So how do you protect it ?

[KevinC]

God forbid it comes to me or my wife ending up in a nursing home, but what if ? How do prevent them from taking everything ? Is there something you can doto protect your home ? is there something you can do to protect your 401K ? WTF !! It gets me mad just thinking about it. I'm just now starting to look ahead at that. Im 58, plan on retiring at 60. Firecalc and other calculators say I'll be ready. I just don't want to give it to anyone but my kids !!

 

[2017ish]

I figure if DW or I wants to be in a nursing home, we shouldn't expect someone else to pay for it. If I didn't plan well and ran out of all our assets, my understanding is that the taxpayers will step in.

If I were seriously concerned about not allowing any of my assets to be used for nursing homes, I suppose I would take the appropriate steps when the time comes to ensure that I would not be alive to go into a nursing home.

 

[Walt34]

Healthcare directive and Power of Attorney for someone you trust a lot.

 

[friar1610]

God forbid it comes to me or my wife ending up in a nursing home, but what if ? How do prevent them from taking everything ? Is there something you can doto protect your home ? is there something you can do to protect your 401K ? WTF !! It gets me mad just thinking about it. I'm just now starting to look ahead at that. Im 58, plan on retiring at 60. Firecalc and other calculators say I'll be ready. I just don't want to give it to anyone but my kids !!

Although expensive, there is long-term care insurance. Many discussions about whether or not it's worth it.

 

[kimcdougc]

I tell my daughter when I can no longer remember or beyond doing for myself, remind me to take the pills on the counter.....all the pills. Of course she said she couldn't do that.

 

[ejman]

God forbid it comes to me or my wife ending up in a nursing home, but what if ? How do prevent them from taking everything ? Is there something you can doto protect your home ? is there something you can do to protect your 401K ? WTF !! It gets me mad just thinking about it. I'm just now starting to look ahead at that. Im 58, plan on retiring at 60. Firecalc and other calculators say I'll be ready. I just don't want to give it to anyone but my kids !!

Well, I guess one moves to Sweden. Out of curiosity after reading another thread on Sweden I checked on what the costs of a nursing home would be in Stockholm and it appears that 4,778 Swedish Krona per month would about cover the maximum allowed. One Sweedish Krona = $0.11 so less that $500 a month ought to do it. Of course, there might be a little pesky thing or other about being a Swedish citizen

 

[Fedup]

I have LTC for up to 3 years, but I make sure I have enough to cover. I budget 6-figure budget per year when my husband and I in our 80s-90s. But one thing I feel better is that on avearage people don't stay in nursing home for longer than 3 years. This is why I only purchased LTC for 3 years. But one of my kid's will manage our money in that case. Like I often said to my husband, my daughter may not earn a lot of money now, but she has the flexibility to work anywhere she likes, so that is a bonus. In my city, there's a lot of help for older people, ranging from day care to full nursing home. You can age in place until you absolutely have to go to nursing home, which helps with the cost.

 

[Ed B]

Yes, there are legal maneuverings that can be done to protect your assets if you or your wife - whomever is the survivor - must live in a nursing home. It protects your assets for your heirs and puts the State on the hook to pay for your semi-private medicaid room. Or you can use your assets to pay for the best private room in the facility of your choice for as long as your assets last. It depends on your level of motivation to sacrifice for your heirs. All of this varies by state.

I just went through this as my mother's power of attorney. She is an introvert and a semi-private room would be torture for her. I have no interest in protecting her house as my inheritance while she is forced to settle for a semi-private medicaid room. So we sold her house and are using her assets to keep her in a private room as long as possible. She is graduating to a much cheaper assisted living facility which is more like an apartment in a few months, assuming continued recovery from a badly botched surgery.

But if you and your spouse qualify for long term care insurance, you should check it out. My wife and i do not qualify because of preexisting conditions.

 

[braumeister]

Well, I guess one moves to Sweden. Out of curiosity after reading another thread on Sweden I checked on what the costs of a nursing home would be in Stockholm and it appears that 4,778 Swedish Krona per month would about cover the maximum allowed. One Sweedish Krona = $0.11 so less that $500 a month ought to do it. Of course, there might be a little pesky thing or other about being a Swedish citizen

Making me think of the other thread. I suppose having a Swedish nurse wouldn't be so bad.

 

[imoldernu]

Here's a link to an older post that covers the way we look at this. While there are more details in later posts, this gives a broad overview. Post #34

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/sharing-23-years-of-frugal-retirement-62251.html#post1214332

 

[MissMolly]

I figure if DW or I wants to be in a nursing home, we shouldn't expect someone else to pay for it. If I didn't plan well and ran out of all our assets, my understanding is that the taxpayers will step in.

