A tale of woe

[DEC-1982]

Feel very bad/sad for OP.

My plan was to upgrade near the end of the free 1 year period. Will have to reconsider said plan, especially after reading posts suggesting W10 only with new system.

 

[TallTim]

@ OP, very sad to hear it ... but it's not the first or last Windows upgrade nightmare we're going to hear. And it's also why our whole household went cold-turkey Mac about 18 months ago.

3 ipads, 5 ipods, 4 iphones, 2 imacs and an aging jellybean later, we're not going back! I'm a relatively happy MSFT shareholder, but not a user/customer any longer

 

[imoldernu]

Thank you... Thank you... Thank you...

As you may guess, I won't really give up, but this is going to take time, be a learning experience, and hopefully some helpful exercise for my creeping AZ.

Am finding that in my smarter years, I saved much of the important stuff... l wills, titles and legal stuff on CD's or thumb drives.

The UBCD ISO brings me to "Parted Magic"... a linux program that is supposed to allow "fixing" of whatever's broken... It lets me in to Firefox, so I can stiil explore the problems and do email etc. The rest of linux... not so easy for a newbie, especially a newbie that has no idea of what the acronyms mean.

Anyway, I can still see all of the original system... files etc, etc., so expect after a while I'll be able to find "stuff".

The strangest problem came from my accidental formatting of, and putting UBCD on that 2T hard drive. First... the device manager sees and names the file. The problem is that windows doesn't recognize the drive in any way. At one time, I found a site that said the "descriptor code" was missing. For the techies... I connected the hard drive to my Sony Media Player.... It shows the UBCD Files, so the drive is ok... (Sony doesn't do anything, as it's looking for picture, music, or photo files)... which all were deleted when I accidentally formatted the drive.

Seagate is an unfriendly support site... Windows tries to be helpful but it would take three years to follow their instructions. I'll try some of the suggestions that ali stair and jimbee made...

..................................................................................
As to Windows 10... Since the world didn't fall apart, I'm guessing that most upgrades went well, with no problems. If that had been the case with me, I'd be a Microsoft fan... when I go to the web for answers, I find that not everyone is in good shape. Some of my specific questions bring up Google hits of more than 1 million, to the point that there are more questions than answers. The answers that seem to work, are not "fixit" programs, but lines and lines of Dos commands.

Fortunately, my computers are all old, refurbs,or hand me downs where my investment in total for 7 computers is less than $2K. Going forward, will likely look at Apple.

Did Microsoft help themselves with this new roll out?

Just my opinion...

 

[NW-Bound]

Have decided to forego computers and get in to politics. Too old to do anyting else...

You are kidding, right? I am gradually losing interest in computers, and about politics, hell, why would I want the aggravation just thinking about it?

Nowadays, if there's anything I still find interesting, it's how to make more money with passive investing. Even if something is challenging, I would only get engaged if it has a promise to pay off.

About Win 10, a few months ago a little pop-up box came up on my screen to seduce me to register for a free update. I am not sure what that thing has been doing to my computer in the background over that long time, but it said it would let me know.

After reading about your fiasco I have just run a full backup on my PC. Still, I don't know why I should bother with this update. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

I still remember the time I installed SP4 for Win 2000. After the installation, the PC was dead as a doorstop. Research on MS Web site found an article that said that SP4 was not compatible with the DAT (Digital Audio Tape) drive that was on my machine. Great!

Could I remove the drive from the SCSI controller to help? Nope, that would not work, as harm had been irreversibly done. The only solution or work-around offered by that MS KB (Knowledge Base) article was to reinstall Win 2000. I did not lose the drive's content, but the recovery was slow and painful.

I still curse at MS to this day. They knew that SP4 was not compatible with the DAT drive, still did not run a hardware test to detect it before installation. What a bunch of ...<blank>... programmers!

 

[richfei]

For backups and cloning I would buy one of these dual HDD docks and some external drives. Full clone takes 3 hours and individual file copying is very fast when using USB 3.0. It's a cheap option too since 2TB drives go for $70.

For data recovery, I've tried a few applications including Minitool Power receovery and EaseUS. Just google them. The one which recovered more files was Minitool

It is painful to lose anything. So hopefully you can recover everything vital and personal

 

[stlguy57]

Get a Mac. There's a bit of a learning curve but it "just works". Do yourself a favor and dump the Windows stress. I did. NEVER will go back.

