Another who has given up on TMF REHP

[Rosie]

I was an avid follower of TMF and especially the REHP board. I bailed out on both over a decade ago, for much of the same reasons mentioned in the posts above. I recognize some of the usernames here from the olden days.

I recently took a look at TMF. Good grief!

Yep, I've said that for years about TMF. They have become almost exactly "The Wise" they used to dismiss as money-suck who didn't know any more than a well-informed individual investor.

Precisely.

 

[InParadise]

Welcome InParadise. I was very active in REHP TMF forum from 2000 until about 2007. Did you post under the same username? I used the same name.

It is sad what has happened to the Motley Fool. My mom (and I) seem to be permanently on their mailing list, and mom also reads their stuff in her local Sunday paper.

She is convinced that they are some type of stock gurus. I've tried explaining that 15 years ago they were, big proponents of index funds, do it yourself investing and sharing of ideas among members. However, they quickly discovered their was no money in that. So they switched 180 degrees and now push, managed funds, newsletters and expert advice.

Yes, same name, since 1999. The only value to TMF is some of their boards. I found great support in dealing with my elderly parents during their decline and beyond on the Taking Care of Parents board, tax help on Tax Strategies, wonderful feedback for my various projects on Building and Maintaining a Home board, and enjoy the Buying/Selling a Home board. None of the boards I frequent there are political, and there are many wonderful posters who are great and generous resources.

I have to receive their emails touting their special "deals" in order to receive private emails from other posters, or I would have ditched those. They sold out long ago, and sadly even their articles have very little merit, at least to me, acting mostly as selling teases for their services. You should be able to unsubscribe from their emails if you don't want to receive them.

IP

 

[InParadise]

The house is lovely, IP.

Part time is actually not a big deal. DW has been part time self employed for years and now that I am free I can see so many low effort ways to pick up a few shekels here and there. Our budget is pretty modest (5k/month) and I figure we will cover 2 to 3k/month for the first few years to mitigate sequence of returns risk and hedge the fact that W and I are pulling the plug at age 40.

What a fabulous success to retire at 40! Are you still in the same area? IIRC, that's a darned high COL!

It's funny how everyone has a different definition of "retirement," and what counts is satisfying your requirements. When Eldest came along and we decided a two career family meant someone else raising our kids, I quit my career and became Family Facilitator. No outside pay, but never considered myself retired, and frankly had some months where I made more than DH with my investing returns. It was well paid work, but frankly I am now more than happy to pay someone to do it.

With having kids, there were times when our desire to RE were in conflict with their desires. We are not high maintenance people, and we do not drive the BMWs or Acuras that our kids' friends parents do. Heck, some of the kids drive Mercedes to school, albeit no doubt a cast off 3 year old model that was replaced with a new one. When Youngest asked why we didn't have an expensive car, I explained that I was more interested in getting DH out from behind his desk before he died there, than driving an expensive car that did no better than the basic one we had. And I've had to explain to him that just because we were heading on to the next phase of our life, it didn't mean he was being excluded. He too would be heading to his college stage, and would definitely have a room to come back to at the cabin. Your kids will probably have a leg up on all this, since you will have scaled back when they were so young, but it is important to discuss with them the joy of choice that comes from financial independence, and the trade offs that requires. I am the youngest of my siblings, by far, and for many years felt I was being pushed out of the nest in pursuit of my parents early retirement, full time RVing. I won't do that to our kids, but unless you start the dialog, it probably won't happen.

OK, off the soapbox!

IP

 

[brewer12345]

Actually a bit over 2.5 years ago we relocated to the Denver area with my employer doing a transfer and paying for the move. DW grew up here, most of her family is here, and this is the area we had always planned on ERing. Cost of living is way lower and basically makes what we are doing possible. We also hugely traded up in school districts and lifestyle.

We started teaching the kids about money at an early age, so its not challenging to explain things about lifestyle choices to them. We never had the big lifestyle and always avoided communities that had a ton of conspicuous consumption, so its never really been an issue with the kids.

I consider myself ESRd or ERd. I don't necessarily not want to work or earn money, its just that the days of me showing up at someone's beck and call every day for money are over. Among other things, I have started writing stuff for Seeking Alpha and I am open to opportunities that are interesting, sufficiently lucrative and have a minimum amount of BS.

 

[Major Tom]

It is sad what has happened to the Motley Fool. My mom (and I) seem to be permanently on their mailing list, and mom also reads their stuff in her local Sunday paper.

I subscribe to their Rule Breakers newsletter simply because I have a small amount invested in RB stocks and have quite enjoyed following their fortunes. However, I plan to sell those stocks and stop my subscription in the next few years, when my entire portfolio will be index funds. The regular price for the newsletter subscription is much more than I'm willing to pay so when it expires, I don't renew, and they end up giving it me way cheaper after a month or two. I hate these kinds of games but if that's the way they want to play it...........

