No not in our case. His friend yes cause he's got 2 young kids to support, but we don't have to move. Both properties we have now are in highly desirable areas with reasonable COL, and we love both locations. We will get rid of one since it's too much work and waste of $$ maintaining both and we will be traveling a lot. But no plans to move.
How do you convince your spouse to RE?
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No not in our case. His friend yes cause he's got 2 young kids to support, but we don't have to move. Both properties we have now are in highly desirable areas with reasonable COL, and we love both locations. We will get rid of one since it's too much work and waste of $$ maintaining both and we will be traveling a lot. But no plans to move.
REWahoo
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I was under the impression personal advice was "wisdom neutral".
jollystomper
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It is tough to give advice with only 1/2 the story. I'm not saying what is posted may not be true, but sometimes perceptions that one has of one's spouse are not accurate. This is especially true if there is a communication breakdown in the relationship. I'm not saying there is... but when folks have such a contrasting view over such an important matter, one cannot help but wonder.
Based on what has been posted, my assessment is that the OP's DH has a value system center on money and prestige/power, along with the attention/adoration that comes with it. The expensive toys, ability to hang out with others in the same socioeconomic bracket and "talk shop", Maybe even the ability to lord it over others not as fortunate or well off, might all come into play. In addition, if he has no friends, or friends who have the same mindset, as much as he complains about the misery and health, either he on his own, or under the influence of these friends, is not changing his value system. The "misery" in his view might be a badge of honor.
It is not a surprising thing. At our college reunions DW and I talk to classmates with net worths in tens and hundreds of millions of dollars but complaining about stress, and we mention thinking about retirement. Many of them are surprised. They can't grasp why someone making a good salary would ever retire, because their value system is also about the prestige and the money.
In my view, nothing with change until his value system changes. And sadly, it may take a "shock" to his system - some severe health or other crisis to him or a close friend/family member to change it. One of my mentors at work, 5 years old than me and very well off financially for years, never considered retiring at all until he was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
Maybe that "shock" would be the OP retiring herself, and building a separate life... and him seeing the OP actually enjoying that life, since now he way wonder "she wants me to retire, but she says she hates her job and is still working". I don't know.
I don't wish "shocks" on anyone, but this might be the only type of thing that gets his attention. I don't know.
Based on what has been posted, my assessment is that the OP's DH has a value system center on money and prestige/power, along with the attention/adoration that comes with it. The expensive toys, ability to hang out with others in the same socioeconomic bracket and "talk shop", Maybe even the ability to lord it over others not as fortunate or well off, might all come into play. In addition, if he has no friends, or friends who have the same mindset, as much as he complains about the misery and health, either he on his own, or under the influence of these friends, is not changing his value system. The "misery" in his view might be a badge of honor.
It is not a surprising thing. At our college reunions DW and I talk to classmates with net worths in tens and hundreds of millions of dollars but complaining about stress, and we mention thinking about retirement. Many of them are surprised. They can't grasp why someone making a good salary would ever retire, because their value system is also about the prestige and the money.
In my view, nothing with change until his value system changes. And sadly, it may take a "shock" to his system - some severe health or other crisis to him or a close friend/family member to change it. One of my mentors at work, 5 years old than me and very well off financially for years, never considered retiring at all until he was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
Maybe that "shock" would be the OP retiring herself, and building a separate life... and him seeing the OP actually enjoying that life, since now he way wonder "she wants me to retire, but she says she hates her job and is still working". I don't know.
I don't wish "shocks" on anyone, but this might be the only type of thing that gets his attention. I don't know.
JustCurious
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I have been a member of this board for years, and I value and appreciate all of the great insights and comments that I read on here on almost a daily basis. However, I think some people on here tend to get a bit smug about their view of life as superior to others. The fact of the matter is different people have different views about what they want out of life, and there is no right and wrong way to live. If someone wants to keep working, for whatever reason, whether it be money, prestige, power, whatever, who are we to judge them? If that is their choice, it is not our place to judge them for making a "wrong" choice. Isn't this a free country? How is judging someone for continuing to work any different from them judging you for not working?
I think it takes a lot of experience and wisdom to step back and realize that there are no right and wrong views on this subject, only different views.
I think it takes a lot of experience and wisdom to step back and realize that there are no right and wrong views on this subject, only different views.
BTravlin
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You could try my DW's approach. She said I'm retiring and moving to Mexico and I'd like for you to come with me but I'm going regardless.
dd564
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I think this is pretty good.
Say, I'm going to go. I'd love you to come with, but I can't control what you want to do. If what we have now isn't enough, I fear you will never have enough.
JustCurious
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Did you go with her?
THANK YOU (and your DW for her guts), and many others on this board suggesting similar solution! I totally agree and can actually see myself taking this approach - let myself retire first, then let DH adjust himself to it.
BTravlin
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Yes I did. It was about three years earlier than my original plan but all is working out quite well so I'm glad she pushed me or, should I say, pulled me as that is probably a more accurate description.
