Your Savings Are Worthless If You Don't Do This In Retirement

[Markola]

Why do Die Broke advocates never seem to understand that, for many retirees, having too much money, watching it compound, dying rich, then leaving it to someone or some cause they care about, gives a feeling of security, control, optionality, accomplishment, or other intangible good feelings? It seems sound to me compared to hell-bent consumption.

I’d say this guy should do what he wants and leave others alone, except he needs to generate controversy so that his YouTube channel gets views and feeds the algorithm.

 

[disneysteve]

Why do Die Broke advocates never seem to understand that, for many retirees, having too much money, watching it compound, dying rich, then leaving it to someone or some cause they care about, gives a feeling of security, control, optionality, accomplishment, or other intangible good feelings? It seems sound to me compared to hell-bent consumption.

I’d say this guy should do what he wants and leave others alone, except he needs to generate controversy so that his YouTube channel gets views and feeds the algorithm.

I'm with you. I haven't read the book but I really don't see the appeal of "die broke". I'm not Scrooge McDuck diving into my vault of riches but I do get a great deal of comfort and a feeling of security from looking at our portfolio balance. I know that we have enough to provide for us for the rest of our lives and, most likely, leave behind a good amount for our daughter and some select charities. We could surely spend more, and we've been incrementally doing that in ways that are meaningful to us and add to our enjoyment of life, but we're not going to spend just for the sake of spending.

 

[RetiredHappy]

IIRC, the highest ending total follows the 1982 beginning year retiree vs just a never ending bull market.

What do you mean?

 

[Diogenes]

Why do Die Broke advocates never seem to understand that, for many retirees, having too much money, watching it compound, dying rich, then leaving it to someone or some cause they care about, gives a feeling of security, control, optionality, accomplishment, or other intangible good feelings? It seems sound to me compared to hell-bent consumption.

One supposes that "die broke" isn't intended literally, but that instead, one seeks to maximize utility of money while one is still living, vs. the accumulation of money as a scorecard or record of righteousness to be evaluated after one's death.

Even so, I wish that a smattering of grace were to be given to those of us, who really do relish the idea of ever-increasing net worth. We find joy from watching the numbers creep upward over the years, not a gloating or a boasting or even some feeling that we are somehow more righteous... but a sense of accomplishment. I've done many foul or foolish things in my life. Wealth-building doesn't atone for them. But if my work as an engineer amounted to little or nothing, if my "scholarly" publications are crap, well then, at least there is some archival residue from it all... the money saved, invested and hopefully growing.

 

[FlaGator]

One supposes that "die broke" isn't intended literally, but that instead, one seeks to maximize utility of money while one is still living, vs. the accumulation of money as a scorecard or record of righteousness to be evaluated after one's death.

Even so, I wish that a smattering of grace were to be given to those of us, who really do relish the idea of ever-increasing net worth. We find joy from watching the numbers creep upward over the years, not a gloating or a boasting or even some feeling that we are somehow more righteous... but a sense of accomplishment. I've done many foul or foolish things in my life. Wealth-building doesn't atone for them. But if my work as an engineer amounted to little or nothing, if my "scholarly" publications are crap, well then, at least there is some archival residue from it all... the money saved, invested and hopefully growing.

The bolded part for me.

It's ongoing confirmation that, in the main, I didn't squander the professional success I was blessed with, that I've been a reasonably good steward of those earnings, and my kids will be better off than they would be otherwise.

 

[Gumby]

I just read that CPI is 3.8%. It would be nice if Firecalc let you put in the most recent CPI data. If/when inflation hits 4% I’d like to add that to my calculations.

You can specify any inflation rate you want. Under the spending model tab.

 

[Lorenzo]

We could surely spend more, and we've been incrementally doing that in ways that are meaningful to us and add to our enjoyment of life, but we're not going to spend just for the sake of spending.

Who “spends just for the sake of spending”? This phrase is often repeated, as though others are doing that, but I believe virtually nobody does that. I believe what most people who find they have over-saved a bit do is what you are doing.

