Whole house battery backup system?

[REWahoo]

The situation you have with the leased batteries sounds like a great idea. I wish they'd offer something like that here!

Base Power, the company behind the leased battery program, went live in TX in May of last year. It was co-founded by Zach Dell, son of Michael Dell. This article is from last May and since it was published the company has come out with larger batteries, reduced or eliminated the installation fee, expanded outside of the Austin area into Dallas, and is piloting a program with our local co-op outside San Antonio.

Sounds like it is a popular idea. I thought I read somewhere they already had something like 2-3,000 installations but can't find it so maybe not. Could be they or a copycat will make something similar available in your area at some point.

 

[REWahoo]

The other thing that I would want is to be able to charge the batteries if they run down with a generator... hook up your small one and run until the battery is full again and you can go a LONG time without grid power...

That option is available for an extra $1K when purchased directly from the company. Unfortunately not available for my co-op pilot program.

Last thing... 10 year cost is under $9K... I will assume the $40 credit will be used so it is a wash... that is cheap IMO..

That's the same way I see it.

FWIW, the program may be available in your area. Link here to check: Base Power

 

[skyking1]

I am right in the middle of batteries, inverter, solar panel these last few weeks. I ordered a 16 Kwh battery Friday and it is shipping tomorrow.
I ordered a 11.4 KW All In One inverter charge controller Friday from a different vendor, shipping tomorrow.
My inverter and battery are high voltage units, with the battery running at 409 volts nominal. It is an LG Generation 3 16H battery with UL 9540 certification, not the lowest bidder from China.
Delivered, that battery is $4450.
I can run two in parallel with my inverter, so we are talking similar capacities.
Your deal sounds intriguing, mostly because the install costs for the inverter and necessary panel work is not cheap.
I'm wiring our new home from the get-go for all this.

 

[RetiredAt55.5]

Sounds like a good deal to me. Back up power w/o the upfront cost of a whole house system.

Yes, plus with a whole house generator system I think there's some arm twisting to get a yearly service maintenance contract, so that possible expense is avoided.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes, plus with a whole house generator system I think there's some arm twisting to get a yearly service maintenance contract, so that possible expense is avoided.

Not much arm twisting... my sister and I did not plan on doing the maintenance ourselves and knew it was a cost we had to factor into our decision.

If this were an option a few years ago I might have gone this route. It sounds interesting. Might recommend this to a friend who was looking for backup.

 

[Surewhitey]

Texas' Only Energy Provider With Home Backup Power | Base Power

Below-market electricity rates and home battery backup from Texas' modern energy provider. Reliable power made affordable.

www.basepowercompany.com

I came across this company the other day and it sounds similar and was interesting with the concept of the 25 kwh battery with the 11kw inverter included and a reasonable installation cost. I think I read of an annual "fee" with reasonable price / kwh too. I didn't get too deep, so I'm sure there is a lot of fine print...

 

[REWahoo]

Texas' Only Energy Provider With Home Backup Power | Base Power

Below-market electricity rates and home battery backup from Texas' modern energy provider. Reliable power made affordable.

www.basepowercompany.com

I came across this company the other day and it sounds similar ...

Base Power is the same company my electric co-op is partnering with for their pilot program.

 

[Surewhitey]

Base Power is the same company my electric co-op is using for their pilot program.

Didn't get to the second page of comments. We have a couple of batteries and a portable generator for the down times & have only used them a few times in the past few years. I like the idea of them, just not for a half day's power battery. The last outage lasted ~4 days, so we'd still need the generator...

We put electronics & fridge on the batteries (~$1k for the 2) and charge them for an hour to top off while running the generator less frequently (less fuel usage overall). Generating from propane only, but the ability to go gasoline is there if needed.

We also use the batteries for camping and travel.

 

[FIYes]

Interesting idea. I can see how needing electricity for water would make this even more attractive. Of course, the big question is how frequently do you have power outages?

I have considered a backup generator…whole house, natural gas. We don’t get power outages that frequently, ,but they are disruptive. The big draw back with the battery backup plan is it only works for a few hours. An outage of a few hours is an annoyance, just don’t open the refrigerator or freezer and wait it out. Our last big power outage was 2 years ago this month. It was seven days. We lost the contents of our refrigerator and freezer. Our house got cold. Honestly, after one day we just got tired of dealing with it. A backup that would have helped for a few hours wouldn’t have meant much, but our water was not affected.

 

[ERD50]

I have not read through all the background info, but I wonder if the motivation for the electric company is not about outages or longer term 'brown-outs' at all? Power companies also have to deal with droops that last just a few seconds. A big shift in load requires gas-fired (not steam) turbines to ramp up, and that is not instantaneous. But batteries/inverters are near instant.

By spreading these batteries out around the area, does this give them the ability to draw enough for 10~20 seconds or so to keep the grid stable? If they could draw 100 Amps at 220 V, that's 22kW (would require a 100A inverter between the battery and the power side), and a 25kWhr battery could supply 22kW (that's a slightly less than 1 'C' factor for the battery).