Katsmeow
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I think that it is human nature that people do tend to do that. In this situation I think there are two issues:
1. The original poster wants to retire. Now, I agree that she doesn't get to choose for her husband when he retires. To me, the answer to that is easy given their finances reported her. She retires and he keeps working. The thing that bothers me there is her saying her husband doesn't like her to do things with others when she is off by herself. In that situation, then I would say that if it was me I would just retire and my husband would just have to deal with his feelings (and maybe go to counseling together if it was a real problem).
2. This is not a situation where the OP is posting that her husband loves his job and doesn't want to retire. If that was the case, then I think she and he need to discuss it and see if there is a compromise to be made. Maybe he could reduce his hours or take more vacations, etc. But, in this case, she says her husband hates his job, is stressed and miserable and has job-related health issues. The reason he won't quit is because of financial concerns that are not rationally based. In that situation, if it was me, I would wonder if my husband was suffering from an actual anxiety disorder. Seeing a therapist or maybe even medication might be appropriate. I'm not saying that just because he doesn't want to retire. Loving your job is fine. But she says he hates his job and is miserable in it. If she is right (and she may not be) then I would wonder about anxiety. Again, maybe seeing a therapist or joint counseling would illuminate the issues.
JustCurious
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That is not the whole story. Go back and look at my post where I suggested that the husband may have a completely different take on the issue and may post something completely different.... and see that the OP agreed with me.
Even if it is true that he is miserable, maybe he just likes being miserable. I have known people like that, and you can't change them and make them not be miserable.
Have to go with katsmeow here.
I have seen people who love working, and working hard. Let's call them border collies. They whither away as soon as there is nothing to do! I am really happy they exist, if society was built on the likes of me .. oh dear
Gathering from OP's perspective though, it does not seem that DH is a border collie, or at least he's in the wrong activity.
I have seen people who love working, and working hard. Let's call them border collies
. They whither away as soon as there is nothing to do! I am really happy they exist, if society was built on the likes of me .. oh dear Gathering from OP's perspective though, it does not seem that DH is a border collie, or at least he's in the wrong activity.
In a perfect world a couple would discuss their goals and desires and come to a workable solution that both parties are comfortable with. Sadly it's not a perfect world.
I'm not sure which is more disheartening; not having the same expectations and/or working this out as a team, or believing that you are not being truly heard by your DH and that your opinion and happiness not valued. Essentially by understanding your desire and still not retiring he is saying "sorry... but I come first". On the flip side however, you may be guilty of the same by demanding that he retire when he clearly doesn't want to. You can't control his actions; you only get to be in charge of yourself. You can however, spin your decision in a positive way and he may come around.
Retire and live it up. You are not obliged to wait for him to keep you company. Keep this is a positive light and he may watch you and change his tune. Personally, I would think long and hard about delivering ultimatums regarding retirement - most folks don't react positively when pushed into a corner.
If the goal is to have you both retired and still together then you'll need to proceed in a way that doesn't undermine your relationship. You can always lawyer-up another year....
I'm not sure which is more disheartening; not having the same expectations and/or working this out as a team, or believing that you are not being truly heard by your DH and that your opinion and happiness not valued. Essentially by understanding your desire and still not retiring he is saying "sorry... but I come first". On the flip side however, you may be guilty of the same by demanding that he retire when he clearly doesn't want to. You can't control his actions; you only get to be in charge of yourself. You can however, spin your decision in a positive way and he may come around.
Retire and live it up. You are not obliged to wait for him to keep you company. Keep this is a positive light and he may watch you and change his tune. Personally, I would think long and hard about delivering ultimatums regarding retirement - most folks don't react positively when pushed into a corner.
If the goal is to have you both retired and still together then you'll need to proceed in a way that doesn't undermine your relationship. You can always lawyer-up another year....
daylatedollarshort
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But he is married and not taking care of his health because of his job. His health is his wife's business especially if he becomes an invalid and she has to take care of him. She also said he doesn't want her to quit and be able do what she enjoys.
Snip
This is true. Tell him you would love to experience the rest of your life with him but if he keeps working like this he's going to keel over dead. That means your NEW SECOND HUSBAND is going to really enjoy traveling with you and helping you spend all the money that he is adding by continuing to work!
This is true. Tell him you would love to experience the rest of your life with him but if he keeps working like this he's going to keel over dead. That means your NEW SECOND HUSBAND is going to really enjoy traveling with you and helping you spend all the money that he is adding by continuing to work!
Try and visualize you are both retiring tomorrow and both agree on it. Would you foresee a happy retirement for you both? The issues you are talking about seem that they could continue into retirement. Only difference is you wouldn't have jobs to occupy most of your time. More time together for conflict and strife to fill the time. It seems like you have more assets than you could ever spend. But money doesn't seem to be the issue anyway. I wish you the best in finding a resolution. If you decide on counseling, I would try and focus it on how you could retire together with a happy future.
sgfgrover15
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What does that look like to you with your H retired?
