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Burn Out-Finances Longest intro in History?
Old 03-10-2013, 07:36 PM   #1
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Burn Out-Finances Longest intro in History?

Hi-- I meant longest INTRO in history. Sorry.

I'll get right to it. Early Retirees inspire me and I thought I could be one years ago, until-a family illness took most of my would be inheritance.


From what I understand , we in the U.S. are about the only nation of people who ask, in horror, of people who plan not to work (even for a summer) 'what will you DO?”
Large parts of the world think we are nuts, living with just two weeks vacation (if that) every year. We are a stressed out nation and I am a victim of that.


I can't complain about how far I have come. I am 54, I own a business with partners, I own my own home and two out of area rental properties, together these ventures together bring me over 16,000 a month. Some months are large others are smaller but the average is 16,000 a month..I am never short of money in my pocket.


I am ashamed to admit that last night when I did the math, it was the first time I had ever sat down to figure out what I bring in monthly from my business and my rentals...and even more shockingly, what I spend.


What the hell am I doing with 16,000 a month and where is it going? I was saving just 10% of that income a month—which changed this year when I realized I could do much better than that (now that almost all home projects on the block have been complete)


Savings are only at 80,000 right now because I just used 140,000 and paid down my huge mortgage to get a rate half of what I was paying before, on an interest only mortgage. This change is saving me 1000 a month and at last I am paying down principle again.
I contribute a 22,500 a year in a 401K (244,000 balance).


I am burned out. As even in my own company, my own partners who outnumber me have shot down any thoughts of more than 2 weeks vaction a year. It would not be a “good example” for our employees, who also max out at 2. I add that I am the only partner who shows up to work on a daily basis for a full 8-10 hour day, and does 100 percent of the company travel. The others found other jobs and spend 8 hours a day or more at those jobs where they are employees, while possibly putting in 2 hours a day on the phone with our own company in sales and scheduling.


My goal is to retire in 2 years. I would like to sell one of the rental properties I earn about 1,500.00—2000.00 on average per month on this one- (sometimes as much as 3500.00 as it is a vacation rental )--but the upkeep is close to 1000.00 a month (mortgage, management, taxes, supplies, upkeep and update ...not to mention the stress—it's mostly the stress which I am trying to mimimize).


In a good market, if I can sell I may be able to clear 300,000 (actually in a good market 400,000 but I am trying to not be overly optomistic) and either pay down the mortgage or invest that money into something else (input is welcome).
It pays for itself but that's not enough when the stress is taken into consideration.


If I sell and pay down the mortgage with I hope, another low rate around 3--(i know this must happen soon) , our entire remaining mortgage payment of appx 300,000 could, at least, partially be paid by the rental of the other property that we will keep. It brings in appx 1000—1500 per month and costs appx 800.00 per month in mortgage, management, taxes and supplies. Leaving at least 800 to pay towards a 1500.00 (appx) mortgage payment. Much less stress with this property so we will keep it and use it part of the year in our ER


Another area where input is welcome. I won't go into what I do, but suffice it to say I am the “face” of the company. My presence is what makes the company what it is. This is not to toot my own horn, but it is the truth. My services are what is bought. No I am not a member of the worlds oldest profession.


In a perfect world, I would like someone else, most likely a new employee to step into this roll and I become a partner who participates just 2 hours a day in some capacity for the same nice chunk of change my partners receive ( close to 100,000 a year). I dont know if it's feasible. We set this business up 15 years ago, as friends, never ever thinking that we would have this sort of success. We were broke for a lot of those years, all holding down other jobs, full and part time. As friends in our 30's , we never set out 'rules' of who had to do what, how much time one had to put it, etc. When we started, we were just friends—joking around about getting rich and took a shot. I ignored all advice given to me on starting a company with friends. I could write a book about it. We are not friends anymore. We have quite an antagonistic relationship with one and other. Our accountant is also a partner. We rarely recieve our financial updates without weeks of hounding, although they all look clean. No one is willing to give and take in a discussion as we all believe that we all have alterior motives (which is most likely true). It is only a good situation finacially.


