Why aren’t more folks FIRE?

Trust me, I was the #3 guy. Not every person wants that spot.

I surely didn't want to work that hard or have that much professional and recently, personal responsibility and personal liability
I hear you. May be it is because of your personality and life priorities. I know I never wanted get on even the second rung of the corporate ladder! Don't get me wrong: I have gotten promotions, changed jobs for different kind of technical roles, moved up the seniority and pay grade, but I always enjoyed technical work and wanted to keep doing it for life. I never wanted to explore any management ladder or sales ladder oppotunities. I was presented with many such opportunities over the years but politely declined them. I guess knowing your strengths and sticking to them matters for overall happiness. I am still a field soldier and still loving it after 25 years. YMMV.
 
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I hear you. May be it is because of your personality and life priorities. I know I never wanted get on the even the second rung of the corporate ladder!

I agree. I was a wage slave my entire career, never got above VP level and VPs are a dime a dozen in insurance. I was close enough to the C-suite to see how demanding their careers were. It might SOUND glamorous to have a breakfast meeting in London, lunch in Brussels and then fly to Paris but it would get old fast. One executive would help her kid with his homework from wherever she was via fax. (Tech wasn't as advanced as it is now.) I was divorced when my son was 12, the Ex was out of the picture and I wanted to be there for him. I still have plenty.
 
The young wife and I together never made $3-5 million per year during our careers, nor did we inherit anything. And, yet, here we are enjoying the heck out of retirement. Our home is exactly what we always wanted, we buy whatever we want or need and do whatever we want. I'm fairly convinced that having more in the portfolio would not make us any happier.

Something I learned long ago and recommend to everyone is the maxim "Comparison is the thief of joy." If you are happy with your life, it doesn't matter what sort of life others live.
 
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Many people delay their RE because of OMY syndrome. Market volatility like this would make lots people think of maybe delay to next year make sense to have better visibility of future market. Human nature no one wants to deal with uncertainty.
 
Rather than asking why aren't more people FIRE'd, I'm wondering why more FIRE's are not going back to w*rk. Inflation is kicking the $#!+ out of my savings.
 
Rather than asking why aren't more people FIRE'd, I'm wondering why more FIRE's are not going back to w*rk. Inflation is kicking the $#!+ out of my savings.
I'd guess that most FIREDs, at least those here, have enough cushion to weather the storms. (So far, anyway)

Others may have had to goose the portfolio either with more aggressive growth options or higher risk dividend vehicles, or have snipped the spending side a bit. YMMV
 
Rather than asking why aren't more people FIRE'd, I'm wondering why more FIRE's are not going back to w*rk. Inflation is kicking the $#!+ out of my savings.
In my case, I don't have a lot saved, at least in traditional, "safe" places like savings, CDs, etc. Most of mine is invested, so I just have to ride out the peaks and valleys. I probably have about 4 years worth of living expenses in money market accounts, so as they deplete, hopefully there will be a peak or two in there, where I can replenish!

I'm also only 12 days into retirement, and just got my final paycheck on May 9th, so I'm not a good example to use, just yet though.
 
In my case, I don't have a lot saved, at least in traditional, "safe" places like savings, CDs, etc. Most of mine is invested, so I just have to ride out the peaks and valleys. I probably have about 4 years worth of living expenses in money market accounts, so as they deplete, hopefully there will be a peak or two in there, where I can replenish!

I'm also only 12 days into retirement, and just got my final paycheck on May 9th, so I'm not a good example to use, just yet though.
12 days into retirement is something to celebrate!
 
Everyone has two asset accounts, one is called net worth while another is the time you have. We tend to pay more attention to net worth account while ignoring the time account balance keeps going down. When the time account balance goes to zero, the net worth balance is also expired.
I first saw this cartoon on this forum. It helped inspire me to know I had enough. I haven't seen it posted in a while. Here we go:
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I'd guess that most FIREDs, at least those here, have enough cushion to weather the storms. (So far, anyway)

Others may have had to goose the portfolio either with more aggressive growth options or higher risk dividend vehicles, or have snipped the spending side a bit. YMMV
At sometime in retirement SS will start giving that goose in the portfolio, After 7/8 years of retirement, we started SS last month, it covers over 75% of our spending. (we waited until I was 70)
 
Rather than asking why aren't more people FIRE'd, I'm wondering why more FIRE's are not going back to w*rk. Inflation is kicking the $#!+ out of my savings.
One presumes that the work/no-work dilemma is one of lifestyle, meaning and achievement... not a pecuniary matter.

We also have to account for the role of compounding. My investment losses (and more or less recovery) in recent months are enormously greater than whatever I could earn by W2 or 1099 if I hypothetically worked full-time for the rest of my plausible life. The comparison isn't even remotely close. Attempting to replace investment-capital, with human-capital, would be utterly futile. Why even try? The very thought gives me shudders...
 
One presumes that the work/no-work dilemma is one of lifestyle, meaning and achievement... not a pecuniary matter.

