This is a great point to consider. A non-monetary thing to consider as well: when I voluntarily ER'd, it was a great feeling to leave on my own terms.
Anyone negotiate a "severance" in non-RIF times?
- Thread starter dadu007
- Start date
This is a great point to consider. A non-monetary thing to consider as well: when I voluntarily ER'd, it was a great feeling to leave on my own terms.
Strickly speaking many severances often come about due to a reduction in force and your position being eliminated. A company is going to be less interested in giving a severance to somebody they have to replace.
It’s not to say you can’t negotiate some sort of amicable transition if the terms are beneficial for both parties. Different companies may have different willingness to do such a thing. It happens at very high levels, not as much at middle or lower levels. The company has to be careful not to come up with some arrangement that is preferential to you vs other employees, both from a legal perspective and a perceptions basis. If you negotiate a sweet deal to walk away in 6 months or a year then other employees may want to do the same.
A conversation with a good employment attorney may be helpful. Or it could be helpful to have an open conversation with your managers. But there is risk in that and it may not work out how you want , and if the employer thinks you are trying to hold them over a barrel they may not react favorably.
Good luck whatever you decide.
It’s not to say you can’t negotiate some sort of amicable transition if the terms are beneficial for both parties. Different companies may have different willingness to do such a thing. It happens at very high levels, not as much at middle or lower levels. The company has to be careful not to come up with some arrangement that is preferential to you vs other employees, both from a legal perspective and a perceptions basis. If you negotiate a sweet deal to walk away in 6 months or a year then other employees may want to do the same.
A conversation with a good employment attorney may be helpful. Or it could be helpful to have an open conversation with your managers. But there is risk in that and it may not work out how you want , and if the employer thinks you are trying to hold them over a barrel they may not react favorably.
Good luck whatever you decide.
Closet_Gamer
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
It’s a very important consideration. In my case a package was very valuable. DW and I agreed that I would swing for the fence but if it didn’t work I would quit.
You do always have to ask whether the juice is worth the squeeze.
youbet
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
The bottom line to OP’s situation is “precedence.” Management will cringe if anything they do for OP might become an expectation of others.
I would have never done a “special” package for one voluntarily exiting employee without expecting I’d be under pressure to do the same for others.
I would have never done a “special” package for one voluntarily exiting employee without expecting I’d be under pressure to do the same for others.
jollystomper
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2012
- Messages
- 6,188
To the OP, my experience: my Megacorp did do layoffs with severance packages. They also did performance based firings without severance. It was not uncommon for those expressing a desire for a severance package to leave to not get one. Instead, in many cases their performance suddenly "declined" and they were let go (or allowed to retire) without a package (as Megacorp did not give packages if your performance was deemed poor).
In my situation I had told my management in 2017 that I intended to retire in 2018. I also told them if a layoff came across and it would help their numbers (and help them not having to get rid of someone who needed a job), I would be fine with it. But I was not expecting it.
Long story short (i have another thread about my "glide path" with a few more details), a project giving to a younger worker, than would normally have been given to me (but probably not since I had expressed my desire to retire) crashed and burned, the the younger worker was layed off, And I was asked if if could be salvaged. I told them I could do it, but it would take 2 months beyond my intended retirement date. Their response was "what would it take for you to stay the extra 2 months?" And thus begun the package discussions.
The reason I got a package was because I could save a project that had high visibility to our organization executives at a time. It was less a general "he's been here a while so let's give him a sendoff package" and more "he is producing something that will live beyond his departure date, it is worth it".
So... the odds of you negotiating a package are better if there is some specific task or action you can take beforehand that your management sees as value beyond your departure. In my case, I was fortunate, the project turned out so successful, and I mentioned 3 others to carry it on after I left, that I got a surprise beyond the package - a bonus after I retired, driven specifically by the executive I mentioned, in appreciation of leaving her with an asset she valued.
In my situation I had told my management in 2017 that I intended to retire in 2018. I also told them if a layoff came across and it would help their numbers (and help them not having to get rid of someone who needed a job), I would be fine with it. But I was not expecting it.
Long story short (i have another thread about my "glide path" with a few more details), a project giving to a younger worker, than would normally have been given to me (but probably not since I had expressed my desire to retire) crashed and burned, the the younger worker was layed off, And I was asked if if could be salvaged. I told them I could do it, but it would take 2 months beyond my intended retirement date. Their response was "what would it take for you to stay the extra 2 months?" And thus begun the package discussions.