 

[COcheesehead]

I am going to propose that we change “over saved” to “very comfortable”.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Who “spends just for the sake of spending”? This phrase is often repeated, as though others are doing that, but I believe virtually nobody does that. I believe what most people who find they have over-saved a bit do is what you are doing.

I think that perhaps most Americans do. After all that is how a consumer economy works. Unfortunately not all can afford to but still do.

 

[TheWizard]

I think that perhaps most Americans do. After all that is how a consumer economy works. Unfortunately not all can afford to but still do.

Yes, I think there are actually people out there who do "shopping" as a sort of hobby...

 

[livingalmostlarge]

i think that the memory bank is better than money in the bank

 

[old medic]

We are looser with spending now and not touching our nest egg yet.

Yes, I think there are actually people out there who do "shopping" as a sort of hobby...

So when did you meet my wife?
We are getting ready for the DD baby shower and she was planning on doing a meat and cheese tray.
Ham and turkey was $6-8/Lb.... she buys frozen chunks of both for like $15 at scratch and dent store, and I get to slice it.... now we have 9Lbs of Ham and 7 of turkey lunch meat.....

 

[Sunset]

I am going to propose that we change “over saved” to “very comfortable”.

That is a better term.

Just this morning I was thinking, it feels good to know for most issues that come up in life, I have enough $$ to deal with it in a good way.

 

[disneysteve]

Who “spends just for the sake of spending”?

I think many many people do. They don't think about their spending. They don't consider whether or not they can afford the purchase or whether or not the purchase will enhance their lives. Many people also spend to create or maintain an image that they wish to portray, even if it doesn't bring them joy.

I'm a physician, a typical high-earning professional, but I never bought into the "physician lifestyle". So much so that a prominent national physicians' financial magazine did a feature article on me and my family years ago. The fact that we lived below our means, shopped at thrift stores, cooked most meals at home, and saved a significant percentage of income was so out of the ordinary as to warrant a multi-page article. Most of my peers spent because they could, just for the sake of spending. I was able to retire at 59, 2 years ago, while many of them are still hard at work in their late 60s and 70s and even into their 80s.

 

[kgtest]

Grandma left this earth with like $800 (Slightly less as LTC billed for that final month she was not alive and using the facility in error). She nailed it.

Funeral cremation was paid ahead of time.

She almost had no idea where or what kind of money she actually had the past five years of her life, constantly causing a fuss looking for a wallet she lost.

She lived on nothing more than subsidized SS rent for the better part of 28 years.

The last decade of her life from like 82ish to 92ish she did not drive.


I don't think I will be able to take mine with, but I think we will leave behind more than 0.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Just this morning I was thinking, it feels good to know for most issues that come up in life, I have enough $$ to deal with it in a good way.

For me, this is by far the best part of financial independance.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Grandma left this earth with like $800 (Slightly less as LTC billed for that final month she was not alive and using the facility in error). She nailed it.

I would not want to cut it that closely. If my mental capacity was adequate to understand the situation, cutting it that close would cause me much stress in my final years. There is nobody my wife and I could count on for financial help if we needed it.

 

[COcheesehead]

Grandma left this earth with like $800 (Slightly less as LTC billed for that final month she was not alive and using the facility in error). She nailed it.

Funeral cremation was paid ahead of time.

She almost had no idea where or what kind of money she actually had the past five years of her life, constantly causing a fuss looking for a wallet she lost.

She lived on nothing more than subsidized SS rent for the better part of 28 years.

The last decade of her life from like 82ish to 92ish she did not drive.


I don't think I will be able to take mine with, but I think we will leave behind more than 0.

My Dad had a very happy life living on SS and a small union pension. He died with $40,000 to his name.
The last 90 days of his living on earth though almost took all his assets. The family had to sell off some stuff just in case.

 

[RetiredHappy]

The interesting thing is that we bought our current home in Jan 2021 and it is not a significant percentage of our net worth. Our friends bought their home at the same time and their house is more than 50% of their net worth and their home is more expensive than ours and they are sweating over that they will need to sell their home when they run out out of money.

We love our home but many of our friends thought that it is all that we could afford, because even at $1M it is a very modest home in our community. We don't need flashy stuff as we prefer to have a nice bank account instead.

