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40 year military guy in midlife crisis dreaming of early retirement or change of pace
Old 05-23-2014, 03:47 PM   #1
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40 year military guy in midlife crisis dreaming of early retirement or change of pace

i have a wife (stay at home mom) and 4 kids ranging from 6-13 years old. I have 18 years in as an officer-currently an O-5 without a strong desire to wok even harder for the chance to get O-6. If I worked harder made O-6 and put in 30 years I could retire at 53 and never work again but my kids would be starting their own lives. I am planning on doing 5 more years and getting out. At that rate I would end up with an annual pension of around 40-50k a year and a nest egg of about $350k which I wouldn't plan on touching until my 60s giving it about 15-20 years to grow.

I have no debt but I also have no home. I do have a house and land worth about 300k. The house is occupied by a relative and most likely not be available by the time I retire and not sure if I want to live there anyway. Possible rental property in the future.

Currently the wife and I each have IRAS with about 75K and we make max contributions each year. Potential problems with them are that they are managed by FirstCommand. They are in actively managed funds and I am concerned that any advantages offered by active management are being lost on management fees though I am not sure exactly what the cost is. Any in site?

Additionally we have about 75k in the TSP fund. Probably about half in traditional and half in the Roth TSP. We contribute about 10K a year now to the Roth TSP. With the Roth TSP allowing up to I believe 17.5k a year max contribution I wonder if I should max this out prior to funding the Roth IRAs given the unbeatably low expense ratio?

With the kids I am planning to pay for half for each for a 4 year degree. I am giving them each one year of my GI bill and have 529s for each hoping to cover the second year. My kids are in 7th grade, 5th grade, and twins in kindergarten. The 529s are probably woefully underfunded each with about 1.5K and annual contributions of about 600. My 7th grader is an honors student and I am hoping she will get scholarships but it is way too early to tell and I don't think it can be a planning factor. As it relates to this the 529s don't make much and I wonder if the money would be better invested in an index fund. Also, should I beef up he older 2 kids funds since they would be starting school in 5-7 years where as the twins have 12 years to go?

We also have 40k in a to be determined fund-possibly for a house but maybe shift to the 529s?

My wife also has property and a family home in Honduras. Low cost of living but one of the highest crime and murder rates in the world. Plus my size and complexion make me stick out like a sore thumb making me an obvious target.

We also have about 30K in our emergency fund.

If I get out of the Army I could find a job that would gross around 80-90k a year full time and I could bank the entire 50K/yr pension but I am trying to escape the rat race. I could work part time and still be able to maintain close to our current standard of living and current retirement savings of about 20k per year but that would really push back the retirement date. Currently hoping for a full retirement no later than 55-about 15 more years.

From a practical standpoint we could scrape by on my 50K a year (retiring with 23yrs of service) as a family of six but it would kill the quality of life. Each additional year of service would add about 2.5k to the annual pension pushing it up to about the mid 60s by which time it would just be the wife and I living off it at around age 52.

It is good to have options but also confusing. Having never really thought about this before it is a lot to process. Also never really thought of things in terms of "freedom to" instead of the traditional "freedom from{work}"
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Old 05-23-2014, 04:56 PM   #2
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i have a wife (stay at home mom) and 4 kids ranging from 6-13 years old. I have 18 years in as an officer-currently an O-5 without a strong desire to wok even harder for the chance to get O-6. If I worked harder made O-6 and put in 30 years I could retire at 53 and never work again but my kids would be starting their own lives. I am planning on doing 5 more years and getting out. At that rate I would end up with an annual pension of around 40-50k a year and a nest egg of about $350k which I wouldn't plan on touching until my 60s giving it about 15-20 years to grow.

I have no debt but I also have no home. I do have a house and land worth about 300k. The house is occupied by a relative and most likely not be available by the time I retire and not sure if I want to live there anyway. Possible rental property in the future.

Currently the wife and I each have IRAS ... managed by FirstCommand. They are in actively managed funds ... Any in site?

... I wonder if I should max this out prior to funding the Roth IRAs given the unbeatably low expense ratio?

... As it relates to this the 529s don't make much and I wonder if the money would be better invested in an index fund. Also, should I beef up he older 2 kids funds since they would be starting school in 5-7 years where as the twins have 12 years to go?

We also have 40k in a to be determined fund-possibly for a house but maybe shift to the 529s?

My wife also has property and a family home in Honduras. Low cost of living but one of the highest crime and murder rates in the world.
Greetings! I just selected for O5 yesterday myself. 14.5 years on active service (USN). A few insights and thoughts:

- No sense in sticking around for O6 just for an increased pension. Sounds like your heart's not in it anymore, and kids are more important; you can't get that time back.

