Where to retire early

I think a mutual stand down would be a good idea here.

Here is one data point for both of you. In my younger days, I was Navy submariner. I lived 24 hours a day for literally months at a time in a closed atmosphere that was generally >5000 ppm CO2. It did give me headaches, which were temporarily abated on the rare occasions we could go to periscope depth and ventilate the boat. To the best of my knowledge, however, it did not have any other ill effects on me, then or since.

I personally would not worry about the CO2 levels caused by nearby wildfires. Airborne particulates (i.e. soot) would probably be a greater danger.
 
I never attempt to tell anyone how they should "feel" but the PEL (Permissible Exposure Level for CO2 as enforced by OSHA is 5000 ppm.) That means, OSHA's limit can be experienced by a w*rker for 8 hours and they would not expect any adverse effects in "most" people. After all, when you exhale, you are exhaling almost 40,000ppm CO2. How does 1000 ppm (or even 5000 ppm) cause one problems? I'm not saying it can't or never does. I'm saying the limits were set for the average w*rker (doing light to heavy l@bor.)

My guess, if you are experiencing "issues" with CO2 at 1000ppm, then your "space" is tight enough to increase the CO2 to that level and some other "insult" is the cause of your issues. I've had to chase down "issues" in "spaces" before and have found some really bizarre situations that caused them. My favorite was a company library in which 3 empl*yees were experiencing dizziness, head aches, nausea and other more or less diffuse situations. We FINALLY found that people were having a "reaction" to one of the employee's leather coats! I'm not making this up.

My point - CO2 at 1000ppm may be a "signal" that your space is too "tight" and that other offending "smells" or "irritants" have become concentrated enough to cause a few people (you in particular) some distress that most people would not experience. The leather coat only affected 3 people if I recall correctly.

Anyway, here is the OSHA document that applies.


"Permissable level" from OSHA is not contradictory to the level with the link I posted. If you're below permissable it does not mean that you are in a healthy region. There are alot of polluted cities where the air is not healthy but is below OSHA limits. It does not mean it's healthy. OSHA permits asbestos in buildings. In fact my office has asbestos in the walls and roof with over 40%. That doesn't mean asbestos is not harmful. Cigarette smoking is legal. It does not mean it's healthy. Nitrates are used in deli meats and permitted. It is known to cause colon cancer. I work in health care and have graduate degree in this area so I can tell you that the permissable level is not a black and white level for what is healthy and not. Our body is not a digital system. It's an analog system and we're not all clones either. The further you are below the alert levels the healthier you will be.
 
I think a mutual stand down would be a good idea here.

Here is one data point for both of you. In my younger days, I was Navy submariner. I lived 24 hours a day for literally months at a time in a closed atmosphere that was generally >5000 ppm CO2. It did give me headaches, which were temporarily abated on the rare occasions we could go to periscope depth and ventilate the boat. To the best of my knowledge, however, it did not have any other ill effects on me, then or since.

I personally would not worry about the CO2 levels caused by nearby wildfires. Airborne particulates (i.e. soot) would probably be a greater danger.
I can agree on that. I think I want to point out that disputing whether one of hundreds of substances from wildfire is unhealthy or not does not really discount that wildfire smoke is unhealthy. There is no controversy of health effects of wildfire smoke in scientific community.
 
Utah'n here. The politics here are disgusting. Local government keeps tacking on fees for everything. Water will get an extra $27/month fee starting in a few months. My phone bill has a local govt fee. I pay for 2 different school districts, even though I am in 1. Yet, everyone screams about federal gov't control. It's rough living here. Friends are hard to find if you differ from their political view. Religion plays a big actor in this. We plan on moving out of Utah as soon as our parents move along. St George is ungodly hot in the summer with no shade. And they are running out of water, so living there is probably not sustainable. Small town Utah is extremely conservative and being an outsider will for sure alienate you from others. There are 3 main healthcare choices - and they are merging everywhere. So healthcare costs are high as competition keeps getting squashed. SLC mountains are jam packed. If you want to go for a hike on the weekend, you better get there before 9AM or the parking is full. Weekdays are a little better, but trails are getting more and more crowded. We love hiking, but the SLC mountains are starting to be less fun as you battle to get there.
I haven't read all the replies...I'm assuming there is more to your water bill than the "extra" $27. I'm in semi-rural central IL and many times in July/Aug. I need to water to keep my lawn from going dormant. That doesn't mean it dies but it does get weakened to the point that if I don't water it just becomes weeds.

