Burn Out-Finances Longest intro in History?

The OP's wholw post is a bit confusing to me and the situation doesn't seem plausible. I smell a rat. Why would someone who is obviously smart enough to run a successful business for 15 years doesn't understand her recourse? If she is the back bone of the co, couldn't she call the shots? Why would she be worried about being replaced if she is integral to the success of the co? If she b
 
I hope it's not annoying that I keep answering all of your questions like this---but it's the only way we can keep track. Ok here is one thing I left out--which explains, I hope why I cannot just retreat right at this very moment. Our company, which is a c-corp, (and how embarrassed now would i be if it is not, but it is, it is a c-corp), has a contract with a LARGER company, which we MUST fulfull for two more years. This company, I don't think would give a rats patootie if I took 8 weeks of vacation, I belive they would simply schedule around my schedule, but I cannot just walk. I must fulfill this contract for two more years or so. I do not want to start over, I honestly just want to ER at the end of this contract. Of course making my life a bit more managabl in the next two years is also on the table. I do have a financial planner, in fact i have another meeting with him in the next two weeks. I also have a real estate agent. We just do not want this property to linger in the market so we are waiting for the right time to pounce and right at this very second does not seem to be the right time. Values in the area are rebounding, but not to what we would like, which may never happen, I know. We are not suffering financially at all with that propery, I just need it off the table.

We have not looked into insurance yet for the DH as of COURSE the partners say no (they have theirs through their JOBS and none are married). All of our employees are insured, but none are married. This is one of our biggest worries, of course, but DH feels invincible....

Both of us have found going to the rx without insurance is quite managable as some doctors will adjust their rates, but catostrophic is a whole different ballgame.
 
ready yesterday said:
My partners provide a lot of what is needed to keep the company running (combined they do the job of one and a half employees, i fear). But starting over would be starting over, and at this point, I just dont think I am up to it. But that you SO much, i do appreciate your respose.
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Iniitially I was going to tell you to quit being a pushover and stand up for your rights. Instead how about this?..........So what happens to the company and the employees if something happens to you and you can't work? Are the partners all gonna let the entire company fail and go down the toilet or will they man up and make it work without you? There is only one person who can decide whether you are going to go in to work tomorrow and that is you. Come to think of it you look like you have the flu and you should stay away from work for the next two weeks. I am a nurse and I know what I am talking about.:LOL:
 
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Really. a rat? What in the world would cause someonen to write a post THAT long as an introduction?

I explained that we started this company as a lark when we were all in our 30s and never expected this to explode like this. So basically I admit to being VERY smart at what I do and the role that I play, but I am not so smart about business. I never have been, which is why I never want to do this again. Being a business owner is hard and it's never ending. I think if you ask most business owners they may say the same thing. Or, I admit, I may be doing it wrong. When you start a business with friends, you never, or I never thought or said "I am more important than you are". We were FRIENDS.

Rodi--I may have mis typed or you may have misread--i CAN easily give up the clothes (where would i wear them?) the mani/pedis and the candles and flowers. Oh I just want to tend to my garden. I love my garden. I just cannot give up the hair due to medical issue or botox. Although with less stress who knows--maybe less frown lines?
 
It sounds like your 'partners' may see you more as an employee than an equal partner. There is no way that I'd let partners, who contribute less than me to a business, dictate how many weeks of holidays I could take. I can see them imposing 2 weeks max for a regular employee, but you are NOT a regular employee. You need to make that clear. At the very least, you should be taking 5 weeks of vacation a year as a partner of the business. If they want to set an example to the rest of the employees, then tell them to start working at the company with only 2 weeks of vacation.

In otherwords, I agree with other posters that suggest you do some due-dilligence to be able to negotiate with your partners from a position of strength. Good luck!
 
jclarksnakes, I really do not know what would happen. I know one partner is the most qualified to take over my job, and although not ideal, it could run for a while with him in my place or the concept would change completly.

I know that every single one of us is replacable. As long as the company makes money the company would stay in business, at least for now, even if the quality is different.
I am trying to think of a good analogy to what I do

Let's say I am an author, a motivational speaker or a therapist or Dr who has a specialiy surgical technique that I have to lecture on or do surgery a special way and people pay for me, Dr Oz, or Dr Phil or who ever the Dr of the Day is. I have this job so I am the face or the hands or the voice of the company.

Is Dr Oz still in demand if one of his interns is seeing you? That's the sort of job that I have.

My friends and now partners (in theory) had the contacts in the hospitals or arenas, one had a background in advertising, one an accountant, one an agent and so on and so forth. That is how we all got together in the first place. So they all hold me up, but the weight on them is distributed amongst themselves is far less weight than what I carry when I do my job. Like a mosh pit of holding up a singer until they make it to the stage.
 