- Have you checked a pension calculator? I believe your estimate of your pension is low. Based on the calculator I last ran several months ago, a high-three O5 retiring in 2020 (my situation, and sounds like yours, though you might be even higher with longevity raises) will start off with ~$58k/year pension.

- Re: First Command. Run away. I reviewed a buddy's FC holdings and showed him how they were charging him loads on top of expense ratios such that he was paying more than 2% right off the top of his investments. He was convinced the actively managed funds were beating indexes, but I plotted both for him and showed him otherwise. So, the big double whammy: you're likely paying a LOT more to underperform index funds. He made the move to Fidelity. Personally, I'm at Vanguard and highly recommend them.

Here's a chart showing impact of those fees you're not sure about... make the move!

CUMULATIVE IMPACT OF FEES:

.................................Annual Fee
................0.10%.....0.25%.....0.50%.....1.00 %.....2.00%.....3.00%

3 years.....-0.3%......-0.7%......-1.5%.....-2.9%......-5.8%.....-8.5%
5 years.....-0.5%......-1.2%......-2.5%.....-4.9%......-9.4%....-13.7%
10 years...-1.0%.......-2.5%.....-4.9%.....-9.5%.....-18.0%....-25.6%
20 years...-2.0%.......-4.9%.....-9.5%....-18.0%.....-32.7%....-44.6%
30 years...-3.0%.......-7.2%....-13.9%....-25.8%.....-44.8%....-58.8%
40 years...-3.9%.......-9.5%....-18.1%....-32.8%.....-54.7%....-69.3%

- I wouldn't plan on living in Honduras based on what you described, but that's totally up to you! Perhaps sell the property?

- My guess is selling your property/land will do you more good than renting it if you invested the money made in a low-cost index fund. There are calculators for it, and I certainly understand the desire for an income stream from rentals. I'm toying around with the idea myself, but in our area, it seems like selling is a better plan than renting (all depends on availability of renters and what you can get). Search "landlording" on this site...

- Re: TSP. Yes, you should absolutely fully fund that before your IRA, IMO. If at all possible, fully fund both. Not only does TSP offer the lowest expense ratios available anywhere for similar funds (the I Fund is controversial, I use it, others don't like that it ignores emerging markets among other things), but the G fund is as close to a "free lunch" as you can find. Many people think your entire bond allocation can (and should?) be G fund if you have access to it because it provides outsize reward for the infinitesimally small risk associated with it (and the ER is great too!). G fund is only available in TSP. The more of it you can get, particularly later in your withdrawal phase, the better!

Note: all of these are my opinions, but I've done the research for myself and read a lot (A LOT) about this stuff. Nords can probably answer some questions for you, and his book: The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Early Retirement is indeed a great resource (unsolicited endorsement!). www.militaryguide.com

- I don't have kids, but thoughts on your 529s: a lot of folks like using "Target funds" for 529s. You'll presumably need the money in, say, 2025, so use a "2025 Target Retirement Fund" from Vanguard or similar if available. That'll get you a little better return, is hands-off, cheap, and less risk than straight up indexing that money you know you need soon.

- If you aren't sure about a house purchase, I'd put the 40K towards the expense you know is coming: college(s). You can always rent, and in many markets, that's the way to go anyway!

Good luck!
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Old 05-23-2014, 05:22 PM   #3
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Yep yrs 17-21 were hard on the psyche and when the assignment team came calling saying congrats you are going to make 0-6 after you do this year as the J-8 in Iraq I just laughed. If I had stayed I would be meeting the 0-6 board this time around. Glad I didn't stay with all the drawdown activity. I am much happier being retired. I retired 3 yrs TIG as O-5 in 2011. I don't miss it a bit. Max out that TSP as its too good to pass up. Make sure you are getting all your health challenges documented in your medical records. It will be important when you go thru the VA side of the house. Also work on understanding your monthly financial needs. Cash flow is king.

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Old 05-23-2014, 05:34 PM   #4
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JSP1, you scared me with that thread title - I first thought you had been in for 40! Take about a lifer. Of course, if that were the case I guess it would NOT be an early retirement! Thanks you for your service.
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Old 05-24-2014, 02:42 PM   #5
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Welcome to the forums, JSP. Take a look at the book (it's probably in your local library) and let me know if you have questions.

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Nords can probably answer some questions for you, and his book: The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Early Retirement is indeed a great resource (unsolicited endorsement!). www.militaryguide.com
The-Military-Guide.com
Minor fix. We should probably buy that other URL, too...

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I retired 3 yrs TIG as O-5 in 2011. I don't miss it a bit.
Holy crap, it's been three years already?!?
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Old 05-24-2014, 03:55 PM   #6
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Thanks all. Nords-purchased and read your book this week-too fast for complete comprehension. I am on leave this week and trying to get some good ideas on rethinking things before going back to the grind. I've been reading and listening to everything I can find.

