Why are Some (Most?) Dentists Con Artists?

[SunnyOne]

I realize it's the thing to do in this situation....I guess I have been so upset with them that I even wonder if it would make a difference....after all, this is happening on the dentist's watch and what does it say about how they run their business? ugh. We're talking some big $ money here...a minimum level of customer service should be expected.

 

[OldShooter]

You don't get what you don't ask for.

Another possible option would be if you have a university dental school within driving range. That's who I use. Excellent quality control, no chance they will try to sell me something I don't need, and significantly discounted prices besides.

 

[FindingForward]

You don't get what you don't ask for.

Another possible option would be if you have a university dental school within driving range. That's who I use. Excellent quality control, no chance they will try to sell me something I don't need, and significantly discounted prices besides.

I always read this good advice to try a university dental school. This must work better in other areas. Ours answers the phone, but informs me that there's a 1-2 year+ waiting list - and that's just to get the initial appt! Then there's a much longer wait to schedule any work. Who can wait multiple years for needed dental work?

The reason is they prioritize kids and since lots of families bring all their kids, there are rarely any appointments avail for adults. I've given up.

 

[OldShooter]

Hmm ... Too bad that the scheduling is an issue. Our school is pretty big -- I'll guess at least 50 work stations. They always have business as they are one of the few dental practices that will take the low Medicaid reimbursement rates but I can usually get an appointment within 3 weeks. One time I had a crown come off (not one of theirs) and they saw me same day.

 

[Koolau]

So I've found a reasonably competent dental office to perform the whole bunch of work I need and they've started some of the work for me - but now it looks like I need to start all over again with a new office....and you know why?? craziness.
I still carry dental insurance (federal retiree) and I cannot get the office staff at the dental office to reply to my insurance company with questions they have about my treatment. I have asked several times...get the brush off....so it really makes me not want to give them any further business.
I keep wondering if I should mention this to the dentist at my next appointment. I am without other options except to go to a different dental practice and hope for better.

Why in the world wouldn't you?

My Dentist's staff "profit shares" so they are not interested in limiting my payments to their office. So, I asked my dentist how to lower my costs and he helped me to pay less - more or less against the interests of his staff.

It shouldn't be a problem to at least ask your dentists - especially if you have developed any kind of relationship with him/her. YMMV

 

[ModestNestEgg]

My awesome dentist who I actually trust has mostly retired at something like 85 years of age. His name is on the building still but it's been over a year since the music in the office changed and the front desk staff got swapped out. My favorite hygienist and dental assistants are still there, and so far the young guy who he brought on is seeming pretty solid so hopefully I can keep trusting them, but we will see...

I realize your post is over a year old, but for whoever is reviewing this thread now, I've noticed that this is where the danger zone comes in. A friend had dealt with a dentist like this, who was in the profession to care for the patients first, and the money was secondary. Until he sold the practice and then those priorities swapped. The independent dentist sold the practice to a statewide chain that has about 40-50 locations and does a lot of intense marketing/advertising. Prices went up by at least 50 percent and the recommendations were more aggressive over dental work that needed to be done. My friend went elsewhere and found a situation more like the old dentist.

To the original question, I notice this sort of aggressive upselling of services tends to happen more in the places that are chains and heavily marketed versus independent dentists, but that's just my antidotal experience.

I say all of this realizing there is some irony in criticizing the desire for greater profits in a forum that focuses on financial matters, but at the same time, there has to be the philosophy of putting the patient first and not gouging them on unneeded services.

Another aspect of dentists versus other medical professionals, that is somewhat contradictory to what I just noted, is that dentists are more often independent and not beholden to a hospital system like an MD is. That can result in more personal service and in some cases even better care, but it can also mean that there's no one looking over the dentist's shoulder in terms of business practices. That can be really good or really not.