CDN the biggest laugh of ALL is that my partners do not TAKE vacation from the company. One goes to Florida all the time, but is able to telecompute his 2 hours of work while on vacation. Or so he says. There is no way to track a time card with any of them. I am screwed...and I let it happen.
 
So, ah. with 500,00 in the bank combined with a a mortgage payment of 1500.00, half of that paid by the rental property. enough to retire on?
or
a 2900 payment on a morgage with 800.00 of that paid by the rental, with 850,000 in the bank enough to retire on? or live on from age 56 to 62 and a half.
 
I think that kind of planning requires complex calculations like you will find in Firecalc or the Fidelity Retirement Planner. First you need a detailed budget that includes health insurance costs and deductibles for both of you. You also need to know what your household SS benefits will be, and it will be less than what is shown on your statements if you retire early, so you have to run the numbers at the SS site.
 
Thanks! I guess I could have just broken it down to something that simple, out of frustration I just wanted to get it all out. I learned a few things too...in a very short amount of time. I will keep you posted and keep looking around to find out more about how you are all planning and doing what you're doing.
 
Letj said:
The OP's wholw post is a bit confusing to me and the situation doesn't seem plausible. I smell a rat. Why would someone who is obviously smart enough to run a successful business for 15 years doesn't understand her recourse? If she is the back bone of the co, couldn't she call the shots? Why would she be worried about being replaced if she is integral to the success of the co? If she b
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You seem to have cut yourself off. Anything you would like to add?
 
ready yesterday said:
jclarksnakes, I really do not know what would happen. I know one partner is the most qualified to take over my job, and although not ideal, it could run for a while with him in my place or the concept would change completly.

I know that every single one of us is replacable. As long as the company makes money the company would stay in business, at least for now, even if the quality is different.
I am trying to think of a good analogy to what I do

Let's say I am an author, a motivational speaker or a therapist or Dr who has a specialiy surgical technique that I have to lecture on or do surgery a special way and people pay for me, Dr Oz, or Dr Phil or who ever the Dr of the Day is. I have this job so I am the face or the hands or the voice of the company.

Is Dr Oz still in demand if one of his interns is seeing you? That's the sort of job that I have.

My friends and now partners (in theory) had the contacts in the hospitals or arenas, one had a background in advertising, one an accountant, one an agent and so on and so forth. That is how we all got together in the first place. So they all hold me up, but the weight on them is distributed amongst themselves is far less weight than what I carry when I do my job. Like a mosh pit of holding up a singer until they make it to the stage.
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Okay that was a very convoluted way for you to tell us you are somebody special. What you are not telling us is why you feel you have to be a pushover and let your partners bully you. If you are as important to the business as you say you are then you have enormous leverage and should be able to use it to make your partners do their share and give you a break. Methinks you actually enjoy the situation you are in.
 
What is it that makes you think that? The thank you's for the informative posts? Or the stressful spilling of my guts to complete strangers?

I tried to be informative upfront, to explain why I can't just walk away and how I got here. Which is nothing to be proud of and i was looking for help from people who have been lucky and smart enough to do the right thing thing and have been able to RE.
I don't think I am important, I am just tring to be explain why I can't walk away right now. If I knew the names of important scientists or diplomats or artist or ?I would have used those, so I tried to use people who's names might be recognizable as comon ground.
Did you delete the post where you said I might be too nice or too weak? I got a notice but can't find the post. As much as that got my attention, and was ready to respond, I think it was a better choice of words than your assuption that I enjoy this situation.

If you mean that I am enjoying the feed back I am getting, you are correct. It is not everyday that I am able to talk about RE when so many people are looking at the prospect of working until the day they die.
 
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These statements from 2 posts seem contradictory:

ready yesterday said:

I can't find any info online and have not consulted a lawyer as I have no paperwork to show one. If there is paperwork associated with this, I am in the dark. (stupid youth) .
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We do have a formal partnership agreement and file as a c-corp with articles of incorporation. Our salaries differ but our shares are equal. As far as I know there are no articles that provide for succession. I will dig those out and see what I can do--thank you for the VERY concise advice on who to see and what to look for.
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That is, it appears that you do have paperwork. You have articles and you have a partnership agreement. It is possible that you do not have all of the relevant documents.

That is, however, no reason not to consult an attorney. Attorneys are actually used to dealing with clients who don't have all the relevant documents.

To be clear, you need to consult with an attorney. My suggestion is to do so as soon as possible. Many of the questions that you ask are legal questions. An attorney who is licensed in your state can help you.

As to how to find an attorney, I will tell you how I would do it if I wasn't an attorney (since I am one I would ask other attorneys that I know for recommendations).

1. Ask people for recommendations. In general, prioritize asking people who might know someone who is a business or corporate attorney. So, ask other business owners. If you know any attorneys (I assume you don't or you would have done this already), you can ask for recommendations. Bear in mind, however, that an attorney who doesn't work with businesses may not actually know who to refer you to.

