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Old 02-11-2016, 08:55 PM   #21
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And what about food? Once while traveling from the East Coast (Florida) across the country to the West Coast pulling a travel trailer, we stopped in a super Walmart to pick up some food items. It was one of the southern states (can't remember which one), and I was floored by the costs. I saw the bread I usually paid around $3.49 to $3.79 for $2.49. I saw many other items that were considerably cheaper as well. Now this was in a poorer area than where I lived, but these were name brand items and the costs were considerably less.

So, I question if things that have no contributing factors effecting cost, are just priced lower, like food, internet, cable, etc. Are they just priced lower because incomes are lower? Have others found this to be true?

And yes to the poster above me, to make sense of any of it, we need to know where people are located. At least the state would be helpful to make a comparison (though that can vary wildly as well) As someone guessed, I'm in Nevada.
I think the cost of food is so dependent on labor which is why costs vary so. Its everything from what the farmer gets, to what the driver, the butcher, the grocery store worker makes.. add to that the cheaper lease price and the fact that the owner doesn't need to make as much to still feel rich. The average driver in my parents small town would make $10/hr, the average driver in Chicago made $35/40. It is also very dependent on how far the food needs to travel...so places like Wisconsin which still has a lot of farms, the prices are way down (supply/demand) vs. Illinois so many farms were squeezed out to the way way outer burbs which meant sky high farmer market rates because they have to truck it in 50 miles, they have to worry about wilting/etc so more produce goes bad.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by modhatter View Post
So, I question if things that have no contributing factors effecting cost, are just priced lower, like food, internet, cable, etc. Are they just priced lower because incomes are lower? Have others found this to be true?
We've saved a lot by shopping and getting our cars serviced in further out suburbs even within the same metro area. I graphed the prices for 60K service work by various dealers on one of our cars and the further out into the suburbs the dealers were located, the cheaper and cheaper the prices got. I am sure part of it has to do with rent but I also think some of it is just what the market will bear. I think we saved something like $400 driving 40 minutes from home instead of going to the dealer in town.

We grocery shop mainly now at an outlet store 20 minutes from home and the prices are half of neighborhood retail grocery store.
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:39 PM   #23
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I think the cost of food is so dependent on labor which is why costs vary so. Its everything from what the farmer gets, to what the driver, the butcher, the grocery store worker makes.. add to that the cheaper lease price and the fact that the owner doesn't need to make as much to still feel rich. The average driver in my parents small town would make $10/hr, the average driver in Chicago made $35/40. It is also very dependent on how far the food needs to travel...so places like Wisconsin which still has a lot of farms, the prices are way down (supply/demand) vs. Illinois so many farms were squeezed out to the way way outer burbs which meant sky high farmer market rates because they have to truck it in 50 miles, they have to worry about wilting/etc so more produce goes bad.
Yes that is a good point. I considered the cost of miles driven from farm or distribution center to store. But the drivers are not local. They usually hail from where the food is distributed from. Produce is more farm dependent on agricultural areas, but items like bread, canned foods, etc. can come from all over.

But did not consider cost of real estate, taxes and labor for supermarket, which could be a big nut.

daylatedollarshort: You would think prices would be lower when there is competition. But if there is only one dealership in the city, then it would stand to reason, the one located in a more rural area could cost less.

That often times does not play out that way for many business, where there is little completion.
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Old 02-11-2016, 10:06 PM   #24
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Southeastern US: almost all our costs are lower, and sometimes much lower. We have a similar size house FYI.

Our car insurance was $240 for 6 months for 2 people, and now that we dropped to 1 car it'll be even lower.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:17 AM   #25
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Old 02-12-2016, 08:20 AM   #26
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If you really had to skimp, it really doesn't take much. Here are my numbers. Vehicle fuel, eating, personal expenses are not included.


Description (2015)MonthlyAnnual
cable/Internet$130.00 $1,560.00
Property taxes$199.65 $2,395.78
Utilities:Electric$112.73 $1,352.72
Utilities:Garbage$15.38 $184.54
Utilities:Natural Gas (heat)$100.42 $1,205.00
Utilities:Water$11.38 $136.53
Vehicle:Car Insurance (12 Civic)$68.33 $819.90
Vehicle:registration$25.63 $307.50
Vehicle:Truck insurance (03 F350)$54.38 $652.50
Total$717.87 $8,614.47
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:23 AM   #27
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In the past few years I lived all across the US/Canada in high, low, and medium COL areas. This includes San Jose, San Diego, Bishop CA, Santa Fe NM, Boulder CO, Ames IA, and Toronto (not in order). With the exception of Bishop and Toronto, I haven't noticed any significant difference in food prices.