Nash031- congrats on being picked up and all the other info. Any thoughts on how to make a clean break from Firstcommand?
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:07 PM   #7
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Welcome to the forums, JSP. Take a look at the book (it's probably in your local library) and let me know if you have questions.


Minor fix. We should probably buy that other URL, too...


Holy crap, it's been three years already?!?

Nords -just reread your section on tsp. Would you recommend fully funding the Roth TSP and putting everything else over the Cap into the traditional TSP and forego Roth IRAs all together?
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:17 PM   #8
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Nash031- congrats on being picked up and all the other info. Any thoughts on how to make a clean break from Firstcommand?
I'm not Nash, and he may feel differently, but my suggestion is to pick a fund group like Vanguard or Fidelity. Tell them you want to transfer an IRA to them. They'll have you fill out some IRA account opening paperwork and then they will take care of contacting FirstCommand and getting the trustee to trustee transfer accomplished (it needs to be trustee to trustee direct transfer or you will have a tax issue).
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:17 PM   #9
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I believe the Roth and traditional TSP's both fall under a cumulative annual cap, so once you hit it with one, you can't do the other. So which to use, depends on your tax situation.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:22 PM   #10
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Yep yrs 17-21 were hard on the psyche and when the assignment team came calling saying congrats you are going to make 0-6 after you
+1
My story almost exactly, except that it was just years 18-21 that wore me out (in the puzzle palace).

I like all of nash031's advice, and Nords also has loads of good detailed advice. Listen to them carefully; I won't try to rehash any of it.

As you already realize by now, the biggest missing link in most people's plans is the lack of detailed expense data. Do a really good job of tracking and categorizing your daily expenses, and do it for as long as you can. That will go a really long way toward giving you the confidence you need that you're doing the right thing.

Best of luck, and hang around here; we constantly have lots of good information surface on a surprising array of topics.
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Old 05-31-2014, 12:05 PM   #11
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Nords -just reread your section on tsp. Would you recommend fully funding the Roth TSP and putting everything else over the Cap into the traditional TSP and forego Roth IRAs all together?
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I believe the Roth and traditional TSP's both fall under a cumulative annual cap, so once you hit it with one, you can't do the other. So which to use, depends on your tax situation.
Like Hawkeye says, the TSP limit is the total of the contributions to the conventional TSP and the Roth TSP.

"Which TSP" is also a judgment call. My daughter is in a very low tax bracket right now, so she's going to maximize her Roth TSP contribution (all $17,500 in the Roth TSP) and then max her Roth IRA. She pays a little in taxes now in exchange for paying almost nothing when she starts withdrawals. If she happens to stick around for a military pension then she'll definitely be happy that she made Roth TSP contributions, because even after ER a military pension would jump her right into the 15% income-tax bracket. Add investment income or rental-property income and she'd be pushing the 25% bracket even before starting RMDs. Then there's the whole issue with taxable Social Security income.

But two working spouses may have a huge honkin' income tax liability that would drop like a rock when they ER after reaching financial independence. In that case they'd want to max out their conventional TSP contribution and their IRAs (conventional IRA if they make too much for a Roth IRA). Then after ER they could start converting their IRAs to Roth IRAs, and then roll over the conventional TSP to a conventional IRA to convert it to a Roth IRA. My spouse and I are going through that conversion process now.

This gets even more complicated in a combat zone. Tax-free pay can be contributed to the Roth TSP, but only up to the $17,500 limit. The remainder (up to $52K total) has to go into the conventional TSP. (This restriction may change in the future.) Once you have tax-free money in the TSP, it may make sense to leave it there and withdraw it via RMDs instead of rollovers and conversions. I'm not a CFP, but the TSP tracks the tax-free contributions and I'm not sure an IRA custodian would do that. Your concern about tax-free vs tax-deferred TSP contributions would depend on the size of the combat zone contributions.

Because it's not complicated enough yet, I've heard (but have not confirmed) that you can't contribute only to the Roth TSP. Rumor is that in myPay you have to set up at least a 1% contribution to the conventional TSP before setting up a dollar-denominated contribution to the Roth TSP. So for now it may not be possible to do just one or the other.

