Women who haven't Saved - Can you help?

I'm going to throw a rock in the pond here. OP said that these women do not have saving and have income levels that make it difficult to save. Nowhere did he say that they were stupid or lacked a firm grasp of the obvious. IMO many of the posts here verge on being insulting.

Our financial situations are often due to conditions beyond our control. Good or bad luck is probably the biggest thing. Medical debt is the biggest factor nationally IIRC. SAHM and a divorce might be a factor, as might a past need to leave a job to provide care for a spouse or parent. A job layoff due to a plant closing, .. and so on.

Give 'em a break folks. Don't assume that they are stupid or do not have a firm grasp of the obvious.
 
I'm going to throw a rock in the pond here. OP said that these women do not have saving and have income levels that make it difficult to save. Nowhere did he say that they were stupid or lacked a firm grasp of the obvious. IMO many of the posts here verge on being insulting.

Our financial situations are often due to conditions beyond our control. Good or bad luck is probably the biggest thing. Medical debt is the biggest factor nationally IIRC. SAHM and a divorce might be a factor, as might a past need to leave a job to provide care for a spouse or parent. A job layoff due to a plant closing, .. and so on.

Give 'em a break folks. Don't assume that they are stupid or do not have a firm grasp of the obvious.
True.

But the reality here is that the real problem here is not money but time. Just like the 85 year old with $6M who'll never be able to spend it all, the reverse is also true. By age 60 there just is not enough time for any sort of solution. Setting aside $50 a week? Forget it. These strategies should have been put in place 40 long years ago. Sorry to say, the reality is "you're screwed", keep working. Hard luck, bad luck, poor planning, not everyone is able to retire, early or otherwise.
 
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True.

But the reality here is that the real problem here is not money but time. Just like the 85 year old who'll never be able to spend it all, the reverse is also true. By age 60 there just is not enough time for any sort of solution. Setting aside $50 a week? Forget it. These strategies should have been put in place 40 long years ago. Sorry to say, the reality is "you're screwed", keep working.
True also, but for example suggesting that they might be wasting money on hair and nails is IMO insulting. If they have made that decision they have done it full well realizing that it is detrimental to their financial status. They don't need that input from someone who knows nothing about them or their situation. People here mean well, but some of these posts IMO unconsciously verge on the insulting.
 
True also, but for example suggesting that they might be wasting money on hair and nails is IMO insulting. If they have made that decision they have done it full well realizing that it is detrimental to their financial status. They don't need that input from someone who knows nothing about them or their situation. People here mean well, but some of these posts IMO unconsciously verge on the insulting.
Agree with your point except many, many people DO make spending decisions not giving even a second thought to how it affects their long term financial situation.
 
I'm convinced financial illiteracy is part of the problem and these people are prey to "friends" who don't really help them in any sense. It's probably worse for single women, especially of a certain age. who may have been raised to be more submissive to others and who were punished for talking back. The ailments that plague this demographic are real, too, which doesn't help finances or job prospects.

I'm presently helping a friend who is close to these circumstances - 65 with no savings - but fortunately has a 401k and an IRA from a previous job which total maybe $130-140k. She is 2 years from FRA and because of physical infirmities she is counting the days until she can collect that SS instead of waiting to get more later. OTOH for her demographic a life expectancy of 82 may not be in the cards so taking earlier nets her more anyway.

Lower socio-economic class is hard to climb out of. She has never been able to afford living in a middle-class neighborhood as most of us do and there are costs associated with that as well as a mental toll. It's not bad where she is now but IMO she can't really afford where she lives now. But she has terrific neighbors and no worries for safely, etc. which is priceless. My first recommendation was get a roommate but she won't consider it. From what she sees, her married friends are generally not better off because the husbands are often bums who are more of a drag than a help. One recently divorced friend has taken in a nephew because her sister's situation is worse so the friend is going to trailer living post-divorce. Poor education, not raised by anyone with financial smarts, etc. and it proliferates.

DD has a plan for her. When she retires, move to a lower COL area (eg western Ohio near DD) where apartments are less and continue to work at Walmart in retirement as much as possible though part time (physical limitations probably preclude full time but fortunately it will be much nicer store clientele there) and spend down her assets - hopefully slowly - until she qualifies for even cheaper senior housing and hope social security will be enough.
 
If they do live in New Haven, CT (or other HCOL areas), find a less expensive area to live in. This doesn’t mean moving cross country (unless maybe they have family or social connections there), but just a more reasonable cost of living area.

If it is possible and safe, move closer to work and walk rather than maintain a car.
It's not as easy as just moving somewhere else. The "living wage" in Connecticut for two people living together and both working is $16.06/hr. The "minimum wage" is $15.69/hr. Many states have lower costs of living but also a much lower minimum wage. Take, for example, Lee County, Mississippi, which surrounds Tupelo. Living wage for the same two people is $13.41/hr. (17% lower than CT) But the minimum wage is only $7.25 (54% lower than CT).
 