We have nothing on paper to designate our roles outside of officers of the company. We have no pension fund. We have no retirement plan outside of the 401K. I do not know if I can step out and have the company survive. I have 10 employees who would be jobless if I step out and the company is dissolved. It's quite guilt inducing to think of ER, and yet I cannot stop thinking about it.


I have run the FIRECALC with varying results. Highest is over 100 percent, lowest is 5.6 percent. There are so many variables. Sell or keep those rental properties, to keep them means money coming in , to sell means less money will need to be coming in.


My plan is to save, somehow, 50,000 this year and 50,000 next year..I have only been saving about 20,000 a year up to this point. ..My portfolio is doing reasonably well with appx $14,000 increase in the last five months.


I like having cash on hand, but my financial advisor likes 6 months in my hand and the rest in stocks. My savings account of course, pays next to nothing in interest.


In the two years remaining, I will add close to 45,000 in the 401K.
Pay off my car by December 2014. (500.00 per month)
I have close to Zero credit card debt ( I charge for FF miles and pay off every month or two).
I need to consolodiate our home phone, internet and cell accounts---those combined are 400.00 a month, which is ridiculous
Water/Power/Gas is around 300.00 to 400.00 per month.
Car Insurance appx 100.00 per month
Cable TV 125.00
We have budgeted 20,000 for a swimspa to use in ER and 6,000 to finish the last of our landscaping/drainage/fences issues at the home we live in.
health insurance which currently, is about 600.00 a month.


At this moment, my outflow of cash is about 7,000 per month.That shocked me.
2900.00 of that is the mortgage which carries all three properties.
I use 1500.00 a month from the rentals to pay half of that.
We have a 500 a month HOA, my home is worth about 900,000.00 and I have no desire to sell it. I have lived here 20 years and pay next to nothing in taxes thanks to Californias prop 13. If we downsized to something half the price this home is worth we would pay twice what we pay now in taxes if we stay in California, which is where we want to stay. I bought my house for 195,000 and my property taxes remain low.




BTW I use “we and I” a lot, interchangabley. my husband is a freelancer, bringing in only enough to cover groceries and a few other items. His ER was not planned and his unemployment ran out years ago. He has no health insurance and is not on mine. There is nothing on the horizon to point to this situation changing.


I am shooting for at least 500,000 before ER in the 401K porfolio and close to 200,000 on hand in savings or in a portfolio, and hope to have at least $800.00 free and clear to help pay the mortgage, before I can take SS at 62 and a half.


I know this is scattered—but my questions are---does anyone know what my options would be pulling out of my JOB roll at my c-corp. Is it possible, as a priciple, original monitary investor in the company can I salvage any sort of salary if the company survives? I dont t think my partners would buy me out.
I can't find any info online and have not consulted a lawyer as I have no paperwork to show one. If there is paperwork associated with this, I am in the dark. (stupid youth) Ask too many questions and the other partners start to pow-wow and wonder what the other is up to.


Is it possible to live with what I HOPE to be at least 500,000 for the 7.5 years it will take me to SSI? With a cash outflow which I hope to get down to of about 3,000 a month? I don't want to live like a pauper, but am willing to give up the few perks I allow myself. New clothing in every season, quite a bit of online impulse shopping and new furniture every year or two, jewelry, candles and fresh flowers by the DOZENS and new bedding/towels a few times a year—just to change my color scheme plus mani/pedis. I must keep 100 per month for hair appts (something medical will not pay for) and 1000 per year to retain some semblance of youth (when you are this stressed out botox is a girls best friend)
I now realize that I am not a frugal spender at all these past few years, something I have always prided myself on—I don't know when this all got out of control! I think I have been stress buying?
My apologies for the length and for treating this as a bit of a confessional. I know people who have retired early and none will share how much it took. I understand that but they are also the ones who tell me that I work too much and have to slow down. I agree with them completely.
I am open to any and all input. I am also enjoying reading the board and seeing how much you HELP other people. My head spins whenever I break out the calculator and try to do this myself.