Generally we prefer to shop at Costco, Trader Joes, and local ethnic markets. Costco/TJs are national chains and have fairly consistent pricing on food so my outcome might seem obvious. But we do pay attention to prices and if other local grocery stores were cheaper, we'd use them. I think you'd be hard pressed to beat some of costco prices anywhere (e.g., $3/lb bacon comes to mind).

I would have thought that Iowa, being an agricultural state, would be significantly cheaper. But it wasn't. It turns out that Iowa imports 90% of their food. Yes sometimes you can get screaming deals on food like $1/pint of blueberries in season -- but they still need to be imported in winter along with all your other fruits and vegetables. And lots of other food we like needs to be imported year round (e.g. salmon, quinoa, etc.)

Now if you're comparing a local Iowa chain like Fareway to Ralphs/Vons/Safeway in California. Then yes Iowa is going to be significantly cheaper. But that's not how we shop.

YMMV. This is just my own observations for the food we like to buy in the places we visited. Also we don't do coupons or search for "closeout specials". E.g. some grocery stores have too much stock and need to cut prices dramatically before the expiration date -- Costco and TJs are much better about managing stock and rarely, if ever, need to do this.

Edit: we spend around $400/month on food for 2. Mostly meat, veggies, fruits, dairy, cheap wine. Some organic. Very little in the way of breads, starches, pasta. Very little prepared foods.
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:58 AM   #28
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Hey Photoguy -
Since you've been hanging in SoCal - you should check out some of the ethnic markets that have GREAT prices. Specifically 99 Ranch Market and Zion Market. We buy our fish at Zion Market - so fresh it's actually still swimming in tanks when you select it (and then they do the cleaning/scaling/filleting for you. Produce is far cheaper there as well.

I rarely use Vons... shopping at Costco, Sprouts, and Zion.
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:22 AM   #29
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Thanks for note Rodi. Actually my wife just suggested we go to Zion market as it's a korean food store. Although she is not Korean (from Iowa) she likes a bunch of korean food except for kimchi. I need to watch out as it's comfort food for me and I tend to overeat on some of the less healthy/salty stuff.

For those that want to compare food prices, I found their flyer online: Welcome to Zion Market!
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:00 AM   #30
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We have had many posts on this subject, and it all comes down to where you live and do you have a paid off house. We all discuss mortgages/rent, & RE taxes as being the big culprit and kind of assume that all other costs must be somewhat similar. But I wonder how varied they can be.

As an example. I consider these expenses highlighted as high and think others may have more reasonable costs elsewhere.

Utility costs: I average approx. $350 per month all year round for utilities for a 1700 sq. ft house in the desert. (about $600 in summer months)
(Winter 68 degrees, summer 77 degrees)

Car insurance runs approx $240 a month for two cars (older cars)

Registration; Around $400 a yr. for two cars.

Cox cable (internet only) $68 mo. and soon to increase (only Netfix and Amazon Prime, along with OTA TV at about $18 mo extra)

Medicare Supplemental Insurance (Plan J -similar to F) $254 mo. for just me.

Dental seems outrageous here. Had a root canal done on front tooth. Took dentist all of 15 minutes. That cost $1,340 and that is without a cap which will be $1,200 more.

Food is hard for me to judge. Loaf of better bread $3.99. Gal of milk $3.49
Orange juice $3.99 Qt., Eggs $3.99 or $4.99 for Eggs Best. Ground beef $5.99+ lb. Don't know if that is high, med or low.

If we stop for an inexpensive meal somewhere, the cheapest meal usually runs around $12 ea., plus drinks and tip.

Home insurance seems normal to me. Runs about $650 a year (not counting an additional $340 for a @ million umbrella.

Real Estate Taxes are reasonable at about $1,800 a year and we don't have state income taxes, so that off sets the higher utility costs and maybe a bit of the high auto insurance costs.