As a result of this subscription, I have to endure the excessive stream of "This is your last chance to sign up for this exclusive opportunity" type of e-mails. They drive me barmy. Sometimes, they offer me "one final chance" many times in a row, only to start doing it again once the initial "final deadline" has passed. What kind of idiot do they think I am?

It's a real shame.

 

[InParadise]

It is amazing, the power of lowering one's cost of living. Your move to Denver makes much more sense. I could not imagine a budget of $5K/mo where you used to live!

We don't expect to need near that much, though that is our budget too, net of college costs which have already been accounted for. It actually will be interesting to see what the schools expect us to pay in retirement. I recently found out that if our AGI is under $50K, (today's requirement,) "[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]then the family qualifies for the Simplified Needs Test which disregards assets when determining the expected family contribution." FinAid | Financial Aid Applications | Maximizing Your Aid Eligibility So we would file a different FAFSA that ignores our savings. That will be interesting to see how it affects our expected family contribution, particularly if they do not then just throw loans at us. It pays to do research and think outside the box.

IP
[/FONT]

 

[brewer12345]

We don't expect to need near that much, though that is our budget too, net of college costs which have already been accounted for. It actually will be interesting to see what the schools expect us to pay in retirement. I recently found out that if our AGI is under $50K, (today's requirement,) "[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]then the family qualifies for the Simplified Needs Test which disregards assets when determining the expected family contribution." FinAid | Financial Aid Applications | Maximizing Your Aid Eligibility So we would file a different FAFSA that ignores our savings. That will be interesting to see how it affects our expected family contribution, particularly if they do not then just throw loans at us. It pays to do research and think outside the box.[/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]IP[/FONT]

We will bring in MAGI just under 35k this year in order to maximize Obamacare goodies. We cannot do that every year, but since I think the subsidies will eventually go away for people like me I am trying to maximize it while I can.

 

[Katsmeow]

When Eldest came along and we decided a two career family meant someone else raising our kids, I quit my career and became Family Facilitator.

I guess it just depends on the situation. In our family, DH and I both worked full-time and we never felt that meant someone else raising our kids. And, I don't think our kids (our youngest are in college now) ever felt that anyone raised them other than DH and I. While we did both work, we prioritized our out of work lives in family related activities. Perhaps that made the difference.

 

[InParadise]

Katsmeow, I never meant to imply that others should do what we did. DH works 12+ hour days and I had put in long days as well, in addition to being on the road 25% of the time. No family lived near us, and we were talking Au Pair. It was also the time when the Nanny Cam scandles were all over the news, showing one abusive nanny after another. By the time my maternity leave was over, I couldn't face handing Eldest over to someone else. Actually tried working part time from home for three months, but we had the choice to be a one income family so we took it. It is wonderful having options.

For the most part, I don't regret giving up my career, though I am fortunate nothing happened to him, making me the primary bread winner. I have not found that the kids need me less now than when younger. I tried going back to work a couple of times, but it was always too much a strain on the family, and simply not worth it after taxes and expenses. Plus, my returns on investments definitely fell when I didn't pay enough attention to them, so staying at home was the best option for the family. Got to give lots of credit to DH, though. He never made me feel as though I was not pulling my full weight by not bringing a paycheck home. He filled in a couple of times during those first three months when I was still working and had to go in for a meeting, and was stunned at how little he got done that day compared to my normal schedule. Got to confess that was pretty darned validating.

I also wonder if having only the one salary, albeit a very good one, helped to cement the desire to save raises and bonuses rather than increase our standard of living, which has remained essentially the same since we married. It probably always was in us, but I found it motivational.

YMMV. It almost always does.

IP

 

[Helen]

REHP by John P. Greaney, my patron saint, from whom with the Terhorsts and the Kaderlies I learned that it was possible to leave the game before I die.

John Greaney was the first person to enlighten me as to the possibility of retiring early. That lit a fire under me and we started getting very serious about saving and investing.

I visited the REHP and LBYM boards, but got tired of wading through the crap about a decade ago. Also, the buy and hold philosophy that the MF pushed cost me dearly during the high tech bust.

I very rarely go over to the MF anymore. This website is in my top 3 favorite websites.

 

[steelyman]

The mods here do an excellent job nipping that stuff in the bud and I am grateful for their efforts.

True! I was a moderator briefly last year - don't even think I lasted a month after I saw how hard they work (something a typical member never sees) - and I asked them to return me to sender.

