$15 dollar fast food wages

[brewer12345]

Companies for the most part today dont promote and hand out raises. Staying at the same company today often means something is wrong with you that no one else has poached you. At least in tech, thats true.


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But it amounts to the same thing. Whether you make the next jump up by getting promoted or you do so by going elsewhere, it is a recognition of your talent and value added.

 

[purplesky]

What ever happened to working harder, doing an outstanding job, taking more responsibility, and getting promoted to get a raise?

I don't understand this "We are worth $$ so pay up or we'll shut you down" stuff.

Yes. What did happen to working harder,doing an outstanding job,climbing up the ladder and getting promoted?

It seems those days of rewarding employees for hard work are long gone?

Seems like workers are now disposable? shown the door once they become too expensive and experienced?

Its no wonder many millennials are mad and blame baby boomers for this new disposable job economy?

If fast food workers are willing to sit in the street and get arrested don't you think there is something going on in our society and economy?

When I made minimum wage years ago I could have never imagined this world we are living in now?

 

[timo2]

I have done those things too (LBYM) and I also care if for no other reason that I live here too.

But the world is not a static place. Things move, circumstances change, and one of the great things about human beings as a species they are, if nothing else, adaptable to changing circumstances. That evolutionary adaptation (the ability to adapt) is what put them at the top of the food chain.

Recommended reading: Who Moved My Cheese?

And those who refuse to adapt or expect things to stay the same, will be left behind. That is evolution, harsh as it is. Some are dramatic, and those win the infamous and sometimes humorous (but sadly, fictional) Darwin Award.

......

It is simply facing the gritty reality that the world and the marketplace and the employment market change, evolve and adapt, just as they always have and hopefully always will.

exactly. it is a matter of survival. that's why people have more than one job. That's why my friend that is an orderly at a hospital also has a landscape business on the side. That's why my career consists of two types of geologist; three types of cartographer; and two types of project manager. I also ended up moving my residence, for work purposes, 30 times in 15 years. For a zillion reasons, all people can't do that. Lots of people seem to be attached to their geographic and/or familial location. I was always amazed at people whose families had resided in the same place for over 100 years in the USA. In other countries, that could be several hundred years. The multinational corporations are pitting these people against each other. except things like fast food can not be relocated. so let the workers try for more money. nothing wrong with that.

 

[Senator]

Perhaps we can have a minimum wage of $2 until you graduate from HS. Then, mandate military service at 18 if you have dropped out.

The market would be forced to pay more for people as many would not be available to work.

As long as we import workers, and export jobs, there will be a surplus of labor.

 

[brewer12345]

Yes. What did happen to working harder,doing an outstanding job,climbing up the ladder and getting promoted?

It seems those days of rewarding employees for hard work are long gone?

Seems like workers are now disposable? shown the door once they become too expensive and experienced?

Its no wonder many millennials are mad and blame baby boomers for this new disposable job economy?

If fast food workers are willing to sit in the street and get arrested don't you think there is something going on in our society and economy?

When I made minimum wage years ago I could have never imagined this world we are living in now?

I am genuinely curious: in meatspace, do you do that obnoxious thing where every sentence is phrased and pitched like it is a question, even if it is not?

 

[Fermion]

I think a person is more likely to get sick from something eaten at a little diner ("hey, somebody ordered the white sauce again this week. Is this still good?") or at home. After all, why believe that the workers in the grocery store where we buy the stuff will be any more diligent about cleanliness and food storage temps than the workers in a McDonalds?

+1

My wife has seen a mother place her baby on top of the organic carrots at QFC while she rummaged through her purse for something. Imagine that healthy carrot crunch if you don't wash it well enough.

Other times I have observed kids handle the broccoli, put it back, then continue to mine gold in their nose.

If you don't pull it out of the ground on your own farm, you really don't know what is going on, fast food or not.

 

[UtahSkier]

If minimum wage goes to $15 I think it would be great and we would see a immediate jolt to the economy.

Every time the minimum wage is raised, there is the discussion about jobs lost either lost to outsourcing or automation.

The minimum wage was last raised in 2009. I can think of 2 classes of jobs that have been significantly reduced or eliminated;

Grocery store Cashiers... I almost always use the automated checkout system.

Parking cashiers... I was just downtown for a concert (The Eagles!). Not a person around. Stick a credit card and parking ticket into a machine and I am free! Same thing with airport parking. Haven't seen a person in the booth for 2 or 3 years now.

Like always, raising the minimum wage will create winners and losers. An increase to $15 will cause (IMO) an aggressive move towards automation where ever the technology is almost ready.

 

[purplesky]

I am genuinely curious: in meatspace, do you do that obnoxious thing where every sentence is phrased and pitched like it is a question, even if it is not?

Well. If I place a question mark after a sentence I guess I am writing a sentence that is a question? I think?

Does that answer your question?

 

[purplesky]

Every time the minimum wage is raised, there is the discussion about jobs lost either lost to outsourcing or automation.