 

[frank]

I went to a dental university about 15 years ago. had to wait for the initial checkup. I was told that I needed a few fillings and a couple of my front teeth according to their x-ray were not even attached to the bone. They said they would have to figure out how to make a piece that would replace my teeth with a bridge and be supported by my remaining teeth. I couldn't figure out why so much problem when I only wanted to go in for a checkup and cleaning. I never went back. have gotten my teeth cleaned at a local dentist, had one filling and that is it. The only thing I can say is use your best judgment and if it doesn't seem right go somewhere else.

 

[SunnyOne]

Update: I am here, relaxing in Cancun Mexico.

Background: my most recent treatment plan from my dentist reached nearly $12K, AND I live in a low cost area of the US...so.

I did lots of research and then a friend of mine had a bunch of work done in Mexico at a great dental practice, it appears to be one of the most well recognized and expensive practices in the country - it caters to dental tourists who pay in USD. I would put this staff and the practice right up there with the best I've ever encountered -and believe me when I say I've encountered many dental professionals in the US.

I followed her lead. I am here recovering now in warmth and sunshine.

I have nothing but good things to report.

I paid my final bill yesterday. The total ? $3,400. versus $12K.

I flew here on points, I am staying at a $40/night AirBnB with lovely people.

Finally, a victory for me.

 

[SunnyOne]

Another comment. I know people often recommend dental practices affiliated with a university.
I tried that too....one was 3 years booked out and the other wanted to *pre-emptively* replace crowns.
I ended up being treated by neither.

 

[tenant13]

Update: I am here, relaxing in Cancun Mexico.

Background: my most recent treatment plan from my dentist reached nearly $12K, AND I live in a low cost area of the US...so.

I did lots of research and then a friend of mine had a bunch of work done in Mexico at a great dental practice, it appears to be one of the most well recognized and expensive practices in the country - it caters to dental tourists who pay in USD. I would put this staff and the practice right up there with the best I've ever encountered -and believe me when I say I've encountered many dental professionals in the US.

I followed her lead. I am here recovering now in warmth and sunshine.

I have nothing but good things to report.

I paid my final bill yesterday. The total ? $3,400. versus $12K.

I flew here on points, I am staying at a $40/night AirBnB with lovely people.

Finally, a victory for me.

I’m a huge fan of non-US healthcare and frequently use it when I travel. Dentists in Argenntina, Vietnam and Poland were all top notch. My emergency visit in a Thai hospital cost me $60. Doctors in Portugal and Mexico were lovely. I also do all kinds of testing (like blood, Doppler or osteoporosis) in other countries - it cost a fraction of what US facilities charge.

 

[Time2]

As the father of a young dentist, I'd like to soften the con artist label, and give some possible reasons why dental work is costly.
My daughters dental school cost 60k a year, plus she lost 4 years of earnings say $40k (low) a year. So it cost $100,000 a year or $400,000. This is not including her housing for 4 yrs or her bachelors degree required to get into dental school or the Masters to make her resume look better to get into a dental school. So, say it is costing 7% interest, and she wants to clear that debt in 10 years. That payment is $4,644, split into 250 working days that is $186 dollars a day. But she only sees 30%, she works for a corporate dental company and gets 30% of what she bills. She need to bill $619 just to pay her debt. If she sees 10 patients a day that means each patient has to pay $62 just to cover her debt payment, but wait, there's more, because of her higher* tax bracket, she pays about 25% tax, so she really need s to charge each customer $83 just to cover her debt. Then she also has to earn a living, if she charged $233 per patient, she gets 30% or $70, times 10 patients a day is $700 times 250 days is $175,000 a year. The seems reasonable if not low pay for a dentist.
In reality, when she decided to become a dentist she had already graduated and worked 3 years. it took her about 6 yrs because she needed the premed classes and the timing was wrong for the dental schools, thus the Masters while waiting, and the big kicker, mom and dad paid for all of it. When she started only 9% of the class had not taken any loans. The cost to get in, is why dental care costs so much. Even with her fine record and showing how serious she was by going back to school for over 2 years just to prepare to get into a dental school, she was passed over the first round, it took other candidates picking other schools before she got picked in the second round. (I don't know how she made it through that time)
If you want lower dental costs, build more dental schools to provide more graduating dentists and lower the cost of dental school. Just my two cents.

