Burn Out-Finances Longest intro in History?

[ready yesterday]

Fuego...oops. it added up until I had not added in insurance for either of us. I fear I NOW I am going to go VERY hard a$$ pretty soon, and continue to w@rk at least 4 more? Ouch. Now I have to HOPE for new l/t contracts? Triple hard gulp.

Much of the last years costs were taken on as I knew I had three solid years of income coming in and we could afford, along with the refi:

new windows and doors in a 100 year old house..20 of them. The other 20 were replaced 10 years ago with a lifetime guarantee. So this should be our last set of windows, ever. I really thought should have helped with the gas/electric costs, so far that has not seemed to happen as rates went up so the difference is minimal. Tankless water heater, new, but not all, copper piping.
The car (used). All my cars have been used. our two others are a 96 and 95 and used mostly for hauling things and vacation trips.

All of the very long term issues were addresses.

A roof I think is our main last consideration, replaced 15 years ago. I really do not know how long they last, but we have had no issues.
Ip exterior paint about 6 years ago.
Badly needed hardscaping was a huge chunk but nothing we could do ourselves...with a yard full of old cracked concrete, that was a must and an eyesore we could not deal with after dealing with it forever. It took bulldozers and a huge team of younger stronger men over a week. Each paver must have weighed 10 pounds hauling thing away? We never could have done that. It was tons.
The landscaping and decks we did ourselves.

Ok I sign off for now and plan. Financial planner Thursday, lawyer friend with ideas this week. Tracking down paperwork when acct partner is back in town, 2 weeks. I have one partner who will help me double team him for all the docs ASAP. And also demand monthly statements. He is also peeved about the hounding we have to do. My wurk is cut out for me. Thank you for opening my eyes. I'm squinting...but they are open.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If your husband isn't working full time, then can he be in charge of the budget and reducing your run rate to move you towards ER? He could do things like shop mortgage rates, renegotiate the cable bill, get the best assortment of cash back rewards cards, shop insurance rates, grocery shop the loss leaders, cook from scratch, get LED light bulbs, go around the house with a Kill A Watt to reduce your energy bill, etc.

Every 1K you cut off your annual household expenses over a 40 year retirement means needing 40K less of after tax money in your retirement nest egg. You might have to earn 60K before taxes to earn what cutting your annual retirement expenses by 1K per year can do for you. Even if your husband doesn't have a regular job there is a lot he can to help move you towards ER.

 

[ready yesterday]

If your husband isn't working full time, then can he be in charge of the budget and reducing your run rate to move you towards ER? He could do things like shop mortgage rates, renegotiate the cable bill, get the best assortment of cash back rewards cards, shop insurance rates, grocery shop the loss leaders, cook from scratch, get LED light bulbs, go around the house with a Kill A Watt to reduce your energy bill, etc.

Every 1K you cut off your annual household expenses over a 40 year retirement means needing 40K less of after tax money in your retirement nest egg. You might have to earn 60K before taxes to earn what cutting your annual retirement expenses by 1K per year can do for you. Even if your husband doesn't have a regular job there is a lot he can to help move you towards ER.

Thanks DLDS. He actually does most of those things now..cooking is a shared hobby but he does more than I do. And he shop the half- off meat bin. and ethnic shops where produce is dirt cheap.
outside of someone's special occasion, I can't remember the last time we went out to dinner. I am usually too tired and he is pretty skilled...Culinary school drop out about 30 years ago.
Refi was just completed in dec along with last years house projects.

We have 6 can lights that are not cfe they are on dimmers and have not replaced in years. Dont know if they come in cfe 2 lamp lights on remote are the same. I can not rember the exact reason why, it is something to do with the remote I think. All others are cfe.
Will look into kill a watt for sure!

We use only Ff flyer programs for cc (2) and have a zillion miles on them and pay off every month or two at the most. Platinum status. With the travel I do for work this perk saves what is left of my sanity. Never rack up interest.

This is why have always though i was a Frugal spender...we do al the cost cutting we can, coupons, sales, he comp shops the markets . Don't carry CC debt I buy all his clothes at Christmas at target and get him one higher end thing for his bday.he never needs new clothes during the year. Maybe one nice pair of shoes. Even my clothing budget now comes out to 1200 a year..200-300 each season ( which might just be one coat and a couple of scarfs in the winter) a couple of skirts and tanks in the summer and a couple of pairs of shoes a year. Flip flops are cheap for summer!