Women, especially older women, have been at a financial disadvantage for years. By far, they form the largest single group of financially disadvantaged seniors.

Many have few working years due to child rearing. Most were paid less than their male counterparts for the same work. Many were never able to get into higher paying occupations or decent workplace pensions. They have far lower pensions, if indeed they even have one.

Not entirely their fault. As above it is in no way an indication of smarts, work ethic, or financially disadvantaged, or an indication that they are all spendthrifts.

It is changing, but not necessarily for those one or two generations behind the current one.

Nor are they the only ones who can save or who can avoid debt. When you are low income earners, male or female, in a highly inflationary world it is hard to save a dime, let alone avoid debt. Low wage jobs have never kept up with inflation.
 
OP - this is from the Portland area. Not sure if it is still active.
Donna Beegle discusses how to communicate with people who are experiencing poverty.
I worked in social services for many years and had the opportunity to have Donna come to our county for several training sessions. She was great and discusses the language differences for different income socio economic status.

Many posts here are suggesting that these people go from 0 to 60 which almost always fails. I could go on but I won’t.
 
Make sure they know that if they take SS at 62 there is an earnings limit. A relative ended up owing a lot of taxes they couldn't pay because they kept working after filing at 62.
 
True also, but for example suggesting that they might be wasting money on hair and nails is IMO insulting. If they have made that decision they have done it full well realizing that it is detrimental to their financial status. They don't need that input from someone who knows nothing about them or their situation. People here mean well, but some of these posts IMO unconsciously verge on the insulting.
IIRC this was a thread in which this group (aka the retirement experts) was asked what they would suggest a person tell people they apparently know to help them save money for retirement. I'd never go into a salon and tell a woman she was wasting her money on a manicure.

IOW I'd never offer such advice to someone that wasn't ostensibly asking for it (second hand in this thread.)
Hi,
I'm working with some women who have not saved for retirement. With 2 jobs most of them don't make enough to save. If you could suggest 3 things for these women to do, what would those 3 things be? (Most are around 60, have debts, and very small savings) Any thoughts or help is appreciated.
Sometimes what would otherwise be considered an insult (like telling your best friend they have halitosis) is really trying to help.
 
I'm going to throw a rock in the pond here. OP said that these women do not have saving and have income levels that make it difficult to save. Nowhere did he say that they were stupid or lacked a firm grasp of the obvious. IMO many of the posts here verge on being insulting.

Our financial situations are often due to conditions beyond our control. Good or bad luck is probably the biggest thing. Medical debt is the biggest factor nationally IIRC. SAHM and a divorce might be a factor, as might a past need to leave a job to provide care for a spouse or parent. A job layoff due to a plant closing, .. and so on.

Give 'em a break folks. Don't assume that they are stupid or do not have a firm grasp of the obvious.
Perhaps, but at the same time, I have a 70-yo frugal friend (sometimes cheap) who is retired and lives on SS and a rental that produces ~$11k of rental income. And my dear departed grandmother lived on SS alone in a senior subsidized housing apartment building. We don't know enough about the situations of the women that the OP is seeking to help but spending above means unnecessarily isn't an outrageous presumption since literally millions of American seniors are in that boat.
 
Save something every week, start with 10 or 20 dollars. And make the savings the priority. They'll adjust their budget/spending out of necessity, if they really want to save.

When I got my 1st job after college, I went to the bank and got them to take $50 from my checking every Monday and put it in my savings account. When I added my deposit to my check register, I added the auto withdrawal at the same time...never missed it in my checking account. I increased it in $25 increments as I made more. I think it was $150/wk when I retired, and I maintained a $10k+ balance for many years, and siphoned off the top to fund my brokerage account when it got to a certain point.
 
not having read the other responses I would say plan to keep working as long as possible. Roomate situation and go ahead and look into sr subsidizzed apartments and get on the often yearslong waitlist. Consider looking into caregiving/adult sitting on the side for cash money in addition to (not instead of) a w2 job. And record every expense for a month atleast and see where the money goes. Fast food adds up fast and declines health even faster
 
Everyone thank you for your replies. I should say she has no CC debt, is getting married soon (roommate) and has a socialwork job (they don't pay much). She lives in a mobile home and after reviewing her budget - she's not eating out or getting her nails done.

I will send her some of these suggestions. Thank you very much!
Artiscara
 
The other lady had a bad divorce and her husband left her with 3 toddlers (1,3,5) and took all the cash when they sold their home and moved to the Philippines. She's worked owning her own business, raised the kids but didn't save much.