2. Collect as many names as you can collect. If you are lucky, may the same person will get recommended to you multiple times (that is more likely to happy if you live in a smaller town than in a big city).

3. If it as me, I would look up on Google every name I received. I would check with the State Bar association to see what information is available. Google is great to research attorneys. Sometimes you might find an article the person has written on a relevant subject or may find other relevant information.

4. If none of that worked and I couldn't get any recommendations and I just had to find someone with no feedback from others then I would probably do something like this. I would look up large law firms in my area, the larger the better and would find the areas of practice and look for business/corporate partners. Then I would do research them as I described in 3 above. As an attorney, I would do this through looking at Martindale Hubbell. Occasionally I've had to find an attorney in a place where I had no contacts and could find no contacts from anyone else I know and that is exactly what I did. I looked up the area in Martindale Hubbell and found the largest firms in the area and looked for someone with the expertise I wanted. By the way, I am not saying that the only competent attorneys work for large law firms. Many very competent attorneys work for smaller firms. However, if I was going in cold with no recommendations. I would start with a partner in a large law firm.

5. Once you have narrowed your list down to several, go and consult with them. Many attorneys will do an initial consultation without charging you, however, ask in advance. Don't just talk to one. If it was me, I would want to talk to at least 3 and maybe more.

On another note -- I think you are putting things at huge risk by not obtaining private health insurance for your husband. I would make doing that a priority. It will be easier next year, but I would make the attempt now.

CYA: I'm not your lawyer. You need to find your own lawyer in your own state.
 
Thank you kats! We do have articles of incorporation, stating president, vp, CEO, secretary etc. I do not remember anything other than that, meaning actual job description..nothing beyond our titles.
I do agree that I probably do not have ALL of the paperwork, I have the taxes, which of course just lay out what we made and paid, but nothing with each partners job description. Those may actually, embarrassingly, not exist. I tried to get all of us to do these, back when we were all just broke friends, on snd off for a few years ...no one did and there was only so many times I could beat my head against the wall.

I have been great on the work end, but awful on the business end...as more than on person has pointed out. I really am SO bad at the business end that some here doubt my story. Imagine what it's like to admit something like this to someone you know.

I actually do know a couple of attorneys, I have been too embarrassed to admit a lot of this for years, and of course do not want to be repped by a friend or acquaintance.

I will ask around though, thank you. Just talking about this after an exhaustive explosive week (i started writing my intro on Friday night on the tail end of of a nightmarish 7 days, again) has been not just therapeutic but has lead to so much obvious information that I should have considered years and years ago.

Thank you for the tips. I will call my favorite lawyer friend tomorrow who may know someone in my area, and start there, and follow your point by point directions.

I honest to god have been so overwhelmed I have not known where to start. So thank you for a starting place.

I will also revisit the DH insurance. We are thinking catastrophic only ..as he has been to a dr once or twice in all the years I have known him..and his years of having no insurance I think is going to put his premiums thru the roof.
As my promise of being shorter in my posts, flies right out the window. :)
 
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ready yesterday said:
You seem to have cut yourself off. Anything you would like to add?
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I did and using a cell phone doesn't help. Reading through the rest of your posts, I think I get it. What it really looks like is that you have trouble standing up for yourself. You seem paralized by fear but to get this all straight, you need to confront your partners and work with a lawyer on the best way to get out of the one-sided situation. It seemed to me that at the very least, you should be paid a salary in addition to profit sharing. Seems to me that with the other partners getting 100k to do very little while you don't get much more than that is quite odd.
 
I don't minimize the importance of legal advice, but their valuable services come at a price. Katsmeow has no doubt given good shopping advice.

But here's a question for you, before you start dialing the phone. Who will the lawyer be working for, you or the corporation? Your whole post is about your interests diverging from those of the partners. A good lawyer will be sensitive to avoiding conflicts of interest in providing his services (unlike the accountant / partner?).

Other thoughts on why it may be less than optimal to start with a lawyer...With so many open issues and questions on the business structure, you'll spend a fair amount of upfront time (and money) on document review, strategy development and other non-legal matters. Second, there will be inevitable conflicts to be resolved during the workout of your business relationship with the partners. Without painting the brush strokes too broadly, let's just say that some lawyers might see the prospect of resolving differences at the courthouse as more valuable to his / her bottom line. I think you want to have at least the outline of a plan for a successful workout in mind before sitting down with a lawyer.

So what's the alternative for taking action now? Not being in a small business, I can't offer specific experiences. My thought is that you need a personal business mentor, someone who can assist you with the goal-setting and development of strategic alternatives for exiting your role in the business.

