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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-01-2004, 07:37 PM   #21
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

Hyper, on this thread and many others you constantly
rag on the US and never find anything good to say
You and your ilk make me sick. You come here from
God knows where to make money and then plan to
retire outside the country. You rant about our politics
and morals and demean our values .... go back under
the rock you came from.

Charlie
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-01-2004, 08:24 PM   #22
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

Charlie

In several months enjoying and learning from the posts on this board I have not observed anything approaching a ''.. rant about our politics and morals and demean our values....''

Hyper is entitled to express his view, as we all are, and his opinions as expressed on this thread are based upon facts rather than emotional vitriol. One may disagree with his views, Charlie, but the right to express those views (in a reasonable and civilised manner) should be protected at all costs. That's democracy, or would you prefer the alternative??

I think it is unfair to sabotage ''jj's'' thread, where further valuable comments and input may be exchanged. I for one have done some further research on the Health Care issues previously discussed and would like to share that information.

Might I suggest that you start a new thread for yourself entitled ''Immigrants with Opinions Please Go Home!!'', where I am sure you will feel more comfortable.

S888
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Now waitaminnit...
Old 12-01-2004, 10:04 PM   #23
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Now waitaminnit...

Quote:
Hyper, on this thread and many others you constantly rag on the US and never find anything good to say.
Ya know, Charlie, you may have shot from the lip on this one. I'm no Hyper shill, but a review of his last 50 posts doesn't even seem close to rant territory.

http://early-retirement.org/cgi-bin/...ame=Hyperborea

Were you reading this board when Ted was at his ranting finest? Hyper wouldn't even make the cut.

http://early-retirement.org/cgi-bin/...s;username=Ted

It's not as if Hyper's trying to say that Canada (or wherever he decides to retire) is better than the U.S. He's pointing out some interesting & problematic issues that I'd never have discovered on my own, and perhaps it takes an "outsider's" perspective to make us appreciate those issues. Frankly, most of his criticism appears to be directed at the government and the IRS-- hardly undeserving targets! And dare I say that much of the negativity might even possibly be interpreted as homesickness. After all, work brought him here of something less than his own free will.

I'm not trying to justify or even defend Hyper's remarks. But I'd like to think that when I go off on a similar riff about Congress or tax laws that I'm not going to be singed by your flamethrower too...
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-01-2004, 10:13 PM   #24
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

Quote:
All British citizens are assumed to be "domiciled" in the UK, even if they haven't lived there for "x" years! This concept of "domicile" is a legal one, but in essence it implies that unless you have taken up domicile in another country permanantly and indefinitely the UK will assess your estate for inheritance tax........ Anyway, my point is - going back to the UK for a hip replacement on the NHS would likely scupper your attempts at losing your UK domicile and avoiding UK inheritance tax! if somebody knows otherwise please let me know.

jj,

A vital point to clarify is ones current status and to avoid confusion in terminologies - domicile, residence, citizen, domicile of origin, Not ordinarily resident etc etc. and their respective impact about the three topics under discussion: Social Security, Medical Care and Inheritance taxes in the UK for expatriate British Citizens.

As I opened this avenue with my comment on the use of the ''free'' National Health System, I felt kind of responsible for clearing up some of the points! BTW, free is in parenthesis as certain minor charges are levied for some services, prescriptions etc.

I have checked with the Inland Revenue, The Immigration and Nationality Directorate and the Department of Health along with placing requests for info from National Insurance people and the Benefits Agency. This post is the distillation of the info collated to date.

Firstly, the basis upon which the right to access the National Health system is not directly connected to ones residence status in the UK, nor ones actual place of nominal residence or a ''Not-Ordinarily Resident'' status (which I would guess is the status you currently hold as far as the UK is concerned). The primary basis of entitlement are - ones British Citizenship and history of National Insurance contributions, either in full whilst living / working in the UK when NI would be deducted at source under the PAYE system or at the minimum Class C level (about 300 Pounds a year) whilst an expatriate. Provided a person has sufficient NI contribution credits, access to the National Health System remains intact. Even if there is a gap in NI contributions, the opportunity to catch up is flexible and can be made in instalments over several years. At only 300 pounds a year it is worth it, it seems to me.