This is new spending as of last year when I knew cash would come in, without a hitch for 3 good solid years. I n e v e r go to a mall. Lived in jeans and t shirts for years but now need a wardrobe, which has been fun i admit. and different.

The utilities are killing a big part of the budget. The rest I really can forgo. Ok..maybe a 12 pedi I can splurge on. One hour with no phone is heaven. And a no guilt read of a trash mag.

Gas electric phone internet and cable close to 1000 bucks? Thats not right, right? out of control?
Already DH is shopping cable and seeing if going to just a vm on the home phone is an option..use cell only for outgoing. Even though we can write all of these things off.

It's hard to give up a landline...and we have two at home... I am going to dump the biz line .
two dsl lines , .in case one goes down. he works in computer training stuff and and we have double everything....somehow this supposidly gives us a discount? but at 147 this month..does not feel like it.

Going to have the elect and gas co's to check for leaks or shorts or some something. Rates really Increased when they installed the new digital box last year for electric.
Never have I seen electric bills this high in the winter. Gas heat..yet the electric is off the charts and the stat is set to 67 at night 69 in the morning..off during the day...and I live I Cali where we've had a pretty mild couple of months.

Anyone here utilize solar? Last I checked the cash outlay was huge and would take years to payback. Wonder if its worth looking at again.

 

[rodi]

new windows and doors in a 100 year old house..20 of them. The other 20 were replaced 10 years ago with a lifetime guarantee. So this should be our last set of windows, ever.

Just an FYI - in CA lifetime warranty or guarantee does NOT mean forever. It's limited by the fine print. CA law says it has to be at least 3 years. Yep - in CA lifetime means at least 3 years... and maybe that's it.

We're in process of putting in new windows, pretty high end ones, and had our eyes opened to the lack of substance in the warranties.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

You actually don't have to give up the land line funcitonality. One lower cost option is to just get Ooma and port the number to there.

For cable the cable providers usually have specials every 1 year to 6 months so you often have to go in and ask for the latest specials, otherwise they just silently raise the rates on everyone who doesn't complain.

Your energy company might have some online tools so you can track your energy use hour by hour, gas or electric. I personally would not do the solar where you get hooked up to the electric company. The pay back is too long for us to make the numbers work. If you can get your electricity usage down to 10 - 20 KW a day or less your electric bill probably won't be much even without solar panels. Or you can make some of your own economy solar power just with panels and solar products you can buy from Amazon and Walmart. I bought rechargeable batteries, a solar powered battery charger and some small appliances that can run on batteries for some free electricity use.

Your energy and water utilities might have some free programs like free low flow shower heads, aerators and energy audits. Just look on their web sites and see what you can get. Our water company will partially fund front yard lawn xeriscaping.

If for you every 1K less run rate = 60K less needed in taxable earnings, if you want to ER soon and don't already have millions in the bank, every little cut on a recurring cost has a huge impact.

 

[panhead]

Panhead--LOL. You grasp the situation perfectly. The only thing I am really struggling with is the 2nd rental. That place is a perfect place to partially ER. A two week stay in the same area would cost as much as 2 months at the rental. Granted it only clears 800.00 now but I am not really marketing it much and can do much more. It's a special place to us and is not costing a dime. The flip side of course, is selling it too, and having no mortgage. but never ever being able to buy anything again in retirement with no real chunk of income coming in, that's a scary thought for me too.

Turn this rental over to a management company. They will keep it rented and you will still make money on it. There will be some up-front work finding the right management company (one you can trust, and one that at least cares a little bit about your interests) but then it will be mostly hands off. When the two years is up and if at that time your RE funds are in place and you decide to RE, you will likely need to put some $$ into it, but you will still have it. Sell your current house to generate more $$ for RE and move into this place and call it a career.

occam's razor.....

-Pan

 

[citrine]

Whew! I hung in there are read every post in this thread

RY...I am glad that you took the initiative to post and invite us in for feedback. However, one of the best things you can do for yourself right now is to forget about the friends part and think of it as business. If you are not the CEO/CFO, then do you really have to stay there? If you are an "employee" only, then leave and start up somewhere else! I also don't understand why/how the others were able to negotiate a salary of 100K for a few hours of work....that blows my mind.
I am glad you are getting your paperwork together, thinking/doing things to save money.
I am still a little confused and my head hurts...but I wish you all the best!