The minimum wage was last raised in 2009. I can think of 2 classes of jobs that have been significantly reduced or eliminated;

Grocery store Cashiers... I almost always use the automated checkout system.

Parking cashiers... I was just downtown for a concert (The Eagles!). Not a person around. Stick a credit card and parking ticket into a machine and I am free! Same thing with airport parking. Haven't seen a person in the booth for 2 or 3 years now.

Like always, raising the minimum wage will create winners and losers. An increase to $15 will cause (IMO) an aggressive move towards automation where ever the technology is almost ready.

True. But those last workers standing at 15hr will be able to buy a Epic pass and hit The Canyons.

And lets be honest. The move to replace low wage workers with automation is going to happen sooner than later at any wage.

 

[Walt34]

I often see anger expressed in the "letters to the editor" section of the local paper expressing disgust at politicians for their failure to "create jobs".

Okay how, exactly, does one "create jobs"?

Someone sees a market opportunity that others have not. They offer a product or service that either no one else does or they've found a way to offer an existing product or service at a lower price.

Someone takes a risk to start a new business. One reads often out how some of them started. Mortgaged their homes, maxed out their credit cards, and once in a while one succeeds, and wildly. These people are celebrated because their risk-taking and hard work was rewarded. Another Horatio Alger story. The forgotten part is that the majority of course go bankrupt and sink into oblivion. They are remembered (if at all) as fools. Well, that's why it is risky to start a new business and why most of us don't!

So as their business grows, they need to hire help. In order to continue to exist a business must show a profit. (Why, in a capitalist society, some people think "profit" is a dirty word is a puzzle to me. It is the sole reason for taking a financial risk in the first place!) So in order to keep their expenses low and make a profit, and thus continue to exist and employ people, the business must obtain the help they need at the lowest possible price, or at least at a price lower than their competitors. That means that if Burger King is paying their workers $7.25/hour then McDonald's cannot afford to pay their workers $15/hour or their expenses, and therefore the price of their products, will price them out of business.

Okay, I get it's a bit more complicated than that.

But here's the thing. Like most of the people on this board I own stocks. Okay, they're in an index fund but they're stocks nonetheless. As a stockholder, I have exactly zero interest in what those businesses are paying their employees.

As a stockholder I only care about one thing: Is this business the best investment for my hard-earned dollars? Will it continue to grow and make a profit and pay dividends and will the stock price continue to increase? If not I don't want to have anything to do with it.

Nothing personal, it's just business.

And people act as if they think the world owes them a "living wage". News flash! The world doesn't owe you anything except, perhaps, the chance to try. A lot of people don't even get that. And that's why those people want to come to America.

 

[aja8888]

Well. If I place a question mark after a sentence I guess I am writing a sentence that is a question? I think?

Does that answer your question?

From what I see, you are making a statement and adding a question mark on it. That doesn't make it a question. For a question, you have to make a request for information. Something like this:

"Can someone here explain to me the process for drying out leather?"

 

[meierlde]

It seems to me that we are actually conducting somewhat of an experiment to see the effects of minimum wages with the differing wages in the various states. We will have in a couple of years actual data to compare the states and their economic performance. As well as for example to compare Seattle to Bellevue (just accross the lake in WA). So let some of the states perform as the labs of democracy, and we can see whose version of the results will come to pass.

 

[Lucantes]

As a stockholder I only care about one thing: Is this business the best investment for my hard-earned dollars? Will it continue to grow and make a profit and pay dividends and will the stock price continue to increase? If not I don't want to have anything to do with it.
Nothing personal, it's just business.
And people act as if they think the world owes them a "living wage". News flash! The world doesn't owe you anything except, perhaps, the chance to try. A lot of people don't even get that. And that's why those people want to come to America.

+1

 

[purplesky]

From what I see, you are making a statement and adding a question mark on it. That doesn't make it a question. For a question, you have to make a request for information. Something like this:

"Can someone here explain to me the process for drying out leather?"

My statements are also questions. It is possible.

I am requesting thought. Its freestyle.

 

[Lucantes]

I am doing pretty well also but I really lucked out working long term for a very successful megacorp combined with hard work.
Here is the problem now though in America?
20 to 25 years ago college grads and most high school grads could find a living wage job.
Globalization and technology and Corp. America and politics have changed the game for the American worker?
Is anybody looking out for the American worker? No
Is anybody looking out for Corp. Americas interests? Yes
How can the average worker really take responsibility in a economy that favors only the employer?
You have to admit that this economy is brutal for even college grads?