Anyway, my typical water/sewer/garbage bill is $70/month but can easily go over $200 or $250 if it is dry and I'm watering. And I'm living 'next door' to the biggest source of fresh water in the entire country! (the Great Lakes). I'd think that in arid parts of the country the price of water would be at much more of a premium to help curtail use.

But to stay on topic - as much as I dislike the humidity and the fairly cold weather of the midwest (but seldom much below zero :) ) I dislike the kinds of heat experienced in FL and AZ even more. And my budget won't allow me to live in a place like Southern California. So I'll count on the fact that once retired I can travel to other climes and otherwise get to pick and choose how much I have to go out into the "bad" weather.
 
I haven't read all the replies...I'm assuming there is more to your water bill than the "extra" $27. I'm in semi-rural central IL and many times in July/Aug. I need to water to keep my lawn from going dormant. That doesn't mean it dies but it does get weakened to the point that if I don't water it just becomes weeds.

Anyway, my typical water/sewer/garbage bill is $70/month but can easily go over $200 or $250 if it is dry and I'm watering. And I'm living 'next door' to the biggest source of fresh water in the entire country! (the Great Lakes). I'd think that in arid parts of the country the price of water would be at much more of a premium to help curtail use.

But to stay on topic - as much as I dislike the humidity and the fairly cold weather of the midwest (but seldom much below zero :) ) I dislike the kinds of heat experienced in FL and AZ even more. And my budget won't allow me to live in a place like Southern California. So I'll count on the fact that once retired I can travel to other climes and otherwise get to pick and choose how much I have to go out into the "bad" weather.
That's a $27 infrastructure fee. + usage + basic fee. We have a .21 acre yard, that is 1/2 xeric and our last bill was $116 and that is before the $27 addition we will see this month. So 2 people, xeric yard $143/mo water bill. Sewer and garbage as separate.
 
I visited Austin and Tampa recently and liked Tampa weather more as well as the natural beauty but the storms made driving scary. I just realized how much I hate driving in Florida over the years. The rain is crazy. Impossible to see. Seems inconvenient to live there. Arkansas and Tennessee are next on my list to visit this fall. I don't know why there aren't more talk about Arkansas. COL is one of the lowest and the hot springs and mountains seem pretty cool. I heard high crime is a problem there.
 
Anyone lived in Virginia Beach? Considered the second prettiest city by Americans. Moderate weather (32-87 degrees), low crime, nice beach, low cost of living, good quality air. What's not to like?
 
I visited Austin and Tampa recently and liked Tampa weather more as well as the natural beauty but the storms made driving scary. I just realized how much I hate driving in Florida over the years. The rain is crazy. Impossible to see. Seems inconvenient to live there. Arkansas and Tennessee are next on my list to visit this fall. I don't know why there aren't more talk about Arkansas. COL is one of the lowest and the hot springs and mountains seem pretty cool. I heard high crime is a problem there.
Tampa has 3-4 rainy months, so the majority is drier.
Arkansas - there could be some reasons why it is a LCOL area.
 
as much as I dislike the humidity and the fairly cold weather of the midwest (but seldom much below zero :) ) I dislike the kinds of heat experienced in FL and AZ even more. And my budget won't allow me to live in a place like Southern California. So I'll count on the fact that once retired I can travel to other climes and otherwise get to pick and choose how much I have to go out into the "bad" weather.