 

[skyking1]

Keep in mind, an 11.4kw inverter puts out 47.5 amps. It is nowhere near "whole house backup" level.
It can run a critical loads panel. Even a pair would get overwhelmed with a big house AC loads plus everything else.
Just make sure they are not over promised on the capacity.

 

[ERD50]

I have not read through all the background info, but I wonder if the motivation for the electric company is not about outages or longer term 'brown-outs' at all? ....

OK, it does sound like that the short term grid stability is part of their motivation. From the article linked earlier:

Zach Dell (yes, that Dell) wants to address Texas power grid instability with new startup

Zach Dell is looking to blaze his own trail via startup Base Power. With the help of co-founder Justin Lopas, he hopes to rebuild energy in Texas.

www.statesman.com

When the grid is working effectively, the Base Power battery will improve grid stability. When the grid goes down, Base Power will protect customers’ homes from power outages.

 

[Zathras]

…I like the idea of them, just not for a half day's power battery. The last outage lasted ~4 days, so we'd still need the generator...

We put electronics & fridge on the batteries (~$1k for the 2) and charge them for an hour to top off while running the generator less frequently (less fuel usage overall). Generating from propane only, but the ability to go gasoline is there if needed.

We also use the batteries for camping and travel.

Sounds like a great solution for you.
We have a 42kW system.
For us, that will keep us running from (on average) April through October. A 25kWh system would as well as our solar keeps it topped off in the non-winter months.

During the worst of the heating season if there were no sunlight, 6-7 days. We could stretch that to a couple weeks by lowering the temp and not using the stove.

Everything in our house is electric (HVAC, cooking, etc).
We have solar, so it isn’t the same animal as the OP.

 

[pjigar]

My friend told me about this company last night! I believe it is Base power. I looked in to this and like you mentioned, they own the batteries and you pay additional fee overall for this privilege. We live in a deregulated area so additionally, we are locking ourselves with a provider if I decide to use this service (this may not apply to you since you have co-op already). I rejected the idea of switching to battery backup. I would have switched if I owned the system after some lock period.

We live in a rural area with frequent power outages as well. We have settled on the largest portable generator we can find at the time (9.2KW running) hooked up to the main electric panel via interlock switch. We can run almost everything on this setup (5 one ton mini split ACs, a tank water heater, etc.). We do have to take turn using high current appliances (water heater, dryer, oven, microwave, etc.) but that is an acceptable solution for emergencies. Look in to such setup. Any other stationary whole house solution was many times the cost compared to the portable generator. BTW this generator (Generac GP9200E) is gas-powered, push button start, has COsense and low-oil shutoff. I had to hack the generator to add a 220v/50A receptacle since it didn't have any.

PS: My hack of adding 50A outlet:

 

[Texas Proud]

Interesting idea. I can see how needing electricity for water would make this even more attractive. Of course, the big question is how frequently do you have power outages?

I have considered a backup generator…whole house, natural gas. We don’t get power outages that frequently, ,but they are disruptive. The big draw back with the battery backup plan is it only works for a few hours. An outage of a few hours is an annoyance, just don’t open the refrigerator or freezer and wait it out. Our last big power outage was 2 years ago this month. It was seven days. We lost the contents of our refrigerator and freezer. Our house got cold. Honestly, after one day we just got tired of dealing with it. A backup that would have helped for a few hours wouldn’t have meant much, but our water was not affected.

That is one of the reason I would opt to be able to charge the batteries up with a portable generator...

You have the benefit of the battery which switches over instantly... so no 5 or so seconds without electricity while your gen set fires up... plus you can have a small generator on standby for the times you have 7 days (I had the same 7 plus days)... you only need to drag the generator out when the batteries get low and do not have to have a bunch of extension cords... to me a win-win...

I would probably go this way if I did not already have a whole house generator...

 

[REWahoo]

We live in a rural area with frequent power outages as well. We have settled on the largest portable generator we can find at the time (9.2KW running) hooked up to main electric panel via interlock switch. We can run almost everything on this setup (5 one ton mini split ACs, a tank water heater, etc.). We do have to take turn using high current appliances (water heater, dryer, oven, microwave, etc.) but that is an acceptable solution for emergencies. Look in to such setup.

Sounds like a good system for your needs.

As I posted earlier, we aren't sure how much longer we will want to live here and don't want to foot the bill for a big generator (portable or fixed) and the associated cost to get it hooked up to our main panel. I realize the battery system I'm considering is not an ideal solution. Restricting the load on the batteries to critical circuits (well, refrigerators, a single one-ton a/c unit, etc) should enable them to last 24-36 hours if my calculations are correct. I am keeping our portable generator as a "back up to the back up" and can always crank it up and haul out the extension cords if an outage runs beyond the battery capacity.

 

[Cujet]

As an engineer, fabricator, former energy expert and general all around nerd, I really am fascinated by such systems. Here in Jupiter, FL running 'off grid' is a normal thing after hurricanes/tropical storms.