All these costs are regional differences and we all must budget for them. Do you find much of a difference in these cost in your area. I am in the Southwest.
I thought we had high auto insurance rates in the Orlando area at $145 per month for full coverage (and relatively high limits and low deductibles) for two older cars. Have you shopped your auto insurance lately? We have USAA.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:03 AM   #31
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I thought we had high auto insurance rates in the Orlando area at $145 per month for full coverage (and relatively high limits and low deductibles) for two older cars. Have you shopped your auto insurance lately? We have USAA.
+1

Modhatter, you state you have "older cars". Have you considered dropping everything but liability coverage?
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:22 AM   #32
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Property tax - $2873.04/$239.42
HOI - $1050.39/$87.53
Auto ins - $782/$65.17
Elec - $1117.44/$93.12
NatGas - $468.32/$39.03
Water/Sewer/Refuse - $766.86/$63.91
Mobile - $764.28/$63.69
Internet - $757.92/$63.16
Auto registration - $81.50/$6.79
Auto inspection - $25.50/$2.13
Med/Den Ins - $2501.28/$208.44
LTCI - $1546.08/$128.84
Lawn Care - $739.40/$61.62
Auto fuel - $437.21/$36.43

$13911.22/$1159.27

I don't track miscellaneous very well...

Since I have a (gasp, argh) mortgage, tack about six grand onto that.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:13 AM   #33
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So, one thing at a time.

Food...
While we have a HiVee (similar to Whole Foods), we don't shop there, and don't even shop at Walmart, 'cept for a few items. I won't pretend that yhese prices are an "always" thing, but they represent a good balance of what we buy at Aldi's, when they're on sale.
Eggs.. now $.99/doz regularly
Milk.. $1.49/gal
Avacados... $.39 to $.89 this week $.49
Lettuce... $.99
Canned soups now regularly $1.19
Baby carrots... $.49/lb
Bananas $.44/lb... currently $.29/lb
Non brand frosted flakes and honey oats... newly priced $1.19
Chicken thighs or breasts... $.89 to $99/lb.
12 pack no brand cola,,, $2.29 always
Iced Tea mix $1.89 ... makes 3 gallons.
White bread $.89... Whole wheat $1.49
Bagels 6 large $1.69
Dry roasted peanuts $1.89/lb
Ham... Shank $.89/lb, Butt $1.19/lb, spiral $1.49/lb.
Red Potatoes 5lb/ $1.29
Lactose free milk 6 "flavors $2.29/ 1/2 gal.
Butterball turkeys always $1.19/lb.
Mushrooms $.49 to $.69

Just some of the items we buy on a regular basis. We figure that we save from 25% to 40% over Walmart and HiVee.

Yeah... so not a really big part of the annual cost of living, but it adds up.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:42 AM   #34
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Just a few more items.

We live in a unitary city, where the city handles the water, sewer, electric and trash removal billing. Because we own our own water power electric plant (on the Illinois River) our rates are quite low. Figuring out actual comparison rates is almost impossible these days The best comparison I can make is that the KWH rate is under $.08, while the rate at our campground (Commonwealth Edison) is almost $.15 KWH.
In our Florida mfg home community, the electric, sewer and water, and trash removal are also under the unitary government umbrella.

Most of us have made our decisions as to where we want to retire. Anyone who is still looking, should... yeah, you really should... go to :

City-Data.com - Stats about all US cities - real estate, relocation info, crime, house prices, cost of living, races, home value estimator, recent sales, income, photos, schools, maps, weather, neighborhoods, and more

...to see the comparative cost of living. We still find it incredible to see that the median household income is less than $46,000 while the suburb where we used to live in near Chicago... (Naperville)... only 90 miles away,, has a median family income of more than $105,000.

This HAS to be reflected in the cost of living. One son, who lives there now (but who is planning to retire and relocate soon) has a house tax of over $12,000.

Proximity to employment location may be necessary during the pre-retirement years, but unless there are other factors, such a close family ties, there must be a question as to whether higher expenses are worth staying on, especially when the bonuses of better education, and upscale community services are not so necessary once we are retired.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:53 AM   #35
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Monthly Budget for raising 3 kids in PNW (at least till college starts next year):

Electric/Gas/Water/Sewer/Trash - 265/mon
Internet/Netflix - 57/mon
Property Tax - 373/mon
Auto Ins (05 Acura/06 Odessey) 26/mon
Life Insurance - 32/mon
Phone (3 iPhones) - 53/mon
Medical Ins - 48/mon
Dental Ins - 132/mon
Food (family of 5) - 900/mon
Household Spending (Everything else that doesn't fit in one of those categories) - 3940/mon
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:03 PM   #36
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+1

Modhatter, you state you have "older cars". Have you considered dropping everything but liability coverage?
I can't do that and carry an umbrella policy. Must carry a limit of $500,000/$100,000/$300,000 to be able to purchase umbrella. I shopped price when I first moved here three years ago. Need to do it again at renewal time.

imoldernu Those are some really low prices. I have read a lot about Aldi's but unfortunately we don't have one here and they apparently are not planning on any. But sure wish we did.