Finally, I'd try to maximize TSP contributions before making IRA contributions. Servicemembers can only contribute to the TSP while they're in uniform, and that might be a lot shorter than 20 years. The TSP's low expense ratios (and the match for federal civil service) make the TSP a better deal than IRAs, especially when there are more IRA opportunities after the military.
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:25 PM   #12
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Not trying to hijack this thread but just want to point out that I posted a. Note on "other topics" about a magazine article which mentions Nords.
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:45 PM   #13
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Because it's not complicated enough yet, I've heard (but have not confirmed) that you can't contribute only to the Roth TSP. Rumor is that in myPay you have to set up at least a 1% contribution to the conventional TSP before setting up a dollar-denominated contribution to the Roth TSP. So for now it may not be possible to do just one or the other.
Nords, I can verify that service members are able to contribute 100% of their annual limit to the Roth...no need to keep putting 1% into the traditional.
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Old 06-01-2014, 11:58 AM   #14
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Not trying to hijack this thread but just want to point out that I posted a. Note on "other topics" about a magazine article which mentions Nords.
Thanks!

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Nords, I can verify that service members are able to contribute 100% of their annual limit to the Roth...no need to keep putting 1% into the traditional.
Ah, good, thanks. Apparently that was a confusing part of the TSP website, but it seems to have been updated. (I couldn't find it.) The question came up as our daughter is struggling with getting her new O-1 version of her myPay account set up with a TSP link.
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Old 06-03-2014, 01:06 PM   #15
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Ah, good, thanks. Apparently that was a confusing part of the TSP website, but it seems to have been updated. (I couldn't find it.) The question came up as our daughter is struggling with getting her new O-1 version of her myPay account set up with a TSP link.
I was confused with this initially as well and continued to contribute 1% to the traditional TSP for a few months until I finally got it figured out. I think the MyPay website is a little clearer now, but you effectively have to start Roth contributions (a particular dollar amount) and then hit the "stop TSP" button under the Traditional portion.
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Old 06-03-2014, 04:33 PM   #16
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Nash031- congrats on being picked up and all the other info. Any thoughts on how to make a clean break from Firstcommand?
My coworker whose eyes I opened simply called them and requested to move his funds from them to Fidelity. When they asked why, he explained about their loads and expense ratios, and they tried to talk to him about active management. He asked why his funds had trailed the S&P despite their active management, and they had no answer. They helped him out with the transfer.

I'm a Vanguard guy myself. Vanguard has vested interest in getting your money, so I'd work the transfer through them (a "pull" from Vanguard, rather than a "push" from FC). I did the same when I moved my investments from USAA to Vanguard: I just let VG handle all the particulars with USAA while I worked with the company who was getting my money.

There are lots of good options out there, Vanguard's the one we went with and I like them a lot. I would roll your FC IRAs over to them and open what's called a simple "Three Fund Portfolio", but I'm a Boglehead... What you do once you get your accounts at Vanguard depends on your goals, but simple, inexpensive index funds are the way to go, IMO - Total Stock Market, Total International Stock Market, and Total Bond.
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Old 06-03-2014, 11:40 PM   #17
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Any thoughts on how to make a clean break from Firstcommand?
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My coworker whose eyes I opened simply called them and requested to move his funds from them to Fidelity. When they asked why, he explained about their loads and expense ratios, and they tried to talk to him about active management. He asked why his funds had trailed the S&P despite their active management, and they had no answer. They helped him out with the transfer.

I'm a Vanguard guy myself. Vanguard has vested interest in getting your money, so I'd work the transfer through them (a "pull" from Vanguard, rather than a "push" from FC). I did the same when I moved my investments from USAA to Vanguard: I just let VG handle all the particulars with USAA while I worked with the company who was getting my money.
Another vote for the non-confrontational approach.

File all the transfer/rollover paperwork with your new financial institution and ask them to handle the whole transfer from FirstCommand. FC may insist that you cash out of any proprietary funds that can't be transferred "in kind", but your new financial institution is a lot less likely to put up with that intimidation tactic than a fund owner might be.

FirstCommand is legally obligated to comply with your choice of having the new financial company execute the transfer as your agent, so they're unlikely to do more than mail you a final statement. They'll probably recognize that they're wasting their time on any further retention efforts.
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Old 06-04-2014, 06:10 AM   #18
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Thanks again. I'll try to provide an update once I make a decision. I need to pick out some funds.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:32 AM   #19
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Hi, I am equipoise

May I recommend hard assets also as a hedge against inflation?
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Hang in there
Old 06-07-2014, 05:46 AM   #20
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Hang in there

I was in a similar state of mind about ten years ago and finally decided to retire this year. We reevaluated what was important for us to have a “quality of life” that was more aligned to our values and less about having "stuff". We tracked our expenses for over ten years (a spreadsheet that I maintained since 2001) and had a good feel of what our living cost would be when we retire. We saved as much as we could (three deployments helped) for the past ten years so we could pay mostly cash for our final home today. With a small mortgage or no mortgage, you could easily have a quality of life to enjoy your family on retirement pay. Good luck to you and your family.
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