We also have to account for the role of compounding. My investment losses (and more or less recovery) in recent months are enormously greater than whatever I could earn by W2 or 1099 if I hypothetically worked full-time for the rest of my plausible life. The comparison isn't even remotely close. Attempting to replace investment-capital, with human-capital, would be utterly futile. Why even try? The very thought gives me shudders...
As someone slowly weaning themselves off of their own human-capital income, I appreciate the perspective. We're not quite there yet, but projecting out 3-5 years, the real question on the human-capital side will soon be, "why bother?" If it's not fun or meaningful, then "why bother?"
 
... I'm never going to be a billionaire; it's just not in my DNA. That's OK! ...
I get a good sense of this everytime the lottery get over $1b and I buy a few tickets for sh!ts and giggles. Then I think about what I would do differently if I won. I can't come up with much. Even if we replaced everything that we have with new and fancy it probably wouldn't add up to more than a couple million. I have trouble thinking that big.
 
I get a good sense of this everytime the lottery get over $1b and I buy a few tickets for sh!ts and giggles. Then I think about what I would do differently if I won. I can't come up with much. Even if we replaced everything that we have with new and fancy it probably wouldn't add up to more than a couple million. I have trouble thinking that big.
I wouldn't act as a consumer. My "consumer needs" are modest. Instead, with that kind of money, I'd be enthused about trying to shape the world around me. Maybe political activism, maybe high-profile donations, maybe a Foundation of some kind. It wouldn't be yachts and jets. It would be some way of gaining and wielding influence.
 
I wouldn't act as a consumer. My "consumer needs" are modest. Instead, with that kind of money, I'd be enthused about trying to shape the world around me. Maybe political activism, maybe high-profile donations, maybe a Foundation of some kind. It wouldn't be yachts and jets. It would be some way of gaining and wielding influence.
RIGHT! Indeed, in other posts, I stated how I always thought I would make a mind boggling amount of money, but that, of course, never happened! I never envisioned really going to work every day, living modestly, and saving so I could FIRE. I thought I would work a few short years, make a fortune, and set up some sort of philanthropic foundation, probably related to preserving land and/or history. I thought, with such a noble cause, that would happen. Realistically, if you have a billion dollars, or several billion, after buying three properties in the $10 million range, which is probably realistic for most billionaires, there’s still a lot left over. And you CAN make a difference! Indeed, one individual whom I worked for, when he passed away (and I don’t think he was anywhere near a billionaire, although 30 years ago or more, it was “said” he and his 3 siblings combined were worth a billion), it stated in his obituary his name and then philanthropist before leading into the article. I thought, that’s EXACTLY how I want to be remembered!

With regards to the lottery, I have never understood what purpose a billion dollars prize serves? Isn’t it better to have 200 $5 million winners? Even after taxes, EVERY one of those individuals could immediately FIRE as long as they lived modestly and probably maintained their current lifestyle.
 
RIGHT! Indeed, in other posts, I stated how I always thought I would make a mind boggling amount of money, but that, of course, never happened! I never envisioned really going to work every day, living modestly, and saving so I could FIRE. I thought I would work a few short years, make a fortune, and set up some sort of philanthropic foundation, probably related to preserving land and/or history. I thought, with such a noble cause, that would happen. Realistically, if you have a billion dollars, or several billion, after buying three properties in the $10 million range, which is probably realistic for most billionaires, there’s still a lot left over. And you CAN make a difference! Indeed, one individual whom I worked for, when he passed away (and I don’t think he was anywhere near a billionaire, although 30 years ago or more, it was “said” he and his 3 siblings combined were worth a billion), it stated in his obituary his name and then philanthropist before leading into the article. I thought, that’s EXACTLY how I want to be remembered!
I can't imagine going through life with such a brutal, devastating disappointment.
 
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Everyone has two asset accounts, one is called net worth while another is the time you have. We tend to pay more attention to net worth account while ignoring the time account balance keeps going down. When the time account balance goes to zero, the net worth balance is also expired.
Not really.
The net worth balance then goes to the designated beneficiaries...
 
Times change, inflation happens, A couple starting out now is likely to earn well over $3M. Yes, I know you were talking one person. Just pointing out, myself and my older friends are stuck thinking in old wages and prices. I single person today that earns $100k for 35 years equals $3.5M. It would not be unknown for a person to graduate at 22, start at $60k make $100k by the time they are 30 years old and continue their career for 30 more years getting inflation and merit raises and earn $3-$5M.
You need to factor in INFLATION over 30-40 years...
 
I post this because, admittedly, in a recent post, I lamented that why aren’t I, and most others with a decent education, basically bonkers, over the top rich, through incredible extremely high paying corporate jobs (ideally laid back, WFH, too). But I wanted to address something I touched upon and why I’m FIRE, or at least on that track, even if I don’t retire until about age 57. I’m FIRE because I’m of more modest income and learned early on the only way to have anything is to invest aggressively, and save a lot. I saved because nothing in my more modest income realm of affordability interested me, and so I didn’t do any over the top spending. Nice homes on lots of land, impressive places overlooking the water, artwork collected by the ultra rich, antique and rare automobiles are all of interest, but way off the radar screen. High end new mass produced junk for the masses never interested me (think gated communities, luxury automobiles, etc) and so I’ve lived modestly, and very comfortably too, I might add. TV with a modest size screen works fine, the house is climate controlled (heat and A/C), I actually enjoy doing the lawn and landscaping, so don’t hire out for that, low end 4 WD vehicles (mine has crank windows and is stick shift) are paid for.