Thank you again!
 
One thing that both should check into is the Retirement Savers Tax Credit. It is akin to an employer match on a 401k but by the US government for lower income taxpayers who save for retirement.

It's a non-refundable tax credit. For DS we move money from his brokerage account to his Roth calibrated so he gets all of his withholdings refunded to him.

It's basically free money courtesy of the US government.

 
One thing that both should check into is the Retirement Savers Tax Credit. It is akin to an employer match on a 401k but by the US government for lower income taxpayers who save for retirement.

It's a non-refundable tax credit. For DS we move money from his brokerage account to his Roth calibrated so he gets all of his withholdings refunded to him.

It's basically free money courtesy of the US government.

Thanks! My daughter will be able to take advantage of this credit. :cool:
 
One thing that both should check into is the Retirement Savers Tax Credit. It is akin to an employer match on a 401k but by the US government for lower income taxpayers who save for retirement.

It's a non-refundable tax credit. For DS we move money from his brokerage account to his Roth calibrated so he gets all of his withholdings refunded to him.

It's basically free money courtesy of the US government.

You may need to convince your lady friend(s) that they can come up with enough money to place in the appropriate vehicle.

By the way, the STAR FUND at Vanguard only requires $1000 to open. I'm sure there are other options for relatively small contributions.
 
I think some have insinuated it but IMO there is nothing you can do...

They have been living this way their whole life (maybe) and do not see any advantage in saving... why do you think they will change now...

PLUS, how much do you think they can save? Even at $50 a month for 10 years that is $6K plus earnings... that will not even last a year...

They might have to work until they die... many people do.. we all see old people at fast food, Walmart etc...


This.

Even if they could somehow manage to scrimp and save $200 a month what does that do for them at this point and at what cost to the good years they have left?

I've been at the bottom of the food chain. The feeling of helplessness can be overwhelming but I'm assuming it's completely different when your young and can work your way out of it vs when you're in your 60's. Unless any of them are willing to group up and do the 'Golden Girls' thing I suggest they keep spending on the little frivilous whatevers that make their lives bearable. Having nothing and being told to live even poorer when there is basically no way to climb out of the hole will probably just make them feel worse than they already do.

Just talking about it brings back that pit in my stomache and fear I could wake up and be right back in that suffocating place. And at this point of my life I wouldn't have the energy or will to claw back. I'd simply want the little things like a decent evening meal, a warm small bedroom and good tv show to help me make it to the next day.


Just please be careful trying to help. Unless you've been there, you have no idea how bad you can rock the world of someone who has little by suggesting they tighten their belt.
 
This.

Even if they could somehow manage to scrimp and save $200 a month what does that do for them at this point and at what cost to the good years they have left?

I've been at the bottom of the food chain. The feeling of helplessness can be overwhelming but I'm assuming it's completely different when your young and can work your way out of it vs when you're in your 60's. Unless any of them are willing to group up and do the 'Golden Girls' thing I suggest they keep spending on the little frivilous whatevers that make their lives bearable. Having nothing and being told to live even poorer when there is basically no way to climb out of the hole will probably just make them feel worse than they already do.

Just talking about it brings back that pit in my stomache and fear I could wake up and be right back in that suffocating place. And at this point of my life I wouldn't have the energy or will to claw back. I'd simply want the little things like a decent evening meal, a warm small bedroom and good tv show to help me make it to the next day.


Just please be careful trying to help. Unless you've been there, you have no idea how bad you can rock the world of someone who has little by suggesting they tighten their belt.
If you don't think you can help yourself then you're right. You can't. You're done before you start.

But just putting together an emergency fund is a step in the right direction and could make a huge difference when it hits the fan.
 
By the way, the STAR FUND at Vanguard only requires $1000 to open. I'm sure there are other options for relatively small contributions.
STAR fund is how I started my investing career when $1000 felt like an impossible amount to come up with.
 
STAR fund is how I started my investing career when $1000 felt like an impossible amount to come up with.
Nowadays, we have ETFs that you can buy for any amount ($50?) when using market orders.
(Limit orders require whole shares, at Vanguard anyway...)
 
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STAR fund is how I started my investing career when $1000 felt like an impossible amount to come up with.
Yeah, that's how we started the kids Roths for them. They're well over $100K now!
 
See if they can save %1 to start.
If they say they can't, take them at their word and move on. Decades long habits are hard to break. Plan on doubling savings rate until 15% or when it hurts too much.

Also, if they are still working, see if they can enroll in automatic withdrawals, especially to a retirement account. No taxes will reduce the hit and it is taken out before it gets into their spending checking account.
 
I went back and read the OP and a few posts after that and nowhere do I see anything where these people have asked for help in improving their financial situation.

So why are we going on and on about this issue?
 
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