 

[ERD50]

... you can make some of your own economy solar power just with panels and solar products you can buy from Amazon and Walmart. I bought rechargeable batteries, a solar powered battery charger and some small appliances that can run on batteries for some free electricity use. ...

I'd be interested in seeing some numbers that show an actual payback on that. I am far more than skeptical, compared to charging those batteries from the wall. A typical AA might have ~ 2 Watt-hours of energy. At a typical 10 cents per KWh from the wall, that is $0.1 x (2/1000) or (if I tracked the decimal places properly) $.0002, or 0.02 cents of energy to recharge the battery (OK, double, triple, quadruple that for inefficiencies).

Payback?

-ERD50

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Hi, RY,

On the income side, the advice to seek legal counsel sounds like a very good idea.

Since it is very business-related, consider making an appointment with Service Corps for Retired Executives (SCORE). I have found them to be an amazing resource, but YMMV. From an outsider, it looks like a specialist's issue.

On the family side, I suggest family conferences about major changes. Personally, I recommend: Stop spending! Right now! Pump the savings into savings. Prepare for 'The End' (in a manner of speaking). This is stuff that you really need to discuss with your family. It sounds like you are not sharing enough with them. Make a plan. Make a Plan A and a Plan B. Brainstorm the issue with your family. You already understand that major changes are in order. Make them yourself, or have them made for you. That would not be a nice thing.

Panhead's suggestions merit serious consideration. Really.

Something has to change. Either you make the changes or something will make them for you. You are obviously intelligent and strong...but you can break. In California-speak, the paradigm will change. Change before you get changed.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Re-reading some of this--Please do not focus on the minutia. Go big picture. Don't sweat the small stuff right now. Go green after you bail. Sell everything and move to Nevada. (Just kidding; take a deep breath and maintain perspective.)

 

[heeyy_joe]

I am so glad to know of the antagonistic relationship already exists with the partners, as your next moves will not make anything worse.

Hire a lawyer that specializes in mediation. Bring everyone to the table, form a two to five year business plan that ensures your exit from the company, and gives you more time away from work immediately.

If the other partners balk, sell the vacation/rentals for a cash cushion, bring in your own hand picked replacement to take your place and reduce your own pay by the amount your replacement is being paid, essentially becoming a mentor and consultant.

If you are indeed the FACE of the company, it is time your partners do an "about-face" or see their cozy deal start to shrivel up and die.

Begin reducing your stress today, hire a MEDIATOR. Best, Joe.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I'd be interested in seeing some numbers that show an actual payback on that. I am far more than skeptical, compared to charging those batteries from the wall. A typical AA might have ~ 2 Watt-hours of energy. At a typical 10 cents per KWh from the wall, that is $0.1 x (2/1000) or (if I tracked the decimal places properly) $.0002, or 0.02 cents of energy to recharge the battery (OK, double, triple, quadruple that for inefficiencies).

Payback?

-ERD50

The payback is different for every appliance and it depends on your electricity cost per hour, appliance costs, kw usage per hour per appliance, battery costs, etc. This instructable has some of the basic ideas on small scale, DIY solar -

Independant (non-grid-intertie) solar electric system

 

[nwsteve]

Another option to giving-up your landline is to drop less than a couple hundred bucks and get a device like the Ooma. There is a thread on the board that provides your particulars. I saw the latest version at Costco for 180, I believe.
I converted my business landline and paid for the device and the one year's Premier Service (gives you two phone lines) in the first two months. "Rides" off your router and the internet you are already paying for. Ooma will transfer your land line numbers to their device and your callers will never no the difference. Comes with voice mail and call forwarding as well as other useful features like call block.
Nwsteve
PS--sorry missed day late DS posts--all I can say is AMEN

 

[ready yesterday]

Thanks Everyone. I met with my planner TODAY to really good news! I will spare you the minutia, but I had missed an account with a nice chunk in there..my fault for missing it. It's close to another hundred grand now(!!!!) ..and has been earning between 8 10 percent over the last three quarters. That was just what I needed ..something concrete, just a slice of good news and growing. He said the "snowball effect" had really been kicking in finally, over the past year. We talked in depth every six months and he was the one who urged me to take the mortgage while rates were low, despite the pain of parting with all that cash. My old mort was a useless trap I went for with a Hail Mary no doc loan to buy that rental. While my friends have lost homes, I am still lucky to have not lost anything despite the awful timing and cost of that. 7.25? Interest only.