The reason I got a package was because I could save a project that had high visibility to our organization executives at a time. It was less a general "he's been here a while so let's give him a sendoff package" and more "he is producing something that will live beyond his departure date, it is worth it".
So... the odds of you negotiating a package are better if there is some specific task or action you can take beforehand that your management sees as value beyond your departure. In my case, I was fortunate, the project turned out so successful, and I mentioned 3 others to carry it on after I left, that I got a surprise beyond the package - a bonus after I retired, driven specifically by the executive I mentioned, in appreciation of leaving her with an asset she valued.
Alex The Great
Recycles dryer sheets
I did not negotiate anything. I even did not tell anyone at work about my plan to retire in Sep 2023. However I've been laid off just two weeks before I was preparing to give a notice. This was a nice surprise: in addition to vested RSUs, I received a severance package and collected unemployment benefits for 6 months. Obviously, age was a primary factor for layoff although of course nobody talked about it.
This pretty much happened to me last November. I had been mulling retirement and the company had a surprise RIF, with most of my group being let go. This included my boss. I'd hate to still be there without my old boss running the group since the stress would have increased substantially.
I'm receiving a half year severance and have already collected 22 weeks of unemployment. They also provided the company's share of the health insurance for those 6 months in a lump sum payment which is going into COBRA payments. They also paid out pro-rated bonus for the past year. My wife will be retiring this summer with full pension at which time I will go onto her health insurance plan which will cover us through retirement.
The past five months of retirement have been great. Zero stress. I can get used to this.
RetiredHappy
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2021
- Messages
- 1,596
When you have no leverage, you cannot negotiate a severance package when you want to resign. No way no how.
Aside from the unemployment, this is my wishlist! So while it’s unlikely I’ll be part of a RIF (my company is not a MC, but it is growing), it doesn’t seem that my idea of a fair package is outrageous.
@jollystomper: While it is true I’ve been marginalized for what are my least important managerial and technical duties, I am the lone SME (Subject Matter Expert) with regard to some new medical equipment we are JUST NOW releasing to the market. And, frankly, it’s the only part of my job I still enjoy. (I could lose all the managerial BS and not lose any sleep over it. I mentored the right people to take that over.)
I’ve acted as a consultant for the new project, essentially. We had to kill the previous generation of the same hardware during COVID (2020) due to an impassable logistical log jamb, and I oversaw that project for its life before that. So they brought me in to help on this one. (I am the only person in my department who holds the necessary professional certification and experience to understand the hardware.)
All that to say I’m holding that ace in my pocket and I’ve pondered how to use that to my advantage. Your comments reminded of that. Thx!
My first thought is that I can make sure the equipment pipeline (and customer-facing training) is up and running smoothly (by December) and then ask for a reduction in time commitment for next Jan-June. Even that would be a win.
Similar to jollystomper, it is in the realm of possibility they might “thank me” on my way out for sticking around to make sure this project has legs. Who knows?
I never tried to negotiate a severance deal outside of RIF for myself. I was once approached by a 20 year employee (VP HR) who was burned out on the corporate world and asked for a severance package commensurate with his years of service. His plan was to go into a business partnership with another employee who also wanted to leave with a package. As head of the division I declined the request explaining severance is a payment the company gives to employees whose jobs are eliminated due to a company decision to reduce headcount or restructure the organization. It provides a financial bridge for those who are suddenly forced into unemployment by the company due to the company's business needs. As for employees in good standing who voluntarily exit employment, for any reason, the corporation considered that to be a personal lifestyle or career decision of the individual independent of the company.I introduced myself years back, but I didn't know which sub-forum to post this question. If the admin needs to move it, I thank you in advance.
I turned 63 in January. First child is now out of college with a good job (just got promoted yesterday, as a matter of fact) and he's still living at home. (Fine with us; muliti-generational households have upsides for all parties and are making a comeback.) Second child has one more year of college, and those monies are planned for. He will definitely not return to the nest, LOL. He's a mover and shaker with big dreams! My wife works for the school district; she's 56 1/2. Her job is in question these days due to some unbelievable district admin decisions. It's a year-by-year thing with her (or the district's) decision to stay or leave. We can afford to retire tomorrow if we had to: 2.2 mil in investments, paid off house worth 550k. No debt. Planning on my SS at age 70 ($4k a month).