If I were seriously concerned about not allowing any of my assets to be used for nursing homes, I suppose I would take the appropriate steps when the time comes to ensure that I would not be alive to go into a nursing home.

+1

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

If I were seriously concerned about not allowing any of my assets to be used for nursing homes, I suppose I would take the appropriate steps when the time comes to ensure that I would not be alive to go into a nursing home.

The issue here is that you may not be in the position to make that decision. My Dad constantly tells me that he will "clock himself out" before he "becomes a burden" and I try to explain to him that very often, you will not be able to make that decision depending on what happens. How many people know the day before they have a debilitating stroke or slip in the tub and fracture their spine?

 

[ejman]

Making me think of the other thread. I suppose having a Swedish nurse wouldn't be so bad.

Hum... Yup, Sweden is looking better all the time

 

[2017ish]

The issue here is that you may not be in the position to make that decision. My Dad constantly tells me that he will "clock himself out" before he "becomes a burden" and I try to explain to him that very often, you will not be able to make that decision depending on what happens. How many people know the day before they have a debilitating stroke or slip in the tub and fracture their spine?

That would be a bummer if you didn't want to spend your assets. In my case, as long as I could communicate by some means (and assuming that for some reason I didn't want to spend money on a nursing home or pay for in-home medical/nursing/companion care), I'd simply have to talk in some manner with DW; she and I have for many years discussed active means as a not inappropriate course in some situations.

In any event, I don't lose sleep over the OP's concern of not letting assets be spent in this manner; they are there to spend.

 

[pb4uski]

God forbid it comes to me or my wife ending up in a nursing home, but what if ? How do prevent them from taking everything ? Is there something you can doto protect your home ? is there something you can do to protect your 401K ? WTF !! It gets me mad just thinking about it. I'm just now starting to look ahead at that. Im 58, plan on retiring at 60. Firecalc and other calculators say I'll be ready. I just don't want to give it to anyone but my kids !!

There is an easy way to avoid "them" from taking everything so your kids can have there due.

When the time comes that you need nursing home services, your kids take you in and house you, feed you, wipe your drool and clean your a$$ until you are gone.... problem solved!

 

[VFK57]

I figure if DW or I wants to be in a nursing home, we shouldn't expect someone else to pay for it. If I didn't plan well and ran out of all our assets, my understanding is that the taxpayers will step in.

If I were seriously concerned about not allowing any of my assets to be used for nursing homes, I suppose I would take the appropriate steps when the time comes to ensure that I would not be alive to go into a nursing home.

Agree. There were a few discussions on LTC insurance here. DW and I decided not to purchase LTC insurance because there is unpredictability of the premiums rise on one hand and survival of insurance company when or if you need it on the other. Our plan if it comes to a nursing home, we may sell one of our properties (if run out of funds) and it would cover the cost for an average 14 month living in there (according to statistic) before leaving this world.

 

[NW-Bound]

Well, I guess one moves to Sweden. Out of curiosity after reading another thread on Sweden I checked on what the costs of a nursing home would be in Stockholm and it appears that 4,778 Swedish Krona per month would about cover the maximum allowed. One Sweedish Krona = $0.11 so less that $500 a month ought to do it. Of course, there might be a little pesky thing or other about being a Swedish citizen

Still, I would not envy the Swedes for their good deal on nursing homes. They pay income taxes that make the rest of Europe cringe. If you make it to old age for admission into a nursing home, you win.

From the Web:

Swedes' personal income tax can be as little as 29 per cent of their pay, but most people (anyone earning over £32,000) will pay between 49 and 60 per cent through a combination of local government and state income tax.
​

 

[KmmFIdreamer]

My parents both were in nursing care before passing. Fortunately they had enough assets to cover the cost. (My Mom paid monthly for my Dad's care for 1.5 years before he passed.) When my Mom went in to nursing care she was terminally ill and was gone in 3 months. The first month was covered by insurance and the last 2 months was paid out of her estate after she passed.

That is about it - have enough money to pay for care or else have LTC insurance. If you run out of money then you have to go on Medicaid ....

Even though I live in a right to die state, you still have to be able to administer the drugs to yourself. I know my Mom could not have physically done that in the last few weeks of her life even if she had wanted too.

 

[NW-Bound]

Making me think of the other thread. I suppose having a Swedish nurse wouldn't be so bad.

Even if that nurse is about to give you a shot of sodium thiopental and potassium chloride?

Well, I guess it's a lot better than getting the same shot from this nurse.

 

[ejman]

Even if that nurse is about to give you a shot of sodium thiopental and potassium chloride?

Well, I guess it's a lot better than getting the same shot from this nurse.

Oh Dear... Death panels over there too?

 

[Ed B]

Oh Dear... Death panels over there too?