Thanks in advance. I am ready yesterday, to retire jan 1, 2015. Just dont know if I can.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:18 PM   #2
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I tend to be much more concise with my posts. Welcome to the forum.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready yesterday View Post
Hi-- I meant longest INTRO in history. Sorry.
No problem! We changed the title since that is what you meant.

Welcome to the Early Retirement Forum. Good luck and I hope all goes as planned.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:29 PM   #4
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Welcome to the forum. I don't know whether you can RE, based on the information provided. You may wish to start by entering your numbers into FireCalc.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready yesterday View Post
Hi-- I meant longest INTRO in history. Sorry.

I'll get right to it. Early Retirees inspire me and I thought I could be one years ago, until-a family illness took most of my would be inheritance.


From what I understand , we in the U.S. are about the only nation of people who ask, in horror, of people who plan not to work (even for a summer) 'what will you DO?”
Large parts of the world think we are nuts, living with just two weeks vacation (if that) every year. We are a stressed out nation and I am a victim of that.


I can't complain about how far I have come. I am 54, I own a business with partners, I own my own home and two out of area rental properties, together these ventures together bring me over 16,000 a month. Some months are large others are smaller but the average is 16,000 a month..I am never short of money in my pocket.


I am ashamed to admit that last night when I did the math, it was the first time I had ever sat down to figure out what I bring in monthly from my business and my rentals...and even more shockingly, what I spend.


What the hell am I doing with 16,000 a month and where is it going? I was saving just 10% of that income a month—which changed this year when I realized I could do much better than that (now that almost all home projects on the block have been complete)


Savings are only at 80,000 right now because I just used 140,000 and paid down my huge mortgage to get a rate half of what I was paying before, on an interest only mortgage. This change is saving me 1000 a month and at last I am paying down principle again.
I contribute a 22,500 a year in a 401K (244,000 balance).


I am burned out. As even in my own company, my own partners who outnumber me have shot down any thoughts of more than 2 weeks vaction a year. It would not be a “good example” for our employees, who also max out at 2. I add that I am the only partner who shows up to work on a daily basis for a full 8-10 hour day, and does 100 percent of the company travel. The others found other jobs and spend 8 hours a day or more at those jobs where they are employees, while possibly putting in 2 hours a day on the phone with our own company in sales and scheduling.


My goal is to retire in 2 years. I would like to sell one of the rental properties I earn about 1,500.00—2000.00 on average per month on this one- (sometimes as much as 3500.00 as it is a vacation rental )--but the upkeep is close to 1000.00 a month (mortgage, management, taxes, supplies, upkeep and update ...not to mention the stress—it's mostly the stress which I am trying to mimimize).


In a good market, if I can sell I may be able to clear 300,000 (actually in a good market 400,000 but I am trying to not be overly optomistic) and either pay down the mortgage or invest that money into something else (input is welcome).
It pays for itself but that's not enough when the stress is taken into consideration.


If I sell and pay down the mortgage with I hope, another low rate around 3--(i know this must happen soon) , our entire remaining mortgage payment of appx 300,000 could, at least, partially be paid by the rental of the other property that we will keep. It brings in appx 1000—1500 per month and costs appx 800.00 per month in mortgage, management, taxes and supplies. Leaving at least 800 to pay towards a 1500.00 (appx) mortgage payment. Much less stress with this property so we will keep it and use it part of the year in our ER


Another area where input is welcome. I won't go into what I do, but suffice it to say I am the “face” of the company. My presence is what makes the company what it is. This is not to toot my own horn, but it is the truth. My services are what is bought. No I am not a member of the worlds oldest profession.


