]

DW is a couple years older and men are not long lived in my family so I have set up finances to cover her and which little interests her. She is quite social and I expect would do well enough without me , more than the reverse. She is not only DW, she is my best friend.

 

[Texas Proud]

For any who is still having some problems... go to a grief group at your church or a local church or some other place... my oldest sister did.. it helped... but from what she tells me it can easily be a year or more...

Her DH died over 18 years ago... and she admits that she will still 'talk' to him every once in awhile... but she volunteers at those groups to help people...