Whole house battery backup or natural gas powered standby generator?

[PointBreeze]

Our area has recent suffered two multi-day widespread power outages. Fortunately, our house was not affected, but neighborhoods very nearby were. The problem is lots of old trees and a lot more high wind events.

I have been considering a battery backup, but getting one with enough capacity for a several-day outage is prohibitively expensive. So now considering a standby backup generator powered by natural gas.

We have a very small house and do not use much electricity (except during a heat wave for the whole house AC), so probably a 12kw or 14kw model would work.

Has anyone installed one? If so, what are your thoughts?

Can it be installed in an area of full sun? We have a great location to install it, but it would be in full sun for several hours/day. Also, how noisy would it be? Concerned about annoying the neighbors for days at a time.

TIA!

 

[Kings over Queens]

I recently looked into a 22kw nat gas unit and couldn't justify the expense. There were some additional installation charges that felt excessive for piping because we need to move it away from the house due to windows. I wasn't warned about full sun exposure being a problem and they aren't much louder than a central air unit, or so I was told.

We ultimately may go forward with it as part of a larger renovation, but for now, on hold.

 

[Texas Proud]

I have a whole house generator and have used it many times, a few multi day outages also...

If I were buying something today I would go with a battery backup that allowed charging with a generator... you can have a day or two on battery and then lug out your portable generator and run it until battery is full and rinse and repeat... either way if you are buying it is expensive...

A company here is offering a battery rental cheap but they will use some of it to sell back to the grid when prices are high... it is an interesting concept... they pay for the battery but then have you pay rent and buy electricity from them... but can use some of it to make more money when prices are high... I do think they have an option for charging it up...

 

[Winemaker]

We live nearby in Washington County. We purchased a 16kW generator years ago and has been the best insurance for not having a major power outage of more than 30 minutes. We did lose power the other day but not long enough for generator to kick on.

 

[Just_Steve]

I recently looked into a 22kw nat gas unit and couldn't justify the expense. There were some additional installation charges that felt excessive for piping because we need to move it away from the house due to windows. I wasn't warned about full sun exposure being a problem and they aren't much louder than a central air unit, or so I was told.

We ultimately may go forward with it as part of a larger renovation, but for now, on hold.

Ok enlighten me.

 

[NW-Bound]

A battery good enough for just 1 day of electric power consumption can be expensive if you live in the Southwest. My record daily consumption was 100kWh/day one year when the day's high hit 120F (49C). Battery prices have come down a lot. I just saw a 14.3 kWh battery for $3,200. You still need inverters.

Once you have a battery, might as well add solar panels to make some money off the sun. Or at least, use the battery to arbitrage between the off-peak and on-peak rates. My local rates will be 4c/kWh and 40c/kWh in the peak of summer. That 36c/kWh price difference is huge.

 

[OnTheBeach]

Whole house generator. We lose power 4-5 times a year because of high winds or heavy snow damaging the power lines. We have lost it from 2 hours to several days and never had an issue. Once my wife and I were traveling for a long weekend and we left our children (aged 18 or 19 at the time) at home with the dogs. There was a heavy rain storm and they lost power for 36 hours - we were relieved to have the generator.

 

[Kings over Queens]

Ok enlighten me.

Enlighten you about what?

The people we consulted for a generator didn't say anything about the generator needing to be installed in a shady area or for it to be kept out of the sun.

 

[Winemaker]

Our gemerator is located in the sun during afternnon hours as well as some of the neighbors. That side of the house has no windows and is far away from deck to prevent carbon monoxide poisoning. That was our only enviromental condititions.

 

[Jerry1]

Our area has recent suffered two multi-day widespread power outages. Fortunately, our house was not affected, but neighborhoods very nearby were. The problem is lots of old trees and a lot more high wind events.

I have been considering a battery backup, but getting one with enough capacity for a several-day outage is prohibitively expensive. So now considering a standby backup generator powered by natural gas.

We have a very small house and do not use much electricity (except during a heat wave for the whole house AC), so probably a 12kw or 14kw model would work.

Has anyone installed one? If so, what are your thoughts?

Can it be installed in an area of full sun? We have a great location to install it, but it would be in full sun for several hours/day. Also, how noisy would it be? Concerned about annoying the neighbors for days at a time.

TIA!

If you're going to get one, make sure it's sized large enough to run the whole house. I might exclude an electric dryer if that made a significant difference in price, but the reality is that you're going to spend a lot of money and you may as well have a fully functional house. As you pointed out, you definitely want to run AC if you're willing to spend the money on a generator.

It can be installed in the sun. It's in a box so the motor itself is in a box so kind of in the shade. Still, even in full sun, it's not going to be anywhere near how hot it is while running. It' made to handle the heat.

As for the noise, they're noisy. Similar to a gas powered lawn mower. You can't be concerned about the neighbors - it's just the reality of running a generator. The one thing you'll have to get comfortable with is the guilt. Come day three when you're in your AC'd house and haven't lost any food, you will feel bad for your neighbors that don't have a generator. Again, that's just something that comes with the territory.

 

[NW-Bound]

... The one thing you'll have to get comfortable with is the guilt. Come day three when you're in your AC'd house and haven't lost any food, you will feel bad for your neighbors that don't have a generator. Again, that's just something that comes with the territory.

The guilt is similar to that of ER, while your peers are still toiling. The difference is that you can avoid conspicuous consumption, while the noise of the generator and the light emitted through your windows cannot be camouflaged.