Are you sure? There are plenty of 55+ places in SoCal that aren't ridic priced in Seal beach and Laguna Woods...
 
Are you sure? There are plenty of 55+ places in SoCal that aren't ridic priced in Seal beach and Laguna Woods...
Climate is all over the place these days. I'm sitting here in Silicon valley and it's 9 degrees hotter than Austin today. Temps about same for next 10 days. On sunny days in Austin, humidity is 35% in afternoon. I was just there a couple of weeks ago and dried my clothes on the balcony in an hour. Didn't feel too bad because of dry heat in summer in afternoon. Some places in the middle of the country like Austin doesn't seem to be too bad because it's not too dry or humid.
I haven't read all the replies...I'm assuming there is more to your water bill than the "extra" $27. I'm in semi-rural central IL and many times in July/Aug. I need to water to keep my lawn from going dormant. That doesn't mean it dies but it does get weakened to the point that if I don't water it just becomes weeds.

Anyway, my typical water/sewer/garbage bill is $70/month but can easily go over $200 or $250 if it is dry and I'm watering. And I'm living 'next door' to the biggest source of fresh water in the entire country! (the Great Lakes). I'd think that in arid parts of the country the price of water would be at much more of a premium to help curtail use.

But to stay on topic - as much as I dislike the humidity and the fairly cold weather of the midwest (but seldom much below zero :) ) I dislike the kinds of heat experienced in FL and AZ even more. And my budget won't allow me to live in a place like Southern California. So I'll count on the fact that once retired I can travel to other climes and otherwise get to pick and choose how much I have to go out into the "bad" weather.
Climate is all over the place these days. I'm sitting here in Silicon valley and it's 9 degrees hotter than Austin today. Temps about same for next 10 days. On sunny days in Austin, humidity is 35% in afternoon. I was just there a couple of weeks ago and dried my clothes on the balcony in an hour. Didn't feel too bad because of dry heat in summer in afternoon. Some places in the middle of the country like Austin doesn't seem to be too bad because it's not too dry or humid. I'm thinking of making the move to Austin from Silicon valley next year if I don't find anything better. It's growing on me. Everytime I visit Austin, weather feels fine. Fall, winter and spring are awesome. Summer is hot but it didn't feel too bad especially in the morning and on cloudy days which happens alot this year. I was there in the winter this year and was sixty I believe. Pretty nice.
 
550
Heard alot of complaints about traffic in Austin. This train seems to be a good solution to traffic no?
 
This is a great survey from 1000 Americans in 2024 and it gives quite a bit of insight into different cities and what's good and bad. Surprised to find that Tampa tops the list for most desirable city to live. Sunbelt seem well represented on top 10

10 Most Desirable Cities to Live​

  1. Tampa, FL
  2. Charlotte, NC
  3. Virginia Beach, VA
  4. Nashville, TN
  5. Orlando, FL
  6. Raleigh, NC
  7. Atlanta, GA
  8. Denver, CO
  9. Las Vegas, NV
  10. Miami, FL


Friendly cities pretty important also and here are the friendliest cities:
"It's only fitting, then, that Southern cities are also considered some of the nicest places in America:
  1. Nashville, TN
  2. Charlotte, NC
  3. Virginia Beach, VA
  4. Atlanta, GA
  5. Austin, TX
  6. Raleigh, NC
  7. Tampa, FL
  8. Boston, MA
  9. Seattle, WA
  10. Birmingham, AL; Denver, CO; Orlando, FL (tied)
Nashville is considered one of the nicest cities in the United States, with 23% of Americans saying it has the top-five most friendly residents. Despite an influx of tourists in recent years, most Nashville residents will still greet you with a smile or meet you on the dance floor of a honky tonk."
 