What does that look like to you if he continues to work for whatever reasons he has
t/j in my case my mother passed away at 55 from an extremely aggressive cancer, no warning and it has skewed me to RE maybe sooner than we should but if I follow in her footsteps I have ten years to take advantage of the "good life". My H adored my mom so we are both on the same page. end t/j
Based on the OP's first post, I thought she was not comfortable retiring alone just because her DH would resent her ER. But later reading her comments and replies, she seems to have some good brain
and hopefully will go with her plan and just retire and see what happens. She apparently doesn't sound too concerned if that leads to a divorce (hopefully to marriage counseling only) which is kind of understandable because she hardly ever sees him anyway, except his money. How many hours does he work anyway (including from home)? Just curious.
So, I'd say either retire yourself and see what happens or try to find a (marriage) counselor with a specialty in personal finance first and get a professional perspective on your life/ER/choices.
and hopefully will go with her plan and just retire and see what happens. She apparently doesn't sound too concerned if that leads to a divorce (hopefully to marriage counseling only) which is kind of understandable because she hardly ever sees him anyway, except his money. How many hours does he work anyway (including from home)? Just curious.So, I'd say either retire yourself and see what happens or try to find a (marriage) counselor with a specialty in personal finance first and get a professional perspective on your life/ER/choices.
+1
Until recently, my wife was not at all interested in the concept of early retirement. I had been dreaming of ER for many years and when the opportunity to make it a reality came in 2010, it was simply out of the question for me to let it pass because DW was not ready. So I left my career and DW continued on her professional track. It has worked great - for the both of us.
DW is a workaholic. She has very few hobbies and always find an excuse not to indulge in them. We have not gone once on vacation in the past 13 years. She would take at most 2 weeks off per year (mostly to visit family during the holidays). She'd spend her weekends either working or sleeping. And she'd travel a lot for business (sometimes gone weeks at a time), etc... Basically, our life was dictated by her work schedule.
This is changing, slowly. DW was traveling back and forth between our home in the south and her company's headquarters in California on a biweekly basis. So we moved out west, down the street from HQ. With little to no commute, she had more time to unwind at night and her business travels dropped almost 90%. That alone made a huge difference. Then I started pushing her to take all the paid vacation days that she was earning (her company's policy is use it or lose it). Combined with official holidays, it meant that she had to take almost 8 weeks off per year (unthinkable!). During her time off, I would really make it a point to do a lot of fun stuff with her. I got her into hiking and photography. She's enjoying the beach too. I am starting to see that the ER bug is taking hold. When I go on a hike by myself during the week, she sometimes gets envious. And now she is looking forward to her days off! Lots of cool activities planned around the 4th of July. And our first real vacation together planned for September!
Each couple is different and I don't know what will work for your husband. But if you lead by enjoying your own retirement, I think you might be able to make an impact. The last thing I want to do is give DW an ultimatum to retire. What if she hates retirement? Then I would be responsible for breaking her career. I don't want to have that on my conscience. I will let her walk to the light at her own pace.
chris2008
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@FIREd: excellent strategy!
WannabeRetired
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Nice plan. Way to go!
Meadbh
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Very effective strategy, FIREd! Well planned and executed. Obviously DW, while very effective at her job, needed you to manage her schedule. Clearly the move was key to achieving a better quality of life. The strain of long distance travel cannot be overestimated. Now that she is off that particular treadmill she has more time to enjoy with you and to think about life beyond w*rk. You are a good DH!
+1
Maenad
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I'm finishing up some training on influencing people, and some of the things the instructor stressed were:
1. Go into conversations with an open mind and heart;
2. Be curious about your DH - tell him you want to understand him, and ask why it's important to him to keep working;
3. Remember that he's a person, not an object to boss around.
The trick is to really honestly do these things. Ask him to tell you why it's important. Ask open-ended, non-leading questions if you need clarification. And then keep your mouth shut. Don't give any opinions, just tell him you'd like a few days to digest what he has said. You may be surprised at what you hear, and the extra insight into your husband's mind.
I also recommend visiting a professional as a neutral third party. If both partners go to a counselor with an honest desire to improve the relationship, it can be very helpful. And if he won't go with you, go alone.
Then and only then would I recommend just retiring and letting him deal with his own feelings. If he isn't practiced at doing this already, it's a little too much like throwing a kid into the deep end of the pool to teach them to swim.
Divorce is a last resort. I know people can be really flippant online, but don't even let the word cross your lips until all other options have been tried and you're both still miserable.
1. Go into conversations with an open mind and heart;
2. Be curious about your DH - tell him you want to understand him, and ask why it's important to him to keep working;
3. Remember that he's a person, not an object to boss around.
The trick is to really honestly do these things. Ask him to tell you why it's important. Ask open-ended, non-leading questions if you need clarification. And then keep your mouth shut. Don't give any opinions, just tell him you'd like a few days to digest what he has said. You may be surprised at what you hear, and the extra insight into your husband's mind.
I also recommend visiting a professional as a neutral third party. If both partners go to a counselor with an honest desire to improve the relationship, it can be very helpful. And if he won't go with you, go alone.
Then and only then would I recommend just retiring and letting him deal with his own feelings. If he isn't practiced at doing this already, it's a little too much like throwing a kid into the deep end of the pool to teach them to swim.
Divorce is a last resort. I know people can be really flippant online, but don't even let the word cross your lips until all other options have been tried and you're both still miserable.