My friend who is a lawyer is working with me to find the right sort of lawyer for me not to necessarily sue, but to know my options in two years.

He agreed that I am tied to the contract but at the same time, I am not tied to my payment agreement via any documentation. So one never knows what I will do with this info.

And Rodi, our windows seem to honestly be lifetime. A few years ago we had a leak between the panes of double pane picture window which caused it to cloud up. The company that installed them was out of business but the manufacturer replaced it with no problem and no fight. Yes, I was shocked too. Brand new 12x10 or so window.
They swear if a baseball goes through it they will replace. Now that, I don't want to test.

I have heard about but not tested of Ooma. I had no idea you could keep your number? That's fantastic.
I Use Skype for international, but it has its limitations as I am sure you have all found.

for those who have missed it..and that is understood because this is a looooooong thread, the majority of the spending has been done and necessary as my house was falling apart with age.
and the work was done because I knew I had three solid years of income coming in to replenish the depleted savings.
I am exhausted from all of this work and so quickly. your advice has been a lot to take in, but I am taking it in and I am really amazed at the help! Amazed!

One more question. ( and thanks for the solar thoughts)
Since the mortgage is 3.2 ish and the return rate on investments has not fallen lower than 6 percent in the last few years, my advisor recommended paying down some of but not refinancing a lower mortgage again, if the rental sells. the other option would be to invest the proceeds and use that growth to pay the mortgage. On paper it makes sense, pay a 3.2 percent loan with proceeds coming in from a 6 percent yield. but there seems to be something magic about having no mortgage at all. Despite the obvious reason, having no mortgage must feel great, is there a train of thought to pay it down through money earned while invested elsewhere?

And in closing...heeeey joe. You are so right. I have nothing to lose, as most of our relationships are shot. The friendships are gone. Sad but true. Love to thank you all by screen name, but I am mouthy ( wordy) enough as it is.

 

[ready yesterday]

As a ps..yes it's almost 4 am. I don't work until tomorow afternoon, so this is my me time tonight. I have run and rerun and RERUN every variable on firecalc. Now that I know how it works. I have been missing pages, (which sounds like a recurring theme in my life these days I have been unable to make it fail at 60 grand a year for 30 years.
Between portfolio balance now, plus savings, plus big savings for the next two years including 22500 per year for 401k and saving 60 grand a year, (oh heck yes I can) rental income from the one propery I like, selling the other, plus ssi at 62, I cannot make this fail. Not once. My knowledge is lacking in PPI, CPI AND INFLATION CHOICES. I like the bernicke plan theory and don't know if that is true but it makes seve as my old cars are still running at over 15 years old..no reason to think I will need a new car, and outside of the 26000 budgeted for final house plans, I can't find major spending outside of health, that I can't control (thanks to your thoughts on Ooma and cable specials, and maybe a cell blocker to confound that electric meter) But running every variable I can think of, it still works at 100 percent every time. Is that possible?

 

[ready yesterday]

Oh..wrong retirement date. Oops. I must be beat. Off to bed!

 

[pb4uski]

.....One more question. ( and thanks for the solar thoughts)
Since the mortgage is 3.2 ish and the return rate on investments has not fallen lower than 6 percent in the last few years, my advisor recommended paying down some of but not refinancing a lower mortgage again, if the rental sells. the other option would be to invest the proceeds and use that growth to pay the mortgage. On paper it makes sense, pay a 3.2 percent loan with proceeds coming in from a 6 percent yield. but there seems to be something magic about having no mortgage at all. Despite the obvious reason, having no mortgage must feel great, is there a train of thought to pay it down through money earned while invested elsewhere?......

You have opened a hornet's nest with this question. I suggest rather than derail this thread with this question that you do a search of other threads that have exhaustively deliberated this question.

In short, while on paper it makes sense to keep the mortgage if your investments can earn more than the interest you pay on the mortgage, you are taking a risk that the investments may underperform and the return will be less than what you pay and many people like the additional peace of mind of having a lower or paid off mortgage.