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I've lived in all 3 places. I'm surprised allergies weren't mentioned. In Austin, cedar fever and oak pollen fever seasons can be very tough, depending on the individual. In Austin, we had chiggers and fire ants in our yard that were hard to control. Regarding outdoors, I was frustrated by the lack of places to go hiking around Austin, compared to Utah. 94% of Texas is private land (Utah is 71% public), and there are precious few mountains near Austin. You can't escape the heat, except by swimming. OK, there's Big Bend, but that's an 8 hour drive. There's hill country, but that's small rolling hills, and mostly private land. As for Utah, the smog inversion in winter can be tough in the valleys, and you might have to shovel snow. But Austin is not in the same league as Utah for outdoor activity. Especially if you do snow sports.
 
I've lived in all 3 places. I'm surprised allergies weren't mentioned. In Austin, cedar fever and oak pollen fever seasons can be very tough, depending on the individual. In Austin, we had chiggers and fire ants in our yard that were hard to control. Regarding outdoors, I was frustrated by the lack of places to go hiking around Austin, compared to Utah. 94% of Texas is private land (Utah is 71% public), and there are precious few mountains near Austin. You can't escape the heat, except by swimming. OK, there's Big Bend, but that's an 8 hour drive. There's hill country, but that's small rolling hills, and mostly private land. As for Utah, the smog inversion in winter can be tough in the valleys, and you might have to shovel snow. But Austin is not in the same league as Utah for outdoor activity. Especially if you do snow sports.
I liked alot of hiking to waterfalls in Austin: Twin falls, McKinney falls, Perdanles falls
Then there's Lake Travis, Lake Austin and Ladybird lake. Lake Travis with 270 miles shore. There are so many things to do around the lake.
There are so many springs that are pretty cool to hike and explore including Krauss, Barton, deep Eddy, Jacobs well. Hamilton.
Some caves to explore also: Longhorn cavern state park Longhorn Cavern State Park | Burnet, TX
Inner space cavern Inner Space Cavern | Georgetown, TX
 
Went to Big Bend once. In February. It was in the high 90's. Haven't been back.
 
Are you sure? There are plenty of 55+ places in SoCal that aren't ridic priced in Seal beach and Laguna Woods...
Did a little research on these suggestions. Seems like some good options but some of those monthly dues on some places I looked at are a little $$$.
 
Did a little research on these suggestions. Seems like some good options but some of those monthly dues on some places I looked at are a little $$$.

The ones that aren't age restricted ahve the same HOA fees but significantly higher purchase prices.
 
I've lived in all 3 places. I'm surprised allergies weren't mentioned. In Austin, cedar fever and oak pollen fever seasons can be very tough, depending on the individual. In Austin, we had chiggers and fire ants in our yard that were hard to control. Regarding outdoors, I was frustrated by the lack of places to go hiking around Austin, compared to Utah. 94% of Texas is private land (Utah is 71% public), and there are precious few mountains near Austin. You can't escape the heat, except by swimming. OK, there's Big Bend, but that's an 8 hour drive. There's hill country, but that's small rolling hills, and mostly private land. As for Utah, the smog inversion in winter can be tough in the valleys, and you might have to shovel snow. But Austin is not in the same league as Utah for outdoor activity. Especially if you do snow sports.
There is a nice trail around the river in Austin downtown. Overall, downtown is pretty walkable. But indeed there is not much choice for hiking compared to SF Bay Area and you have to drive to those places.
 
This is a great survey from 1000 Americans in 2024 and it gives quite a bit of insight into different cities and what's good and bad. Surprised to find that Tampa tops the list for most desirable city to live. Sunbelt seem well represented on top 10

10 Most Desirable Cities to Live​

  1. Tampa, FL
  2. Charlotte, NC
  3. Virginia Beach, VA
  4. Nashville, TN
  5. Orlando, FL
  6. Raleigh, NC
  7. Atlanta, GA
  8. Denver, CO
  9. Las Vegas, NV
  10. Miami, FL
I have lived in Florida since 1962 and I don't see the attraction for #1, #5, or #10. I lived in Orlando before Disney and it was a great place but it has become so crowded I don't even like to visit. Maybe others like the crowds and traffic but I prefer living a couple of blocks from the ocean in my small beach town that has all the amenities you could want without excessive traffic. Now that school has begun it is even more enjoyable.
I haven't lived in the other cities but have been to most of them and those seem to have some of the same issues.
 