Also, the NI contribution history would determine the level of State Old Age Pension and other benefits you could receive (noting that these benefits again are not affected by ones actual location of residence)

Payment of NI and / or the use of the UK National Health system has no bearing whatsoever on ones domicile and subsequent inheritance tax issues. A visit for health care would not, I am informed by an Immigration lawyer, materially affect ones existing domicile status, nor would it ''zero the clock'' if one had accumulated a number of years outside the UK with the view of attaining non-domicile status. The domicile status is obviously complex and dependant upon personal circumstances such as time away, the possession of a residence in the UK, frequency of visit, the residence of dependant children etc etc. I have not received unequivocal rules of domicile as the variables are too numerous, but this is the general drift. Also, domicile and citizenship are similarly non related. One can be non-domiciled as far as the UK is concerned but still be a British Citizen and passport holder enjoying full Consular Protection.

Lastly on the Inheritance Tax, remember that the UK does not tax inheritance between spouses, it is only an issue as between the surviving spouse and children and then only if the non-domicile issue is still unresolved. One prays that when that time comes, the domicile issue would be resolved, and so the UK inheritance tax issue would be moot. NB: this holds except for property of the Estate physically existing inside in the UK (maybe an old house?) but legal advice and estate planning should overcome that obstacle.

In conclusion then, jj, I do believe that a) ''free'' UK National Health is available to you should you so wish and to avail yourself of such care (other than for long term i.e. years and years) would not affect either Inheritance issue nor you domicile or residence issues.


I trust you will find this of use, if only as a reassuring fall back should the worst come to the worse.

All the best,

Simon888
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 04:44 AM   #25
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

There is really interesting (to me) information being posted here. Thank you to everyone!

Our feelings at the moment are that we are likely to stay in the US as permanent residents indefinitely, whether we may spend months at a time outside the country traveling when the kids are grown is another matter. We will continue to pay our taxes to the IRS. What we are seeking to do is cover our bases such that if these plans do not come to pass we have a fall back position.

Simon, your point about not necessarily losing a "domicile" elsewhere if one uses the NHS is interesting. In the past we have taken advice from various experts, admittedly on other matters, but have never found anyone prepared to stick their neck out and give unequivocal rules! They are always very vague, leaving you really no better off than before you took the advice - in fact, financially usually 000's worse off.

My experience of using the NHS since we are no longer resident is taking one of the boys into my parents' GP for an office visit. At that time we were living elsewhere in the EU - and there are schemes to allow EU member residents to obtain healthcare. We registered as temporary residents, and were not required to provide any details other than our home address. I'm sure that I didn't have to give details of my National Insurance # (UK equivalent of a SS#). We received care without having to pay anything, just as a UK resident would. Even the prescription charge was free (children and seniors receive free prescriptions). I certainly have the impression that if we had been visiting from the US it would be the same - no charge - but a hospitalization may be different.

Thanks to Hyper for researching the Part A medicare payment. This was better news for us than you knew. We have 28 SS credits so far and therefore only need next years' credits to break the 30 barrier and qualify for the lower amount, $206pm instead of $375. These premiums seem to be increasing by about 10% every year which is something to consider, but at least we know what they are now and can either plan to work the two extra years or not.

My next job is to research these tax programs - and ask Santa for one for Christmas
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 05:54 AM   #26
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

I did not want to hijack jj's thread and this will be
my final post on this subject.

Nords, I scanned all 50 of Hyper's posts again.
He is ok when talking about neutral subjects
and is quite good on financial topics and even
entertaining at times. However, I could not
find even one comment favorable to the US.

I particularly resent his classification of Christian
religious fundamentalism as a "cult". I realize
that many on this board probably agree with him
but it still pisses me off.

If I were computer savvy I would extract all the
negative things he has said about the US and
post them just to let the other readers see for
themselves. Honestly, I could find no positive
comments on the US.

Maybe it is that I live in a passing era. I was
brought up to love God, Family and Country.
When a visitor abuses our hospitality it is my
gut reaction to lash back ..... even if there is a
grain of truth in some of his biased comments.

Simon, my frustration with US haters in general
was triggered by Hyper. I have nothing against
fair criticism if it is balanced occasionally with
positive comments.

My apologies to jj ........ but to Hyper, never!

Cheers,

Charlie
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 09:03 AM   #27
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

I was the one who mentioned there seemed to be a lot of "religious nutjobs" running amok in America.
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 09:03 AM   #28
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

Quote:
You rant about our politics
and morals and demean our values .... go back under
the rock you came from.
Gee, Charlie. Those are some nice values you've got there. Perhaps you'd like to give us a lecture on the values of tolerance, respect, and polite discourse....
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Re: Now waitaminnit...
Old 12-02-2004, 10:58 AM   #29
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Re: Now waitaminnit...