In a perfect world, I would like someone else, most likely a new employee to step into this roll and I become a partner who participates just 2 hours a day in some capacity for the same nice chunk of change my partners receive ( close to 100,000 a year). I dont know if it's feasible. We set this business up 15 years ago, as friends, never ever thinking that we would have this sort of success. We were broke for a lot of those years, all holding down other jobs, full and part time. As friends in our 30's , we never set out 'rules' of who had to do what, how much time one had to put it, etc. When we started, we were just friends—joking around about getting rich and took a shot. I ignored all advice given to me on starting a company with friends. I could write a book about it. We are not friends anymore. We have quite an antagonistic relationship with one and other. Our accountant is also a partner. We rarely recieve our financial updates without weeks of hounding, although they all look clean. No one is willing to give and take in a discussion as we all believe that we all have alterior motives (which is most likely true). It is only a good situation finacially.


We have nothing on paper to designate our roles outside of officers of the company. We have no pension fund. We have no retirement plan outside of the 401K. I do not know if I can step out and have the company survive. I have 10 employees who would be jobless if I step out and the company is dissolved. It's quite guilt inducing to think of ER, and yet I cannot stop thinking about it.


I have run the FIRECALC with varying results. Highest is over 100 percent, lowest is 5.6 percent. There are so many variables. Sell or keep those rental properties, to keep them means money coming in , to sell means less money will need to be coming in.


My plan is to save, somehow, 50,000 this year and 50,000 next year..I have only been saving about 20,000 a year up to this point. ..My portfolio is doing reasonably well with appx $14,000 increase in the last five months.


I like having cash on hand, but my financial advisor likes 6 months in my hand and the rest in stocks. My savings account of course, pays next to nothing in interest.


In the two years remaining, I will add close to 45,000 in the 401K.
Pay off my car by December 2014. (500.00 per month)
I have close to Zero credit card debt ( I charge for FF miles and pay off every month or two).
I need to consolodiate our home phone, internet and cell accounts---those combined are 400.00 a month, which is ridiculous
Water/Power/Gas is around 300.00 to 400.00 per month.
Car Insurance appx 100.00 per month
Cable TV 125.00
We have budgeted 20,000 for a swimspa to use in ER and 6,000 to finish the last of our landscaping/drainage/fences issues at the home we live in.
health insurance which currently, is about 600.00 a month.


At this moment, my outflow of cash is about 7,000 per month.That shocked me.
2900.00 of that is the mortgage which carries all three properties.
I use 1500.00 a month from the rentals to pay half of that.
We have a 500 a month HOA, my home is worth about 900,000.00 and I have no desire to sell it. I have lived here 20 years and pay next to nothing in taxes thanks to Californias prop 13. If we downsized to something half the price this home is worth we would pay twice what we pay now in taxes if we stay in California, which is where we want to stay. I bought my house for 195,000 and my property taxes remain low.




BTW I use “we and I” a lot, interchangabley. my husband is a freelancer, bringing in only enough to cover groceries and a few other items. His ER was not planned and his unemployment ran out years ago. He has no health insurance and is not on mine. There is nothing on the horizon to point to this situation changing.


I am shooting for at least 500,000 before ER in the 401K porfolio and close to 200,000 on hand in savings or in a portfolio, and hope to have at least $800.00 free and clear to help pay the mortgage, before I can take SS at 62 and a half.


I know this is scattered—but my questions are---does anyone know what my options would be pulling out of my JOB roll at my c-corp. Is it possible, as a priciple, original monitary investor in the company can I salvage any sort of salary if the company survives? I dont t think my partners would buy me out.
I can't find any info online and have not consulted a lawyer as I have no paperwork to show one. If there is paperwork associated with this, I am in the dark. (stupid youth) Ask too many questions and the other partners start to pow-wow and wonder what the other is up to.