The ones that aren't age restricted have the same HOA fees but significantly higher purchase prices.
Do you know much about the areas? When I check for listings a lot of them say they are co-ops and that property taxes are usually included in the HOA fees. That would be a nice little extra.
Laguna Woods Village seems like a nice place with lots of amenities and things to do. Sounds like a fun place with activities to keep busy. I have watched some videos and visited their website and seems like a caring community. They are older smaller homes and condos but most have nice views of surrounding greenery. That is all I want at this point. At 61 tired of worry about my landscaping.
We are from the Bay Area and have been in Phoenix for 18 long years. So miss the California weather. We may plan a visit to the areas in the upcoming months. I think we could sell our paid off home here buy a smaller condo there and pocket enough cash to cover those HOA fees for at least 10 years hopefully.
 
Do you know much about the areas? When I check for listings a lot of them say they are co-ops and that property taxes are usually included in the HOA fees. That would be a nice little extra.
Laguna Woods Village seems like a nice place with lots of amenities and things to do. Sounds like a fun place with activities to keep busy. I have watched some videos and visited their website and seems like a caring community. They are older smaller homes and condos but most have nice views of surrounding greenery. That is all I want at this point. At 61 tired of worry about my landscaping.
We are from the Bay Area and have been in Phoenix for 18 long years. So miss the California weather. We may plan a visit to the areas in the upcoming months. I think we could sell our paid off home here buy a smaller condo there and pocket enough cash to cover those HOA fees for at least 10 years hopefully.

My parents live part time in Leisure World Seal Beach. They seem to enjoy it.
 
Do you know much about the areas? When I check for listings a lot of them say they are co-ops and that property taxes are usually included in the HOA fees. That would be a nice little extra.
Laguna Woods Village seems like a nice place with lots of amenities and things to do. Sounds like a fun place with activities to keep busy. I have watched some videos and visited their website and seems like a caring community. They are older smaller homes and condos but most have nice views of surrounding greenery. That is all I want at this point. At 61 tired of worry about my landscaping.
We are from the Bay Area and have been in Phoenix for 18 long years. So miss the California weather. We may plan a visit to the areas in the upcoming months. I think we could sell our paid off home here buy a smaller condo there and pocket enough cash to cover those HOA fees for at least 10 years hopefully.
Assessment on condos now are pretty high in california so watch out for the property tax on those.
 
I have lived in Florida since 1962 and I don't see the attraction for #1, #5, or #10. I lived in Orlando before Disney and it was a great place but it has become so crowded I don't even like to visit. Maybe others like the crowds and traffic but I prefer living a couple of blocks from the ocean in my small beach town that has all the amenities you could want without excessive traffic. Now that school has begun it is even more enjoyable.
I haven't lived in the other cities but have been to most of them and those seem to have some of the same issues.
Do you find that the comfortable winter weather outweighs the uncomfortable summer weather? Do you get used the heat and humidity of the summer? I visited Florida many times in the summer and the weather was no problem because I was always doing water sports in the day so not sure how it is to live there in the summer.
 
Do you find that the comfortable winter weather outweighs the uncomfortable summer weather? Do you get used the heat and humidity of the summer? I visited Florida many times in the summer and the weather was no problem because I was always doing water sports in the day so not sure how it is to live there in the summer.
I love the Fall, Winter, and early Spring. After that I generally do my fun activities and outdoor "Honey Do" chores early in the morning and stop before noon. After that I find things to do in the home or shopping indoors, or maybe go to an early movie. The temperatures during June through Oct is 90 to 100+. The heat is secondary to the extremely high humidity that is the real problem. You have to experience at least a couple of months during the summer to appreciate what it is like.
 
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