Considering my background, and where I started from, I do not feel that I "lucked out". I feel that I made certain choices to get where I am today and I am not ashamed about them. I did receive help from some very important people who came into my life, but at the end of the day it was up to me to take advantage of that help, or not. It is my responsibility to take care of me, at the end of the day I have only me to blame if it doesn’t work out.
I do believe that the "politics" that have developed over the past decades are the biggest threat to most Americans, but I also feel that we get exactly what we deserve (we get what we vote for, or don’t vote for as the case may be).
I believe that a hard working individual can still achieve the “American Dream”, if that is what they really want and are willing to put in the required effort for the long haul.
I have not seen any information that has convinced me that raising the minimum wage will be of any long term benefit to the average American worker or citizen.

 

[brewer12345]

Well. If I place a question mark after a sentence I guess I am writing a sentence that is a question? I think?

Does that answer your question?

I will take that as a yes.

 

[purplesky]

I often see anger expressed in the "letters to the editor" section of the local paper expressing disgust at politicians for their failure to "create jobs".

Okay how, exactly, does one "create jobs"?

Someone sees a market opportunity that others have not. They offer a product or service that either no one else does or they've found a way to offer an existing product or service at a lower price.

Someone takes a risk to start a new business. One reads often out how some of them started. Mortgaged their homes, maxed out their credit cards, and once in a while one succeeds, and wildly. These people are celebrated because their risk-taking and hard work was rewarded. Another Horatio Alger story. The forgotten part is that the majority of course go bankrupt and sink into oblivion. They are remembered (if at all) as fools. Well, that's why it is risky to start a new business and why most of us don't!

So as their business grows, they need to hire help. In order to continue to exist a business must show a profit. (Why, in a capitalist society, some people think "profit" is a dirty word is a puzzle to me. It is the sole reason for taking a financial risk in the first place!) So in order to keep their expenses low and make a profit, and thus continue to exist and employ people, the business must obtain the help they need at the lowest possible price, or at least at a price lower than their competitors. That means that if Burger King is paying their workers $7.25/hour then McDonald's cannot afford to pay their workers $15/hour or their expenses, and therefore the price of their products, will price them out of business.

Okay, I get it's a bit more complicated than that.

But here's the thing. Like most of the people on this board I own stocks. Okay, they're in an index fund but they're stocks nonetheless. As a stockholder, I have exactly zero interest in what those businesses are paying their employees.

As a stockholder I only care about one thing: Is this business the best investment for my hard-earned dollars? Will it continue to grow and make a profit and pay dividends and will the stock price continue to increase? If not I don't want to have anything to do with it.

Nothing personal, it's just business.

And people act as if they think the world owes them a "living wage". News flash! The world doesn't owe you anything except, perhaps, the chance to try. A lot of people don't even get that. And that's why those people want to come to America.

I own individual stocks and index funds,ETFs,etc and to tell you the truth I am kind of sick of this race to the bottom mentality on Wall street.

Ofcourse I care about profits and dividends. But part time workers on call that make $10hr have to be available to work up to the last minute depending on last minute employee scheduling software decisions and aren't even guaranteed work hours. Come on. That is just ridiculous.

We now have this part time job economy and millions of people are working 2 or 3 jobs into their 30s making no income living with their parents.

I am sorry but I just can't feel good about this current work culture.

The home builders are screwed. Nobody is going to be buying houses in this millennial generation economy.

I agree with making a solid investment in a company but shouldn't we pay some attention to how companies treat their employees and act as corporate
citizens?

Apple and Nike and many companies have had to make big changes because of how they conduct business in the world.

 

[purplesky]

Considering my background, and where I started from, I do not feel that I "lucked out". I feel that I made certain choices to get where I am today and I am not ashamed about them. I did receive help from some very important people who came into my life, but at the end of the day it was up to me to take advantage of that help, or not. It is my responsibility to take care of me, at the end of the day I have only me to blame if it doesn’t work out.
I do believe that the "politics" that have developed over the past decades are the biggest threat to most Americans, but I also feel that we get exactly what we deserve (we get what we vote for, or don’t vote for as the case may be).
I believe that a hard working individual can still achieve the “American Dream”, if that is what they really want and are willing to put in the required effort for the long haul.
I have not seen any information that has convinced me that raising the minimum wage will be of any long term benefit to the average American worker or citizen.

How will adding billions in wages to fuel our economy not benefit anyone?

Yes prices will go up here and there. So what. They need to.

Walmart and McDonalds and Starbucks wouldn't miss a beat.

 

[aja8888]

My statements are also questions. It is possible.

I am requesting thought. Its freestyle.

I give up......

 

[Lucantes]

How will adding billions in wages to fuel our economy not benefit anyone?
Yes prices will go up here and there. So what. They need to.

Walmart and McDonalds and Starbucks wouldn't miss a beat.

To me this is nothing more than stealing in its most basic form. I do not believe that it is adding anything to the economy, it is just taking from one group to give to another.
I have not seen any data suggesting that prices need to go up, what are you basing this on?
Every stockholder in those companies would miss a beat and I am one of them and my vote would be no.

 

[M Paquette]

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful contributions to this topic. It's time to draw down the curtains, though. Don't worry, there will be more topics to debate in the morning.