All their decisions are group, so don't ever think there's some "renegade moderator" that has it in for you (that's a generic "you", not to brewer12345). Better yet, just behave. That's not so hard.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Oh I don't know...unless Brewer tells me the top secret drinking spots in the Denver area before our trip through there later this year, he's a marked man!!

 

[steelyman]

Oh I don't know...unless Brewer tells me the top secret drinking spots in the Denver area before our trip through there later this year, he's a marked man!!

I've visited Denver a lot but not to drinking spots. Boulder's Pearl Street is a different story. It's just a little way up the road.

 

[brewer12345]

Oh I don't know...unless Brewer tells me the top secret drinking spots in the Denver area before our trip through there later this year, he's a marked man!!

Damned if I know. Have you seen how much bars charge for a pint? Mostly I head for (or send eldest for) the taps in my basement.

 

[Katsmeow]

Katsmeow, I never meant to imply that others should do what we did. DH works 12+ hour days and I had put in long days as well, in addition to being on the road 25% of the time. No family lived near us, and we were talking Au Pair. It was also the time when the Nanny Cam scandles were all over the news, showing one abusive nanny after another. By the time my maternity leave was over, I couldn't face handing Eldest over to someone else. Actually tried working part time from home for three months, but we had the choice to be a one income family so we took it. It is wonderful having options.

I certainly can understand the choice to be a one income family and to have one parent be the stay at home parent. I have no problem with that choice at all. When I semi-retired a few years ago began working very part-time and DH retired fully that allowed us to homeschool our daughter for high school which was to the benefit of all of us. I've cherished that experience.

The only thing that bothered me in the initial post was solely the phrase

we decided a two career family meant someone else raising our kids

which certainly seemed to me to imply that having a 2 career family somehow means the parents aren't raising their children and have chosen to kind of frivolously have others raise their children. I just felt that phrase was sort of a loaded phrase that might come across hurtful to those of us who made a different choice. In any event, I personally think that either choice can be a good choice for the specific family and that, regardless of the choice made, one can be a 2 career family and still be raising one's children.

Anyway...I've digressed so back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[InParadise]

"The only thing that bothered me in the initial post was solely the phrase

Quote:
we decided a two career family meant someone else raising our kids"

OK, but I figured the "our" was pretty specific to Our situation, not a judgement on others. Anyway, spent way too much time on this already. Have a good one.

IP

 

[friar1610]

As with some others in this thread, I'm a veteran of TMF's REHP. I discovered it when I Googled "early retirement" and was lead to John Greaney's REHP and devoured all the info he had compiled. A short time later, he moved the Q&A portion of his REHP to TMF. I really learned an awful lot from John G., Dory and many others who posted about FIRE and that helped me to come up with a specific plan for ER. I was saving/investing a large portion of my income already, so I was already on the right track.

I became less and less interested in the site as it became a forum for both left-wing and right-wing rants. (Although the right eventually hijacked the board, interest was a pretty vociferous anti-Bush poster.)

Today, 10 years into retirement, the only financial sites I regularly visit are this one and Bogleheads. But for several years the old TMF REHP was a wonderful source of information and enjoyment for me.

BTW, I posted as jtmitch for most of my time there.

 

[ziggy29]

I became less and less interested in the site as it became a forum for both left-wing and right-wing rants. (Although the right eventually hijacked the board, interest was a pretty vociferous anti-Bush poster.)

Yes, and IIRC the right wing "reaction" really took off as a result of Greaney's constant rants about "Dumbya" and "Deceitful Dick". And not only did it take off, but intercst discovered he was outgunned and outnumbered, started hanging out elsewhere and left.

It's an interesting case study into who throwing politics into the ring, especially when combined with the relative anonymity of the Internet, can turn a formerly pleasant, mostly on-topic community into a toxic brew of insults, intolerance and disrespect.

 

[friar1610]

Yes, and IIRC the right wing "reaction" really took off as a result of Greaney's constant rants about "Dumbya" and "Deceitful Dick". And not only did it take off, but intercst discovered he was outgunned and outnumbered, started hanging out elsewhere and left.

It's an interesting case study into who throwing politics into the ring, especially when combined with the relative anonymity of the Internet, can turn a formerly pleasant, mostly on-topic community into a toxic brew of insults, intolerance and disrespect.

Yes; and I almost mentioned in my post that the right wing reaction might have been just that - a reaction to what intercst was posting. Not 100% sure it was cause and effect but I think it likely was. And I agree it's an interesting case study. I'm glad to see that this site has a forum specifically for political posts (I've never been there) and that Bogleheads is really hard-core about closing threads and/or deleting posts when things turn too political. I've got nothing against political discourse but just want to read it where I expect to, not on sites/boards that have been created for entirely different reasons.