Death panels are such a red herring.....or maybe not a red herring but a bogus argument. They have been in place for years. I experienced this when my father was terminal for several months leading to his death Feb 1, 2012. He was dying of severe mesothelioma, COPD and possible lung cancer (no point in a biopsy) .

Dad was 100% mentally present and once he realized that he wasn't going to recover he was ready to check out and asked that oxygen stopped and be administered sedatives to sleep thru his death. A group of medical ethicists (sp?) Met with the medical staff and the family. The Ethics panel decided Dad would not be allowed to discontinue oxygen supply. All the medical professionals agreed he was terminal and was only kept alive with high volume, high concentration oxygen in an intensive care facility. About one month later that same panel decided it was OK for him to stop Oxygen. He was given high doses of liquid Xanax and once he was out for about 10 minutes or so, they started bringing down the oxygen. The injected Xanax at regular intervals to keep him in a deep sleep and drew down the oxygen to zero over time. It took about 2 1/2 hours for the process to complete at which point he died.

Yeah, something very much like a death panel has been in place at least since Feb 1, 2012. And I can't help but believe that Medicare $$$$ were part of the equation. Nothing else really change between the two decisions.

 

[savory]

I plan for the nursing home event in the same way I planned for retirement. My initial exposure and experience came with managing my folks health options and finances.

You have received good suggestions on this thread from considering long term care insurance to qualifying for Medicaid and/or see if your assets could cover you.

My suggestion is to consider the various scenarios and create some options. For example qualifying for Medicaid is easy. Just turn your assets to your children/child. Realize you will lose control of your assets but the nursing home is basically free. Not for me now but maybe one day. But wait too long, and I will miss the opportunity.

Perhaps you know someone you can have a conversation and/or pay for the advice of an elder attorney. Unfortunately, there is not a Firecalc for this problem that I am aware.

 

[ejman]

Death panels are such a red herring.....or maybe not a red herring but a bogus argument. They have been in place for years. I experienced this when my father was terminal for several months leading to his death Feb 1, 2012. He was dying of severe mesothelioma, COPD and possible lung cancer (no point in a biopsy) .

Dad was 100% mentally present and once he realized that he wasn't going to recover he was ready to check out and asked that oxygen stopped and be administered sedatives to sleep thru his death. A group of medical ethicists (sp?) Met with the medical staff and the family. The Ethics panel decided Dad would not be allowed to discontinue oxygen supply. All the medical professionals agreed he was terminal and was only kept alive with high volume, high concentration oxygen in an intensive care facility. About one month later that same panel decided it was OK for him to stop Oxygen. He was given high doses of liquid Xanax and once he was out for about 10 minutes or so, they started bringing down the oxygen. The injected Xanax at regular intervals to keep him in a deep sleep and drew down the oxygen to zero over time. It took about 2 1/2 hours for the process to complete at which point he died.

Yeah, something very much like a death panel has been in place at least since Feb 1, 2012. And I can't help but believe that Medicare $$$$ were part of the equation. Nothing else really change between the two decisions.

From your description it sounds like he was made to suffer an additional month of torture against his will. I would not call that a death panel...More like a misguided life panel. My mother is in a nursing home suffering from dementia. When she was more cognizant she indicated she did not want extreme measures to prolong her life. Whenever she has a reversal in her health her caregivers ask me what measures they should pursue and I always refer them to her wishes - no extreme or invasive procedures - no tubes - no IV's - just comfort measures. I feel the same way for myself.

 

[Ed B]

From your description it sounds like he was made to suffer an additional month of torture against his will. I would not call that a death panel...More like a misguided life panel. My mother is in a nursing home suffering from dementia. When she was more cognizant she indicated she did not want extreme measures to prolong her life. Whenever she has a reversal in her health her caregivers ask me what measures they should pursue and I always refer them to her wishes - no extreme or invasive procedures - no tubes - no IV's - just comfort measures. I feel the same way for myself.

You are correct about prolonging his suffering. While I was in no hurry to lose him, they decided when he would be allowed to die.

I need to study advanced directives a little more. My Mother is not comfortable with it. She wants something in between the legal categories. I need to save my family from having to make that decision for me. It is a tough thing for families to deal with.

 

[bw5972]

God forbid it comes to me or my wife ending up in a nursing home, but what if ? How do prevent them from taking everything ? Is there something you can doto protect your home ? is there something you can do to protect your 401K ? WTF !! It gets me mad just thinking about it. I'm just now starting to look ahead at that. Im 58, plan on retiring at 60. Firecalc and other calculators say I'll be ready. I just don't want to give it to anyone but my kids !!

OTOH, it gets me a bit mad thinking of taxpayers like me paying for your long term care so your pile of money can be preserved.