So, where does it go if you aren’t FIRE? When you are starting out it’s rough, it was for me, it is for others, and I pity those trying to purchase a house for the first time in today’s market. (And why it has to be rough starting out is a sore point with me—start the young out with extremely high paying jobs so they can buy houses and stimulate the economy). But, once you have been working for a few decades and hopefully didn’t get scammed by the overpriced cost of child care in this country and/or crater to Junior’s pleas that he needs that expensive college degree—or a degree at all—and your help paying for it—where does it all go? (And another aside, colleges are so expensive because they sell a product that is more of a lifestyle at the higher end and require Junior to pay for it, as well as the parents, grandparents, and that uncle you haven’t spoken to in over 15 years. If they had less bells and whistles, fewer administrators, and based on what Junior alone could pay for, the cost would be far more modest).

But back to the original topic. If you have a decent college degree and a spouse does as well, you both are going to earn the high 5 figures or crack 6 figures in income. In my case, and probably most others who didn’t trade up houses over the years, a monthly payment might be 2k a month, taxes and insurance 10 -12 k, utilities and other expenses put you at maybe 20k. Then you have groceries, entertainment, travel/vacations, etc, but having said that, even after accounting for income taxes, there’s still quite a bit left over.

So, where does it all go? I’m surprised to see some folks even my age living on the edge and worrying about can I ever retire?

And, I’ll add a little story. The most TOXIC co worker my wife ever had was a woman who was handed money from her parents. Used that, and a lot more, to go on vacation all the time, when back immediately got on the work computer to plan the next big escape. I had to listen to why don’t we do this, why don’t we do that, etc. Fortunately, she left for another job within a year, and that ended.

And my wife’s sister and her husband are of modest means (nurse and computers), live in a townhouse, and are traveling to Europe the second time in a year soon and spent a week in Florida a few weeks ago (I cannot recall a vacation of more than 3 or 4 days in a long time). Perhaps this is where it all goes to.

I put the maximum towards retirement, thereby decreasing my available income and still a lot left over. Maybe I’m boring…
Very early in my career, I looked at the kinds of cars and vacations my co-workers had, and thought I was mismanaging my money. Why do I have such a modest house and car and rarely go on vacation? And then I realized - they weren't saving like I was. I saved 25-30% of every paycheck I ever made. After the first time I didn't pay off my credit card balance and saw the usurious interest, I never used my credit card for something I couldn't pay off at the end of the month. And after my first car (which I bought on time to establish credit and paid off after one year), I always paid cash for my cars. The only debt I carried was my mortgage and student loans.

It helped a LOT that I didn't have children, but it also made it imperative that I save and save to take care of myself in my old age.

I thank my dear old Dad for instilling the save and LBYM mentality!
 
When jobs are easy with lots of vacation time, more money is not a bad thing, so why not. Most of my academic friends plan to retire at around 70. They spend a lot of years to earn their status, they want to milk the cows as long as possible.
 
But what is my aim, is to be as frugal as possible, for as long as possible, to leave this earth with - sorry, I can't help phrasing it thusly - as much as possible.

I wouldn't act as a consumer. My "consumer needs" are modest. Instead, with that kind of money, I'd be enthused about trying to shape the world around me. Maybe political activism, maybe high-profile donations, maybe a Foundation of some kind. It wouldn't be yachts and jets. It would be some way of gaining and wielding influence.

How much money would it take to pull you away from the current prime directive of never withdrawing from your accounts and dying as rich as possible to spending to gain and wield influence?
 
Why aren’t more folks FIRE?

Here, in a nutshell, by way of anecdote, is my answer to OP's question. I purchased something fairly expensive at Lowe's last week, and I was offered some discounts and cash back if I signed up for the Lowe's credit card. The savings made it worth the hassle of signing up, IMHO, so I went ahead and got the card. Here are the three everyday options that cardholders can select from at the point of sale as your "MyLowe's Rewards":
  • 5% Off Your MyLowe’s Rewards Credit Card Purchase
  • No Interest if Paid in Full within 6 Months
  • 84 Fixed Monthly Payments at 9.99% APR
I told the cashier I wanted the 5% discount on the purchase price, and then I asked her if that was what most people chose. She said "Oh no, almost everyone chooses the other ones. Mostly the last one. Nobody wants to pay for the whole thing upfront!"

IMHO, there is probably a strong, direct correlation between FIRE interest/capability/mindset and choosing the "5% Off" option. Most people just do not have the LBYM mindset that would allow them to save $100 on the spot when purchasing, say, a $2,000 refrigerator. They don't have the current cash flow (or credit limit headroom) needed to facilitate these kinds of purchases. And that's because their mindset is simply to spend every dollar they make, month after month, year after year.
 
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