 

[ziggy29]

Yes; and I almost mentioned in my post that the right wing reaction might have been just that - a reaction to what intercst was posting. Not 100% sure it was cause and effect but I think it likely was. And I agree it's an interesting case study. I'm glad to see that this site has a forum specifically for political posts (I've never been there) and that Bogleheads is really hard-core about closing threads and/or deleting posts when things turn too political. I've got nothing against political discourse but just want to read it where I expect to, not on sites/boards that have been created for entirely different reasons.

And for those who aren't aware of it, there are limits to the scope and tone of political discussions here. They have to be at least reasonably linked to issues concerning retirement and they need to be civil and respectful. And they need to be "quarantined" to the FIRE-related politics board.

As for Bogleheads, at least they are consistent -- they pretty much put the hammer down and close/delete *anything* not on topic, whether it's politics or puppies.

I've just seen too many communities blow up, so many cordial and respectful acquaintances turn mean and nasty because of it all.

 

[Major Tom]

"Don't blame me - I voted for Willie Nelson."

(Bumper sticker seen on the back of a truck in my neighborhood).

 

[InParadise]

Jtmitch, aka friar1610, great to see you again! I went through a period of mourning as the REHP morphed into something intolerable. Missed my friends. Glad to see so many familiar names here.

IP

 

[clifp]

While politics discussion certainly were a factor in the demise of REHP, the thing that kills online community just like real communities was lack of new blood.

In the early 2000s, TMF seeing their business model of pushing DIY investing was not generating revenue, struggled to find a way to make some $. Noticing that their boards were among the most popular feature on the site and at the time the most popular for investing decided to start charging for access to the forums. The rolled out their charge scheme over a couple years and granted lots of folks a free year. That essentially stopped new people from coming.

The problem with retirement financially planning discussion isn't like cars, or stocks, or football, or American Idol there isn't a lot of new stuff to discuss. (The board does a very good job of scouring the net for new news). So without new topics or new members people end up telling and listening to the same stories. I know I repeat the same stories I try to and do it no more than once a year per story and only in a thread which has some new members. Can't do that without same old crew.

Politics helped convince old members to leave, but the lack of new members was the real of cause of death. I don't spend much time on the Boglehead because they limit the discuss so dramatically. I wish there was more latitude here, but the moderation isn't excessive.

I still follow the TMF Berkshire board, there hasn't been more than a couple of new posters a year for a decade, and very little political discussion. The Intel board which use to get 100 posts a week, I just checked had 89 since I last visited it back in March 2013.

 

[InParadise]

While politics discussion certainly were a factor in the demise of REHP, the thing that kills online community just like real communities was lack of new blood.

In the early 2000s, TMF seeing their business model of pushing DIY investing was not generating revenue, struggled to find a way to make some $. Noticing that their boards were among the most popular feature on the site and at the time the most popular for investing decided to start charging for access to the forums. The rolled out their charge scheme over a couple years and granted lots of folks a free year. That essentially stopped new people from coming.

The problem with retirement financially planning discussion isn't like cars, or stocks, or football, or American Idol there isn't a lot of new stuff to discuss. (The board does a very good job of scouring the net for new news). So without new topics or new members people end up telling and listening to the same stories. I know I repeat the same stories I try to and do it no more than once a year per story and only in a thread which has some new members. Can't do that without same old crew.

Politics helped convince old members to leave, but the lack of new members was the real of cause of death. I don't spend much time on the Boglehead because they limit the discuss so dramatically. I wish there was more latitude here, but the moderation isn't excessive.

I still follow the TMF Berkshire board, there hasn't been more than a couple of new posters a year for a decade, and very little political discussion. The Intel board which use to get 100 posts a week, I just checked had 89 since I last visited it back in March 2013.

Can't agree here. There was no lack of new blood to TMF. The problem was too much new blood after they went to the free format, allowing people to add their two cents without any skin in the game. The discourse got much more contentious, less respectful. There was nothing to lose.

The only limit to new things to discuss is your imagination.

IP

 

[panhead]

REHP by John P. Greaney, my patron saint, from whom with the Terhorsts and the Kaderlies I learned that it was possible to leave the game before I die.

It still has resources that are updated from time to time that are priceless.

Bless you, John, where ever you are.

Hey IP!

I found the REHP in/around 1997, followed the TMF board over there until it became a pay site and then left. I was seriously looking at ER early on, but Greaney showed me my first image of how it could be done. I'm still w*rking, but getting ever closer to what I consider to be a workable plan and the magic number to go along with it. I too mainly come here (though I don't post much, look at my join date vs number of posts), and Bogleheads.

Welcome into the light!