Is it possible to live with what I HOPE to be at least 500,000 for the 7.5 years it will take me to SSI? With a cash outflow which I hope to get down to of about 3,000 a month? I don't want to live like a pauper, but am willing to give up the few perks I allow myself. New clothing in every season, quite a bit of online impulse shopping and new furniture every year or two, jewelry, candles and fresh flowers by the DOZENS and new bedding/towels a few times a year—just to change my color scheme plus mani/pedis. I must keep 100 per month for hair appts (something medical will not pay for) and 1000 per year to retain some semblance of youth (when you are this stressed out botox is a girls best friend)
I now realize that I am not a frugal spender at all these past few years, something I have always prided myself on—I don't know when this all got out of control! I think I have been stress buying?
My apologies for the length and for treating this as a bit of a confessional. I know people who have retired early and none will share how much it took. I understand that but they are also the ones who tell me that I work too much and have to slow down. I agree with them completely.
I am open to any and all input. I am also enjoying reading the board and seeing how much you HELP other people. My head spins whenever I break out the calculator and try to do this myself.

Thanks in advance. I am ready yesterday, to retire jan 1, 2015. Just dont know if I can.
and if you took more vacation-WHAT WOULD THEY DO-just take it or tell them to buy you out.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:50 PM   #6
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If you really are the face of the company and your services are what is bought then you have LOTS of leverage to make your partners see things more your way. Put it to them in those terms and see what concessions they will make. Could you leave the company and take the employees and customers with you?
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:53 PM   #7
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Im sure it was all lost in the words--don't say i did not warn you------but i have run fire calc with varying results.
and i promise to be more concise in my posts.
it's very difficult to take vacation as the services I provide are what is paid for, and a back up (which should be a partner) is busy working other jobs. My absence in a capacity where I have been booked and paid for, reflects badly on the company which I want to keep very solvent for at least the next two year. basically, i would like out and i am saving to do just that.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:53 PM   #8
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I am burned out. As even in my own company, my own partners who outnumber me have shot down any thoughts of more than 2 weeks vaction a year. It would not be a “good example” for our employees, who also max out at 2. I add that I am the only partner who shows up to work on a daily basis for a full 8-10 hour day, and does 100 percent of the company travel. The others found other jobs and spend 8 hours a day or more at those jobs where they are employees, while possibly putting in 2 hours a day on the phone with our own company in sales and scheduling.
There's something that's missing here. Under the conditions you describe above, any normal person / partner would be happy to agree to an extra week's vacation for you ... but more confusing ... why aren't you standing up for yourself It's sounds like these partners don't even work for the company. They just reap the rewards that you, and the employees provide. Simply tell them you're taking an extra week ... unless there's more to the story?
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:55 PM   #9
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If you really are the face of the company and your services are what is bought then you have LOTS of leverage to make your partners see things more your way. Put it to them in those terms and see what concessions they will make. Could you leave the company and take the employees and customers with you?
My partners provide a lot of what is needed to keep the company running (combined they do the job of one and a half employees, i fear). But starting over would be starting over, and at this point, I just dont think I am up to it. But that you SO much, i do appreciate your respose.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:01 PM   #10
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There's something that's missing here. Under the conditions you describe above, any normal person / partner would be happy to agree to an extra week's vacation for you ... but more confusing ... why aren't you standing up for yourself It's sounds like these partners don't even work for the company. They just reap the rewards that you, and the employees provide. Simply tell them you're taking an extra week ... unless there's more to the story?
I know, I know. It's a horrible situation I have put myself into. At most I thought this 'run' would last about two years at this level and when I was younger, the thought of running at this pace was not as daunting. With the growth of the company more and more responsibily has been put on me. The partners really are living the life. They were smart enough to make sure that the company could run without them doing much beyond 'phoning it in" Have you read a book called something like "The Five Hour Work Week?" I am now convinced that they all did and left me in the dark.
You guys really are backing up my story. When I put it on paper it seems unreasonable to me. When i explain it to others they are horrified. I keep expecting someone to tell me to "suck it up" but no one does. They are as horrified as I am.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:06 PM   #11
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I like the long posts. There's more information there. Nothing like answering a question in a short post and the OP follows up with things not mentioned before that change the whole situation.