I'd love to have such a technically capable battery system. Period, end of story.

However, it seems there is too much baggage with that one.

I have 7 generators, various inverters, and run off grid regularly. In the end, my diesel setup is the most reliable, powerful and will work for months. We went from Sept to Feb once due to hurricane related outages. 6 full months.

Suggestion: A modestly sized generator that will run critical items non stop, forever.

Also, Jet-A (fuel) lasts forever and runs well in diesel engines with some lubricity additive for safety. That's what I use.

 

[REWahoo]

That is one of the reason I would opt to be able to charge the batteries up with a portable generator...

You have the benefit of the battery which switches over instantly... so no 5 or so seconds without electricity while your gen set fires up... plus you can have a small generator on standby for the times you have 7 days (I had the same 7 plus days)... you only need to drag the generator out when the batteries get low and do not have to have a bunch of extension cords... to me a win-win...

I agree it would be a very nice feature, and called my co-op to see if they offered this on the pilot program since the battery company offered this option on their installations. The answer was no, and that Base Power was discontinuing this option on all their future installations. Could not tell me why.

 

[Fermion]

Tesla has the powershare thing but currently only for the cybertruck. It is a great idea though if other vehicles could get that technology, because a lot of them nowadays have 60kWh to over 100kwh batteries and being able to power your house off of your EV seems like a great backup plan.

 

[pjigar]

Sounds like a good system for your needs.

As I posted earlier, we aren't sure how much longer we will want to live here and don't want to foot the bill for a big generator (portable or fixed) and the associated cost to get it hooked up to our main panel. I realize the battery system I'm considering is not an ideal solution. Restricting the load on the batteries to critical circuits (well, refrigerators, a single one-ton a/c unit, etc) should enable them to last 24-36 hours if my calculations are correct. I am keeping our portable generator as a "back up to the back up" and can always crank it up and haul out the extension cords if an outage runs beyond the battery capacity.

If you don't mind the additional monthly cost then this system (battery backup) is simple and turn key without any maintenance on your part. I say go for it if you not sure how long you are going to stay at your property.

 

[RetMD21]

Interesting idea. I can see how needing electricity for water would make this even more attractive. Of course, the big question is how frequently do you have power outages?

I have considered a backup generator…whole house, natural gas. We don’t get power outages that frequently, ,but they are disruptive. The big draw back with the battery backup plan is it only works for a few hours. An outage of a few hours is an annoyance, just don’t open the refrigerator or freezer and wait it out. Our last big power outage was 2 years ago this month. It was seven days. We lost the contents of our refrigerator and freezer. Our house got cold. Honestly, after one day we just got tired of dealing with it. A backup that would have helped for a few hours wouldn’t have meant much, but our water was not affected.

I would consider 24-36 hours more than just a few but that's just me.

 

[FIYes]

Something earlier in the thread lead me to think the battery backup was only good for about half a day.

I agree that once a power outage gets to 24 hours it is more than an annoyance.

 

[RetMD21]

I think there's something to be said for the portable batteries that people use for short term back up and camping. OP's system might last me for 3 days but I don't have his AC demands.

 

[Texas Proud]

I was talking to my sister who also has a whole house generator... she sent the link to 2 people she knows who cannot get a generator at their house... this would be perfect for them...

But, I did mention that we do pay $400 or so yearly for maintenance.... they come twice a year and replace the wear parts every year no matter how many hours... so paying about $400 for this annually anyhow is about the same...

 

[Surewhitey]

My friend told me about this company last night! I believe it is Base power. I looked in to this and like you mentioned, they own the batteries and you pay additional fee overall for this privilege. We live in a deregulated area so additionally, we are locking ourselves with a provider if I decide to use this service (this may not apply to you since you have co-op already). I rejected the idea of switching to battery backup. I would have switched if I owned the system after some lock period.

We live in a rural area with frequent power outages as well. We have settled on the largest portable generator we can find at the time (9.2KW running) hooked up to the main electric panel via interlock switch. We can run almost everything on this setup (5 one ton mini split ACs, a tank water heater, etc.). We do have to take turn using high current appliances (water heater, dryer, oven, microwave, etc.) but that is an acceptable solution for emergencies. Look in to such setup. Any other stationary whole house solution was many times the cost compared to the portable generator. BTW this generator (Generac GP9200E) is gas-powered, push button start, has COsense and low-oil shutoff. I had to hack the generator to add a 220v/50A receptacle since it didn't have any.

PS: My hack of adding 50A outlet:

This is exactly my setup with the interlock switch. Westinghouse WGen9500DFc. It runs on propane or gas & has remote start fob. The 50 or 30 amp plug options makes it work for running my whole house with 9500 watts running propane.

The backup battery I use for the fridge and camping is 828 whrs & can quickly charge in 70 minutes. VTOMAN Flash Speed 1000. I have a smaller one for electronics.