SCORE seem to fit the bill. I know nothing about this organization other than it is associated with SBA and they have been around a long time:
Free Small Business Advice | How-to Resources | Tools | Templates | SCORE

There may also be a university business school in your area that provides some sort of workshop or "clinic" services for startups and small businesses. The idea would be to tap into a resource that would help to define your issues and challenges in a way that allows a lawyer to zero in on the professional legal advice and tasks.

In either case, I'm guessing they might welcome the chance to talk with someone other than underfunded startup entrepreneurs seeking to become a millionaire by inventing widgets in their garage.

Idea number 2: start having a periodic, attendance required business meeting of all the partners. With minutes. There's much less of a chance that you'll find common ground on the evolution of the business structure by trading e-mails and one-on-one phone calls.

Idea Number 3: Talk to an insurance agent. The generic advice is that the family breadwinner needs sufficient disability and life coverage to provide a smooth path for the family if disaster strikes. But here's another potential twist: get the partners involved after you determine what it will take to protect your own interests. If you are as critical to the organization as you say, then it may be in their interest to have the company buy some additional coverages. Perhaps the way you could approach it is: "We've got a good thing going here, but we're all at risk if partners or key employees become unable to work. Let's have someone come in and give us an assessment." Where I'm headed with this is both practical and strategic. First, it's always good to manage risk. But the side benefit might be that you would establish a third-party assessment of the relative contributions of the various partners' role in the organization and their value to the partnership?

Just brainstorming...
 
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ready yesterday said:
So, ah. with 500,00 in the bank combined with a a mortgage payment of 1500.00, half of that paid by the rental property. enough to retire on?
or
a 2900 payment on a morgage with 800.00 of that paid by the rental, with 850,000 in the bank enough to retire on? or live on from age 56 to 62 and a half.
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I would run through the various calculators... fire calc, fidelity RIP, financial engines, quicken lifetime planner, i-orp.

I also am concerned that your goal is to get to SS draw but your spending seems higher than what you'll bring in for SS.

Just as an example - our nest egg is between 2 and 3 times your $500k, we have rental income of $1200/mo... but our numbers don't really work till we get rid of our mortgage. I'm only 3 years younger than you and my husband is almost at SS age. Until you run the calculators... you won't know if it's doable. Until you know your budget and whether you can live in a tighter budget, you won't know if it's doable. Nothing is scarier than being broke and past working age.
 
ready yesterday said:
We have not looked into insurance yet for the DH as of COURSE the partners say no (they have theirs through their JOBS and none are married). All of our employees are insured, but none are married. This is one of our biggest worries, of course, but DH feels invincible....

Both of us have found going to the rx without insurance is quite managable as some doctors will adjust their rates, but catostrophic is a whole different ballgame.
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Welcome. That's a fascinating intro.

The quote above stands out to me. So, you are pulling in 16k per month, but you don't know "where the hell" was going. Congrats on the rest of your post, because it sounds like you are making good progress on that. That's a great start!

And then there is the partnership legal stuff. I'll leave that to someone else as they discuss it.

But the above. Before you ER, you need to get DH taken care of. What if DH slips and breaks a femur and is hospitalized for 2 weeks (I've seen that happen). Worse, what if DH needs open heart surgery?

Mercy me, ready yesterday, you are playing with fire, especially at this age -- I assume DH is 50-something. Get DH some catastrophic coverage pronto, then get the rest of your affairs in order.

That's my first take.
 
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As far as the rentals go, I find it useful to calculate the return of investment based on anticipated final sale proceeds. For instance, let's say you net 12 grand from your 300k rental. That's a return of 4%. plus you need to add anticipated appreciation of say 3% for a total return of 7%. Do this exercise every year for each property.
 
This has been an interesting, if not convoluted post. The op appears to be very distraught, and I can see why. I have friends that own small business, most are family businesses and the conflicts are similar to what you indicate here. So, my advice:

Suck it up!!!

Let me explain: you say you have 2 years left on this contract for the "large company" Do what you have to do for the next 2 years to fulfill it all the while working on your plans to RE (sell rentals, etc). Also during this time, find that lawyer to consult with so you understand your options and what happens if you leave your company, etc.

THEN: At the end of the 2 years, it appears the contract is over. Re-negotiate with your partners at this time (or when a new contract with the large company is being negotiated) to change your roll in the company to closer what they do. Prepare a business plan of how this is going to happen, hiring a replacement while you mentor them, whatever. Whatever happens, this HAS to be in writing and reviewed by your company attorney and your personal attorney (probably obvious).

Obviously without firmer details, I don't know if this is feasible or if it even makes sense, but from what you wrote, it fits the problem. You are stressed and want out now, but that ain't gonna happen with your current situation, you need to engineer either your exit or your new (lowered) responsibilites within the company.

...just my $.02...
 
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