* Higher Tax Bracket, Husband also earns a good income.

PS I was lucky for years, I had an older dentist that didn't keep up with prices. When he got ill he sold the practice, there was an immediate 30% across the board increase in prices.

 

[athena53]

As the father of a young dentist, I'd like to soften the con artist label, and give some possible reasons why dental work is costly.

I get it. Dental school isn't any cheaper than Medical school and the technology keeps changing. Panoramic X-rays, 3-D printers for crowns, electronic records... my oral surgeon did a panoramic X-ray and then displayed it on a giant screen and looked at it from various rotated views. Not cheap but it meant he knew a lot more about what he'd encounter when placing the implant. I'm fortunate that I don't have to choose the cheapest or get practitioners within a limited network.

 

[Qs Laptop]

As the father of a young dentist, I'd like to soften the con artist label, and give some possible reasons why dental work is costly.
My daughters dental school cost 60k a year, plus she

<snip>

I'm the OP and I started this thread because I've encountered several dentists that were selling me costly procedures and surgeries that I DID NOT NEED. That is con artistry, IMO.

If you want lower dental costs, build more dental schools to provide more graduating dentists and lower the cost of dental school.

The cost of dental school is high, but that does not give dentists license to suggest extraneous procedures. (And I'm not implying your daughter is doing this.) But many dentists are.

 

[aja8888]

<snip>

I'm the OP and I started this thread because I've encountered several dentists that were selling me costly procedures and surgeries that I DID NOT NEED. That is con artistry, IMO.




The cost of dental school is high, but that does not give dentists license to suggest extraneous procedures. (And I'm not implying your daughter is doing this.) But many dentists are.

Exactly, I had a dentist try to sell me on a $400 bite guard which no other dentist said I needed in my 81 years on the planet. And, I don't grind my teeth, ever.

 

[Time2]

After my defense of dentistry... when my son went to college he picked a dentist and the first visit she said he had 3 cavities that needed filling, he didn't have any at fillings this point in his life. I told him to wait and have the xrays sent to our regular dentist and make an appointment when he will be home. Our dentist said there was no problem and there has been in the 13 years since then. My dentists comment, "ya these young dentists have a lot of student debt to pay off and they find things that aren't there." :-/

 

[Pluperfect]

Update: I am here, relaxing in Cancun Mexico.

We were in Tucson recently and my boyfriend hadn't had his teeth cleaned in over a decade, so he went across the border to Nogales to have it done--got a same-day appointment and paid $60. The cleaning before that was across the border in South Texas, where they also replaced seven fillings ($25 each), and they're all still fine.

I'm a big fan of Mexican dentistry.

Many years ago I got my teeth cleaned by a dentist who was a family friend, and she said I might need gum grafts. What?? I'd never had any problems with my teeth. So I didn't go back to her and nobody has ever mentioned gum grafts since then.

 

[ransil]

when I was a kid I hated going to the dentist, even the dentist name sounded threatening , still remember it.
10 years in the Navy mostly rookie dentists , still have gum tattoos to remember them.

first outside Dentist after navy was a chain firm , the cleaner was a big chick with a mustache , my memory her cleaning my teeth was telling me they sucked and I will die cause I had bad teeth.

Found another office, small operation the Dentist was a 1 man show , his wife was front desk sometimes but mostly only him in the office , was between a beer store and a nail salon , later a weed store moved in next to him.

He did everything including chatting all the time, always said wife and I had good teeth , I'm guessing his other clients had meth mouth , during the start of covid I broke a tooth on an olive pit , stopped in and he took me as a walk in , couldn't do the root canal but did what he could before and after I had the root canal.