 

[disneysteve]

The interesting thing is that we bought our current home in Jan 2021 and it is not a significant percentage of our net worth. Our friends bought their home at the same time and their house is more than 50% of their net worth and their home is more expensive than ours and they are sweating over when they will need to sell their home when they run out out of money.

We love our home but many of our friends thought that it is all that we could afford, because even at $1M it is a very modest home in our community. We don't need flashy stuff as we prefer to have a nice bank account instead.

People love to assume that what you have is what you can afford, because that's how most people operate. They spend the most they can handle whether it's a car, a house, clothing, or whatever.

I once had a patient ask me why I didn't have a nicer car. I had a Toyota Camry so it's not like I was driving a junker. In his mind, I must not be doing great as a doctor if all I could afford was a Camry. Meanwhile, my partner was (still is) leasing a shiny new BMW every 2 years and his lease payments were more than our mortgage payment. I'm 4 years younger and retired 2 years ago. He's 4 years older and will probably work until he dies because he hasn't prepared for retirement.

 

[GenXguy]

I once had a patient ask me why I didn't have a nicer car. I had a Toyota Camry so it's not like I was driving a junker.

Yeah, and that was a pretty rude thing to ask, anyone.

 

[dunkelblau]

Yes, I think there are actually people out there who do "shopping" as a sort of hobby...

I've been shopping every day for four decades now, my splurge is penny stocks. Compared to the junk I can haul home from the mall, most of my purchases have better resale value, and a few appreciate enough to bring me joy that I can't get from buying stuff. Maybe for most people earning it is the unpleasant necessity while spending it is the fun part, but for some of us the reverse is true.

 

[old medic]

Meanwhile, my partner was (still is) leasing a shiny new BMW every 2 years

I had several coworkers that were always upgrading vehicles... one partner literally would trade in her new car when the tires needed replacing and get another new one.
We bought a basic 1984 Toyota pickup in 85 with 37K miles on it. By 2003 I was still driving it with over 300K on it. It looked like a rolling wreck by that point. Had been rolled it on its side off roading... TWICE... Grill missing from hitting a deer... each dent had a story...
Several folks at work actually wanted to help me buy a replacement...
Then one day the transmission got stuck it 3rd gear... So I put it in low range and started out, shifted to high range and off we go.... Drove it for another week to work. Paid $7900 for it and sold it for $750..... I feel I got my moneys worth...

Edit.... before someone asks... reversing was fun... put the transfer case in neutral and push....

 

[Lorenzo]

I think many many people do. They don't think about their spending. They don't consider whether or not they can afford the purchase or whether or not the purchase will enhance their lives. Many people also spend to create or maintain an image that they wish to portray, even if it doesn't bring them joy.

I'm a physician, a typical high-earning professional, but I never bought into the "physician lifestyle". So much so that a prominent national physicians' financial magazine did a feature article on me and my family years ago. The fact that we lived below our means, shopped at thrift stores, cooked most meals at home, and saved a significant percentage of income was so out of the ordinary as to warrant a multi-page article. Most of my peers spent because they could, just for the sake of spending. I was able to retire at 59, 2 years ago, while many of them are still hard at work in their late 60s and 70s and even into their 80s.

Two things. First, my comment was limited to supposedly spending “just for the sake of spending” down one’s pile in retirement. My presumption is the people we’re talking about can more than afford it. The discussion here might be broader, but my comment was intended as more limited.

The second thing is that I believe the person you refer to who spends to maintain or create an image for others, if not truly getting “joy” out of it, does get something out of it. I’m not even an amateur psychologist and can’t articulate what it is very well, but I do believe that we receive some sort of psychological reward for everything we do. I may believe maintaining an image is silly and a total waste, but just because I myself wouldn’t get anything out of it doesn’t mean someone else wouldn’t. Perhaps this is more of a semantic argument when I am dismissive of the idea that some people out there spend “just for the sake of spending.”

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, and that was a pretty rude thing to ask, anyone.

I grant you that was rude.

I had a doctor who spent (literally) 15 minutes (of my time in his office) berating me for wanting to deal with more than one "issue." during my visit. Now THAT was rude.