I am so burned out from work after 23 years with this company!!! I just want it to end. I have turned over many of my duties to my two direct reports. I do feel like I have been marginalized. Not overt ageism; just that my time in the sun in the company is over and people see my lower performance. I'm honestly fine with that. I really do want to hand it off to the younger crowd. Problem is my wife wants me to try to make it to Spring 2025 to exit my job; mainly for her own sense of security. It's true we have "enough" now. We could both exit tomorrow, but her (frankly traumatized) background will never let her sit completely at ease with me retiring (ever). I realize now I have to make the executive decision for when I depart my job and then ask for her forgiveness later. In all other aspects, our marriage is fantastic and we love each other deeply. Been married 27 years!
Finally, my question: My company does not regularly get rid of people through RIFs and I don't see one coming anytime soon. 6 months ago I told my manager that if there were layoffs to please put me at the top of the list. She was little surprised that I would say such a thing. "Really? You want to retire?" "Yes," I said. "I would like at least 10 years of not working before I die. Longevity does not run in my family." She did say that when people who have worked for a company a long time want to retire, she tries to give them a "package" over and above just their last paycheck, as you would get if you just normally "quit". But I'm not sure at all if her "package" aligns at all with my wish list below!
I've been concocting this plan in my mind that I want to present her (my boss) around July. Basically my great idea is to tell her that I want to leave at the end of 2024. And here is my wish list:
- 23 weeks of pay to be paid to me upon retirement (1 week of pay for each year worked for the company)
- Continued healthcare through the end of June 2025, during which time I would pay my normal medical plan contribution out of my "severence" payment and the company would continue their contribution. My wife's medical enrollment is always in May, and the effective date is July 1. So I could hop to her plan in that time frame.
The above is all I would ask of the company.
So my real question is: Is this a weird thing to ask/negotiate with manager? Is my wish list unreasonable? Has anyone here every done this before, and with success? i.e., Negotiated a departure when the company is NOT laying off people? I'll be clear. I am NOT in the C-Suite. I'm just a mid-level manager.
It's all I think about. So much so that I just want on lay all my cards on the table to my boss. I'm sick of the work, sick of managing people (I am ultimately responsible for a team of 25 people, and I touch base with each of them at least once a month). I want her (my boss) to help me leave the company with a little dignity and, honestly, on my own terms. My formal proposal (that I've written up) also shows how they could hire two new people for my department using my old salary.
I guess you get the point. I'm rambling. Any help?
Both employees were unhappy with my decision which was consistent with corporate policy. Within 3 months both voluntarily resigned. The former VP got tired of being an entrepreneur within 6 months, found a job with another corporation, and worked there many years until he retired. The other former employee hung onto the business, which was initially successful but floundered when he tried to expand too rapidly. He ended up as an instructor at a community college.
Quite frankly, in my 40 year corporate business career, many years at senior levels, I never heard of an instance where an employee was given a severance package for an actual voluntary resignation. I did see a few instances where an employee told his/her supervisor and/or HR if a RIF was coming the employee wished to be considered for the downsizing. In all of these instances, where a RIF followed within a year, the employee who asked was granted his/her wish even if the employee's performance was at an outstanding level.
Closet_Gamer
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I once went to bat for an employee who wanted to leave. She was coming back from maternity and decided she wanted to stay home with the kids. Budgets were tight and she’d been a great employee for over a decade.
She said “I’ve decided to stay home with my kids, any chance you can eliminate my role?”
This turned into a big deal because she quit and then asked for a package.
If she had just said “I’d be willing to take a package if you need to eliminate a role” it would have been a 30 second conversation to pay her to go. People would have been thrilled to find an easy button.
I decided I wasn’t going to let her lose a package that loads of others were getting because she put a few words in the wrong order. I damaged a few of my relationships getting her paid but I felt it was the right thing to do.
She said “I’ve decided to stay home with my kids, any chance you can eliminate my role?”
This turned into a big deal because she quit and then asked for a package.
If she had just said “I’d be willing to take a package if you need to eliminate a role” it would have been a 30 second conversation to pay her to go. People would have been thrilled to find an easy button.
I decided I wasn’t going to let her lose a package that loads of others were getting because she put a few words in the wrong order. I damaged a few of my relationships getting her paid but I felt it was the right thing to do.
The only instances I have seen where someone received a "severance" package apart from a RIF situation was where the employee and employer had some sort of disagreement, in which the employer feared the employee would make the subject of the disagreement public (not so much a fear of a lawsuit as a fear for their reputation). The employee agreed to sign a non-disclosure agreement (though it may also have included a covenant not to sue) and receive a "severance" payment. Regardless of what the money might have been in reality, it was styled as a "severance," and the employee was allowed to quit without being fired.