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...., but a review of his last 50 posts doesn't even seem close to rant territory.
??? Lousy surf today?

Mikey
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 11:09 AM   #30
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 12:10 PM   #31
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

[quote]I did not want to hijack jj's thread and this will be
my final post on this subject. *
*

Maybe it is that I live in a passing era. *I was
brought up to love God, Family and Country.
When a visitor abuses our hospitality it is my
gut reaction to lash back ..... even if there is a
grain of truth in some of his biased comments. *


To all the folks that are on Charlys case for his remark, just wanted to make a comment or two.

As Charly indicated, this is a passing era. (I'm just a couple of years from being Charlys age).

Most of the young people on this board have never been in military, and indeed have no desire or need to participate.

Our generation was taught, from an early age, "Your country, right or wrong". Along with the idea that you owed your country a debt by serving in the military or similer conscription.

It is indeed the passing of an era, and your generation , i'm sure will have your own problems to deal with when you find yourself facing the "generation gap

In my opinion, I think Charly was railing against Hyperborea because it would have been almost unthinkable 30 years ago. (A young man coming to this country, and making a fantastic living, and showing his gratitude by having mostly negative things to say about
the U.S.).

According to most of the posters on this subject, most of you think this is perfectly acceptable.

Regards, Jarhead




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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 12:12 PM   #32
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

Quote:

Firstly, the basis upon which the right to access the National Health system is not directly connected to ones residence status in the UK, nor ones actual place of nominal residence or a ''Not-Ordinarily Resident'' status
Simon, I'm not sure that this is correct. See:
http://www.publications.doh.gov.uk/o...tors/rules.htm

This appears to say that you are eligible for NHS services providing you are a resident. It does not depend on National Insurance contributions, payment of UK taxes, or anything else. What's more, even if you *are* a British citizen, if you don't live in the UK, you are not eligible for free NHS treatment. (Although, in practice, I suspect you'd get it anyway.)

At least, that's my understanding of the link ...

Peter
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 12:41 PM   #33
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

My country, right or wrong?

And if you're wrong?

I'm exactly your age jarhead, but I try to keep an open mind.

Blind faith can get you into a lot of trouble.
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 01:13 PM   #34
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

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According to most of the posters on this subject, most of you think this is perfectly acceptable.
Don't worry, you two have plenty of company. 53% of Americans recently chose your value system. 47% prefer something a little less dogmatic. Can't we all just get along?
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 01:32 PM   #35
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

Welcome jj

There are a lot of real smart people here who have lived a lot and they have a ton of information and don't mind sharing.

Some can get carried away as you can see.

Keep an open mind in all things

Bruce

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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 01:33 PM   #36
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

Quote:
I did not want to hijack jj's thread
But did so anyways I see.

Quote:
I particularly resent his classification of Christian
religious fundamentalism as a "cult". * I realize
that many on this board probably agree with him
but it still pisses me off.
I have nothing, absolutely nothing, against those who wish to practice their religion and have religious beliefs. *Some people need or want to believe in something "higher" and that is a personal choice or at least it should be. *Many of the religious fundamentalists (Christian, Muslim, Hindu, and other) don't want it to be. *They want to enforce their religious beliefs on others through force of law.

I'll tell you that many outside the US that I know well (family and friends in 3 nations on 3 continents) ask me about the "militant religious fundamentalists" in the US and to them they don't look much different than those in the Middle East. *What makes it even more ironic is that those in the US who are demanding laws to protect them from two men or two women forming a stable family unit are those who are in general constantly screaming about the goverment interferring in people's lives. *I guess it's ok when it's things that you want to do to others.

Quote:
If I were computer savvy I would extract all the
negative things he has said about the US and
post them just to let the other readers see for
themselves.
Hey, all it takes is a some intelligence and a bit of time. *You're retired now so you've got the time ...

Quote:
Honestly, I could find no positive
comments on the US.
Hmmm, I'm not sure what you want here - some sort of kowtow to the emperor? *Some statement that the US has overthrown democratically elected governments around the world but that's ok cause it was all done for a better purpose?

Hmm, how about: I'm enjoying the Mediterranean-like climate of the SF Bay Area. *The people I work with (at least some of whom are Americans), my neighbours, the folks that I interact with in-person on a regular basis*are in general nice, decent people.