 

[ERD50]

The payback is different for every appliance and it depends on your electricity cost per hour, appliance costs, kw usage per hour per appliance, battery costs, etc. This instructable has some of the basic ideas on small scale, DIY solar -

Independant (non-grid-intertie) solar electric system

I don't want to derail this thread on this, it's already long and active, I probably should not have even replied here. I'll just close out by saying that I know how to do it, my question was how this could be even remotely cost effective. But if we wish to discuss, I think it would be best for you or I to start a separate thread.

Thanks - ERD50

 

[ready yesterday]

Sorry about that. Please disregard and I will search. I forgot there is a wealth of knowledge on other threads too.

 

[ready yesterday]

Hello and just a quick update. Thanks to much of your advice I have grown a pair. Not easy for a lady. I have found out JUST HOW IMPORTANT my partners understand and understood all along but would not admit, that I am.
I have negotiated...no..demanded more money, and have received. I now how 7 weeks vacation and a 3.5 day work week.
I have cut my spending with a steak knife or more like an ax. One property has an offer in the works. I am not convinced of a sale, but at least I know there is interest. We have fired the gardener, we have curtailed BS spending. We have high deductible low cost insurance for the husband. Obama care may bring better rates next year. I have cut out facials, I have not been out shopping for clothes since April. I use Suave on my hair. I have upped the savings to between 1/4 to 1/3 of my monthly income!! There is so much more. My partners have been FORCED to pick up the slack. I have far more energy. Much less stress.

I have the paperwork but the lawyer did not work out. Long story. At this rate I find it hard to make FIREcalc fail more than 21 percent of the time. That is the very worst I can do. Thank you For all of your inout. much was hard to take, much was so helpful. I am not done. It has only been a few months, but I can honestly say my life, even while working has changed for so much the better. I think I can do this.

 

[MichaelB]

Nice update! What a transformation.

 

[chris2008]

Thanks for the update. You have made great progress. Carry on!

 

[ERD50]

Hello and just a quick update.
....

I have found out JUST HOW IMPORTANT my partners understand and understood all along but would not admit, that I am.

I have negotiated...no..demanded more money, and have received. I now how 7 weeks vacation and a 3.5 day work week.

.... I have upped the savings to between 1/4 to 1/3 of my monthly income!! There is so much more. My partners have been FORCED to pick up the slack. I have far more energy. Much less stress.

.... I am not done. It has only been a few months, but I can honestly say my life, even while working has changed for so much the better.

Fantastic! Congrats!

I think I can do this.

OK, you still have a little work to do. You meant to say "I KNOW I can do this.", right?

This calls for dragging out one of the great Rock&Roll lines of all times (there are lots of them). From the Eagle's hit "Already Gone", written by Jack Tempchin and Robb Strandlund:

So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains
And we never even know we have the key...

And I'm feelin' strong
I will sing this vict'ry song, woo, hoo,hoo,woo,hoo,hoo ​

Already Gone The Eagles - YouTube


-ERD50

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Great job! We have been doing a similar analysis over our budget, work hours, money vs free time, to improve the quality of our lives. We are sorry we didn't do all that years earlier. But better late than never, right?

 

[FIREd]

Hello and just a quick update. Thanks to much of your advice I have grown a pair. Not easy for a lady. I have found out JUST HOW IMPORTANT my partners understand and understood all along but would not admit, that I am.
I have negotiated...no..demanded more money, and have received. I now how 7 weeks vacation and a 3.5 day work week.
I have cut my spending with a steak knife or more like an ax. One property has an offer in the works. I am not convinced of a sale, but at least I know there is interest. We have fired the gardener, we have curtailed BS spending. We have high deductible low cost insurance for the husband. Obama care may bring better rates next year. I have cut out facials, I have not been out shopping for clothes since April. I use Suave on my hair. I have upped the savings to between 1/4 to 1/3 of my monthly income!! There is so much more. My partners have been FORCED to pick up the slack. I have far more energy. Much less stress.

I have the paperwork but the lawyer did not work out. Long story. At this rate I find it hard to make FIREcalc fail more than 21 percent of the time. That is the very worst I can do. Thank you For all of your inout. much was hard to take, much was so helpful. I am not done. It has only been a few months, but I can honestly say my life, even while working has changed for so much the better. I think I can do this.

I'm very happy for you. I'm glad to see that you decisively took charge of your own life. More power to you!