In your case, your business provides a service that is in fact YOU personally providing the service. What do the partners do that earns them a partnership? For that matter what do the employees do that the business still revolves around only your personal activity?

I worked in a small company and when the partners wanted to retire, they found a replacement who would work for salary and do the 9-5 part of the job. The partners gradually reduced hours until they were no more than part-time, then were able to sell the business. It took a while to find a bright young guy willing to do the job for salary, but they were successful. Is anything like this possible in your business?

And what's up with DH? You're stressed to the gills and he's freelancing a hobby job? Could be time to man up.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:19 PM   #12
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Growing Older---thank you. I also dislike getting half of a story and then a question ansewerd is followled by a "yes, but" so i wanted to put it all on the line.
This will sound very sexist, but I am so busy I need a wife. My DH provides all of what I need at home, from cooking and cleaning, to foot rubs and hot baths. He handles a lot of the techs/legal/taxes/upkeep on the rentals and does most of the home rehab himself. He was pretty solvent for quite a few years, but after his job loss there was nothing he could find in his field. In the mean time he started to freelance in computer training. 75.00 per hour. When he has applied at companys to do just that in a corporate situation the pay is MUCH lower. There are quite a few business trips that he comes with me on, which he would not be able to do if he pulled a 40 hour week. I often would like him to 'man up' but I also enjoy his time in the apron. (Where is a smiley when I need it) He has been duly warned, if I ER rhe may have to become a greeter at Wal-Mart.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:30 PM   #13
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Oh and sorry, each partner put in 10,000 to start the company. I have proposed on more than one occassion to buy a couple of them out, ( 5 total including myself) but a couple of the other partners "feel bad" about that. Most likely my guess is, they are putting in the same amount of hours and why throw a stone in a glass house?

I am hoping it is possible to bow out of "my job"the company, and become more "other partner-esque" and recieve some sort of long term salary, but I have not proposed this, as I am afraid that they COULD train someone behind my back and buy me out on their own terms. I do not know if they can legally do that, since we are a private company and i am an original, monitary investor in the company, nor so I know if any of us can do that to other partners, as that idea has been shot down. I just have no researched that angle.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:37 PM   #14
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...I am afraid that they COULD train someone behind my back and buy me out on their own terms. I do not know if they can legally do that, since we are a private company and i am an original, monitary investor in the company, nor so I know if any of us can do that to other partners, as that idea has been shot down. I just have no researched that angle.
Why not? Sounds like you've allowed the assumption of that possibility to imprison you. Find out what your legal options are and act from a position of knowledge/strength instead of being the victim.

(Sorry for the tone but it sounds like you need some 'tough love'...)
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:43 PM   #15
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ReWahoo, I am good with the tough love. I have just put off the research. What sort of a lawyer do I see? (hypothetical) I really don't have any idea. I have researched online and have come up empty handed with every search. I have not even thought about it in a year or so. "founding memeber of company wants to leave and continue to recieve salary" does not yield anything. Or it least it did not last time I checked.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ready yesterday View Post
What sort of a lawyer do I see? (hypothetical) I really don't have any idea.
There are quite a few attorneys on the forum who should be able to answer your question about what type lawyer you need to seek out. Hopefully one or more will respond.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:54 PM   #17
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What a fantastic resource this forum is! Call in the lawyers!
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:55 PM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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Careful - you'll scare them off...
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:59 PM   #19
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Well damn, I thought it was better than making a lawyer joke.
I gotsa get myself more familiar with the tone here.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:01 PM   #20
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You may have mentioned this but do you have a formal partnership agreement? One place you mentioned that you are a C corp--did I read that correctly? How are shares distributed---equally? Are they in provisions in the corporate articles that provide for succession--like what would happen if you were unable to return from a business trip?
Some time with a lawyer specializing in corporate governance might be of assistance in dealing with your personal obligations and rights.
You obviously have a lot of plate but it may be of help to see what legal lines are already in place.
Nwsteve
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