Quote:
Maybe it is that I live in a passing era. *I was *
brought up to love God, Family and Country.
When a visitor abuses our hospitality it is my
gut reaction to lash back ..... even if there is a
grain of truth in some of his biased comments.
Yes, blind obedience to the leaders of your church and your country. *A mode of thought that has led to many disastrous events in history. *One can only hope that such an "era" is behind us but recent history gives us little evidence of that.

Quote:
I have nothing against
fair criticism if it is balanced occasionally with
positive comments.
So, freedom of speech is only ok if I say things that you like then, is it? *

Quote:
........ but to Hyper, never!
Well then. *I guess there's nothing left for it but swords at dawn. *
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 01:39 PM   #37
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

I myself would never live in Canada, or any other country, and badmouth it where I could be overheard by the natives. It just isn't polite. And, by my judgment, Hyper isn't polite when he does this. He does have interesting and possibly useful things to say. Things that I would maybe say myself, but then I am American and that gives me the right. I will happily listen to him but know that he is at best rude in this criticism. Most of what he has to say on many topics is helpful and appears well informed.

I am around immigrants all the time. Many of them (try Cubans!) are full of criticism of the US. Yet they know that for all their Cuban patriotism, it's just a rotten little island full of grifters of various sorts. Same with the Russians; just substitute rotten frozen tundra for island.

And as bad as the US may be, I don't think we'll ever be net exporters of people to Canada. Canadians vote with their feet and come here; for the most part Americans don't go there. Personally, I would like to see some of our policies closer to Canada's than what they are currently. Like trade the war in Iraq for more equitable healthcare.

Considering that we are being swamped by illiterates from the South, what does it matter if we are importing upper middle calss rudies from Canada? Canada couldn't hurt us as much in 10 years as Mexico and points south do in a day.

JMHO

Mikey

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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 01:58 PM   #38
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

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I myself would never live in Canada, or any other country, and badmouth it where I could be overheard by the natives. It just isn't polite.
Pretty good, Mikey. * I think that's a record for insulting the most nations in a single post, and this is a place where the natives will certainly see it. *

Edited to say: this site is chockful of both satire and irony, and I could bet either way with Mikey's post.
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 02:03 PM   #39
 
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This thread has gotten quite amusing! *I am neither very young or very old. - 53 - I did serve in the Military. Was drafted during Vietnam. Too Chicken to go to Canada, I joined the Navy.

Most of the people that I have heard bash the U.S. Government are the Right Wing like Chuck-Lyn. Heck even their hero Reagan. Said "Government can't solve the problem - They are the problem".

If we all just waved the flag and thought everything was perfectly fine in the 50's and 60's. We would not have had Civil Rights or Women's Rights or any Environmental Protection etc. etc. etc.

Changes do not come cheap and the first step of change is admitting things are F*cked up. The only people that want to go back to the 50's are Old, well off, white males. I'm betting Chuck Lyn is not an African-American.
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Re: Hi, I'm jj
Old 12-02-2004, 02:45 PM   #40
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Re: Hi, I'm jj

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Our generation was taught, from an early age, "Your country, right or wrong". Along with the idea that you owed your country a debt by serving in the military or similer conscription.
Jarhead, I agree with what you said here, and will expand on it a bit. My Dad is 75 and he has described those times (especially the time around WW2). He says that everything was black and white in those days - people actually trusted their elected leaders. But that was then...

Since that time a large contingent of your generation (and the previous generation) has moved on with the times. Many have developed a healthy dose of skepticism, and I don't think the comments Charlie posted in this thread capture the spirit of the things I learned from your generation when I was growing up - things like these:

-- That the people running the government are not synonymous with "country". Bad guys can and will be elected, and it's our obligation as citizens to be skeptical, educated, and extremely vigilant in this regard.
-- That "we the people" are the country, and it is our obligation to be "right".
-- That truth and honor are non-negotiable, and that unquestioning compliance is the enemy of truth.
-- That it is our obligation as citizens to oppose actions taken on behalf of our country that we believe to be "wrong".
-- That service is an obligation and can be fulfilled in any number of ways.
-- That others come before self.
-- That it is the obligation of the strong to protect the weak.
-- That accepting personal responsibility for one's actions is required.
-- That your word is your bond.

Your generation is a good one, in my view, and I hate to see the days approaching when your numbers will decrease. I do think that a great many in your generation would be open to some of the very same critical comments that set Charlie off, however. I know that my father, my mother, and all four of my grandparents wouldn't share his impressions about most things. But I do value Charlie's financial acumen and I have learned from him.
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