We do have Trader Joes, which I like for certain items. Some of their items are reasonable, and some are high. But they have some unique items that you just can't get other places that are really good. Great coffee ice cream, and a mango sorbet to die for. There's also a new pizza they are carrying now that is really great. Just can't remember the name of it, but for freezer pizza, can't be beat.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:14 PM   #37
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Oh Mod, that's not the case. You can have liability only and still get umbrella. They are both liability coverages. The other coverage, called comprehensive and collision, is for your car only, and I have never carried it. But I've had umbrella coverage for years.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:57 PM   #38
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People like to compare food prices, but food cost is never a problem for us, certainly not now as we are empty nesters. Or is it because my wife knows where to shop for bargains, or is it because we eat so little?

A grocery store near us constantly runs specials such as 3 lbs of Roma tomatoes for 99c, or 3 lbs of onion, or 3 lbs of lime (what do you do with that many limes?), 3 lbs of carrots, 3 lbs of banana, 3 lbs of pineapple, etc... for $1. And 5 small avocados for $1, and 4 cucumbers for $1. How much can we eat?

Is it because here in the Southwest we are closer to Mexico or South America where the produce is grown? And Yuma, AZ, is the source of 90 percent of the nation’s leafy vegetables from November–March.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:43 AM   #39
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People like to compare food prices, but food cost is never a problem for us, certainly not now as we are empty nesters. Or is it because my wife knows where to shop for bargains, or is it because we eat so little?

A grocery store near us constantly runs specials such as 3 lbs of Roma tomatoes for 99c, or 3 lbs of onion, or 3 lbs of lime (what do you do with that many limes?), 3 lbs of carrots, 3 lbs of banana, 3 lbs of pineapple, etc... for $1. And 5 small avocados for $1, and 4 cucumbers for $1. How much can we eat?
I've changed my habits to spend on groceries like you do, but I had to start a price book, learn to shop at the stores with specials or regularly low prices, and also cook more from scratch. My main grocery shopping trip this month was under $100 for 2 and that included a significant amount of wine and beer.

I have a lot of cookbooks from thrift shops and library book sales with some interesting ethnic and whole foods recipes to try. A healthy wok meal we had recently with quinoa and sprouted brown rice, organic eggs and veggies was inspired by a thrift shop Buddhist cookbook. It is nice to have the time these days to pick up interesting cookbooks and then try out the different recipes.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:04 PM   #40
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So, one thing at a time.

Food...
While we have a HiVee (similar to Whole Foods), we don't shop there, and don't even shop at Walmart, 'cept for a few items. I won't pretend that yhese prices are an "always" thing, but they represent a good balance of what we buy at Aldi's, when they're on sale.
Eggs.. now $.99/doz regularly
Milk.. $1.49/gal
Avacados... $.39 to $.89 this week $.49
Lettuce... $.99
Canned soups now regularly $1.19
Baby carrots... $.49/lb
Bananas $.44/lb... currently $.29/lb
Non brand frosted flakes and honey oats... newly priced $1.19
Chicken thighs or breasts... $.89 to $99/lb.
12 pack no brand cola,,, $2.29 always
Iced Tea mix $1.89 ... makes 3 gallons.
White bread $.89... Whole wheat $1.49
Bagels 6 large $1.69
Dry roasted peanuts $1.89/lb
Ham... Shank $.89/lb, Butt $1.19/lb, spiral $1.49/lb.
Red Potatoes 5lb/ $1.29
Lactose free milk 6 "flavors $2.29/ 1/2 gal.
Butterball turkeys always $1.19/lb.
Mushrooms $.49 to $.69

Just some of the items we buy on a regular basis. We figure that we save from 25% to 40% over Walmart and HiVee.

Yeah... so not a really big part of the annual cost of living, but it adds up.
I think the biggest difference in where you live goes beyond price to how acceptable the place is. I've tried Aldis, but the ones near me are dirty, gross, the food is often near spoiled or spoiled and most of the meat is frost bitten.. so it may be cheap, but I'm not that desperate to eat it.

I found the same in Chicago until about 2008 when food at Aldis started to improve. While I can go shopping with my parents in Appleton/Green Bay Wi and their Aldis are wonderful and I'd totally shop there all the time if I lived there.
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