 

[NewEnglander]

I went through this decision a couple of years ago when we added a 10,500KW solar array to our house. I found that the battery systems just couldn't cut it. They were very expensive and wouldn't run our entire house for more than 12 hours, most were barely 6 hours. Cost was between $6K-25K depending on size and brand.
We heat with a whole house air to air heat-pump. We also have a well pump so we do use considerable electricity. We also lose power 5-6 times per year, just recently we had an 18 hour power outage. We don't have access to natural gas so we went with a 22kw whole house Kohler propane generator. We have a 1000gallon in ground propane tank. It's been great no issues., I'm happy with our decision.
All five of our neighbors also have whole house generators so the noise doesn't bother anyone.

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ You meant 10.5 kW solar array. About the battery, it's all about capacity. If a 25kWh battery does not cut it, then a 100kWh or 200kWh battery may. It's all about money (and space to store it). The remaining problem is that for prolonged outages, you may run out even a 1MWh battery. So, how to replenish it? Now, you need a larger solar array, but it's still no help when it's covered by snow or the sun does not shine. It's tough to beat old technology with a propane tank feeding a combustion engine.

I like renewable energy a lot, and pay for my DIY system without ever claiming tax credits. But to be totally independent of fossil energy and nuclear energy is still a dream right now. What the world can be doing now is to reduce the dependence on the non-renewable energy sources,

 

[NewEnglander]

yes 10.5 kw.

 

[Dash man]

We have a 20kw whole house generator located on the south side of our house in full sun. It’s close to our gas meter and electric meter with the electric panel in our basement just inside the house from it. We’ve had it ten years now and added solar panels three years ago. Everything works great and we’re happy with everything. We’ve never had noise complaints from our neighbors. In fact, half our neighborhood now has whole house generators.

 

[NW-Bound]

yes 10.5 kw.

^^^ I don't know your location, but just for something to do, I look at Burlington, the most populous city in Vermont to see what solar energy one can expect.
The stats show that a 10.5kW solar array will provide a daily average of 22 kWh in December. This is of course the lowest production time of the year, assuming the solar array is tilted 45 deg.
I suspect that 22 kWh falls far short of what is needed to run a heat pump for 24 hrs. Maybe it's OK with gas heating, and for a small house.

PS. Where I am in the Southwest, in December the same array will provide 42kWh/day. That's almost 2x the power one gets in Vermont. In the summer, one gets 60 kWh/day.

 

[Just_Steve]

Enlighten you about what?

The people we consulted for a generator didn't say anything about the generator needing to be installed in a shady area or for it to be kept out of the sun.

I was wondering why? I have never heard of that before so I thought you could shed some light on the reason.

 

[Texas Proud]

Enlighten you about what?

The people we consulted for a generator didn't say anything about the generator needing to be installed in a shady area or for it to be kept out of the sun.

Why would you need to keep it out of the sun? Mine gets direct sunlight maybe 4 to 5 hours but I have never had a problem... it is designed to be out there..

The only problem I had was the lid was hot when it was in direct sun when I was opening it up...

 

[Texas Proud]

Ohhh, on the neighbors...

The one to one side of my house decided to buy his own generator when he heard mine kick in during an outage... he had moved in a month or so before...

The other one does not have the money, but we ran an extension cord to them so they could plug in their refrigerator. I told them if they pop the breaker that is it... not more free power... this was the 7 day outage so they were happy...

I have heard there is one guy who has a generator and puts out a power cord on his porch for neighbors to come and charge their phone etc... I do not know where he is as I do not need to go there...

 

[rk911]

Generator all day long. We've had our Kohler whole-house standby genny with auto-transfer switch for at least 20-years now. It self-tests, under load, for 20-minutes once a week. Longest utility outage we've had was 60+ hours but most are considerably shorter. You're buying insurance...you hope you neber need it but it's there if you do. Best home improvememt we've ever done.

There is some noise but ours is no louder than a gas lawn mower. We have invited our close neighbors to plug in to our outdoor outlets when needed. We're moderately wooded so can't comment on 'full sun' but they're designed to be outdoors 24/7.

 

[Ivo Archer]

I have a generac gas generator on piped in gas that starts automatically during power outages. Since we are at the end of line, it is common on my street. It powers the essentials, lights, fridge, freezer, stove, heater, AC. A few outlets and extra appliances are not powered, but in the winter it is a must. I highly recommend having one if you have more than 1 outage a year and power can be out longer than 4 hours. Nothing worse than melted and refrozen crap in your freezer, or pools of water everywhere.

 

[Tetto]

We are in New England near New London and have a whole house Generac system. 16kw runs the entire house. Everything. I’ve got two, 125 gallon propane tanks. We lose power ALL THE TIME. Sometimes for extended periods. More than 2-3 times we lost it for 5-6 days straight. It was worth every penny- all automatic and total peace of mind. Around $8-9k installed. Love that thing! *sunlight does not affect it at all. It’s in a light color container and propane tanks are white. They do not get hot

 

[ransil]

I would do the natural gas generator, gas is available , plentiful and cheap in your area.

 

[Kings over Queens]

I was wondering why? I have never heard of that before so I thought you could shed some light on the reason.

Why would you need to keep it out of the sun? Mine gets direct sunlight maybe 4 to 5 hours but I have never had a problem... it is designed to be out there..

The only problem I had was the lid was hot when it was in direct sun when I was opening it up...

I was responding to the OP's question about full sun exposure. He asked if full sun was an issue, and I responded that I wasn't told it wasn't an issue. There was no reason to keep it out of the sun or a requirement that it be installed in the shade or away from the sun.

 

[Just_Steve]

I was responding to the OP's question about full sun exposure. He asked if full sun was an issue, and I responded that I wasn't told it wasn't an issue. There was no reason to keep it out of the sun or a requirement that it be installed in the shade or away from the sun.

Missed that in the OP, now I got it and agree why would full sun be a problem.