 

[stlguy57]

I used to drink the Windows Kool-Aid by the gallon but had to stop because the taste got to be so bitter.

 

[easysurfer]

....


Anyway, I can still see all of the original system... files etc, etc., so expect after a while I'll be able to find "stuff".

...

Hopefully, you'll be able to at least get the important data files somewhere safe.

A system is replaceable, but important data is not.

Having been burned a few times in the past, I'm one of those folks who say backing up is my friend and not my foe.

 

[panacea]

Get a Mac. There's a bit of a learning curve but it "just works". Do yourself a favor and dump the Windows stress. I did. NEVER will go back.

Glad to hear you say this. Just put an order in for our first Mac. A little nervous about compatibility with Excel and Word... really like those programs.

To the OP... my chest just tightens up reading this. This kind of stuff drives me crazy. I've been seeing the windows 10 update pop up on my PC and keep wondering if I should do it. Guess I won't be doing that. Sorry for your pain but it's an excellent PSA to us all. Thank you for that.

 

[Meadbh]

Glad to hear you say this. Just put an order in for our first Mac. A little nervous about compatibility with Excel and Word... really like those programs.

Don't worry. The Mac versions of Excel and Word work exactly the same as the PC versions. I had no trouble making that transition.

What I do miss is some of the programs that simply are not available for Mac.

 

[spncity]

If you live anywhere near an Apple Store, get the $99 1-year membership with your computer purchase ... It lets you sign up for one-to-one training that is amazingly helpful when you are switching to Mac.

From what I recall, you can only buy it when you buy a computer.

Kindest regards.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Bestwifeever]

I went with the Macbook Pro this week because I am just tired of reconfiguring my Dell laptop--it's almost three years old and came with Windows 8; I looked forward to Windows 10 but when it screwed things up with my wifi, I really didn't want to restore Windows 8. The Dell was around $500 so I will probably continue to use it plugged into the router for banking and use the Mac for everything else.

I really loved the MSDOS machines because you *could* easily go into them and change settings when needed (so go figure) but I think I am past that for what I want a computer to do these days. DH has a six year old Version of the Mac I just bought and has never had a bit of trouble with it. He is computer-challenged so that is a good thing.

I did get the $99 one-on-one program but good news for DH, they will let him piggyback on it--he was also able to extend his for three or so years as he was making movies and websites and needed guidance. He more than made up for the people who never use theirs after they pay for it.

I would drink the Apple Koolaid but the cultish ambiance of the store just makes me laugh every time we go in there (seriously, someone named the helper area the "Genius Bar"? With a straight face?). I just know I will get kicked out of the one-on-one sessions.

 

[panacea]

If you live anywhere near an Apple Store, get the $99 1-year membership with your computer purchase ... It lets you sign up for one-to-one training that is amazingly helpful when you are switching to Mac.

Thanks for the tip. Sounds like a good idea although I'd realistically not likely do this unless the users manual is terrible. Also wondering if there's a YouTube tutorial. Seems like you can find everything on YouTube now!

 

[Fermion]

I had sort of insider knowledge windows 10 would be bad from friends but it isn't even worth trading on since the stock is actually near an all time high.

 

[Koolau]

Get a Mac. There's a bit of a learning curve but it "just works". Do yourself a favor and dump the Windows stress. I did. NEVER will go back.

Counting 3 Macs at w*rk, I've now had 7 Macs in 30 years (heh, heh, maybe they were called Apple back then, I forget.) One was a used one from w*rk and it did eventually just "quit" (not a crash, I don't think. It simply would no longer power up. My desk top is DW's. She plays games in addition to the stuff I do.) Other than that, I've been relatively free of hardware and OS issues. I'm still trying to master my newest laptop. Lots of changes since my last one (which still works and is my back up) but virtually everything from the old one seems to be compatible with the new one - though I've not "stressed" it. When my Megacorp switched to PC (mid 90's) I had nothing but trouble, but we had a whole IT staff who was pretty good at fixing or replacing as needed. Don't recall ever calling IT (or knowing they existed) back when I was using a Mac at w*rk. I sure hope I don't jinx myself with all this talk.

Honest to gosh, not bragging or trying to add to anyone's woes, but (other than cost) I have wondered why folks seem to gravitate toward Windows. I understand that there may be more applications, but I can't seem to use all the ones I have on my Mac. So, okay, I am a proud dinosaur, but other than that... what is the attraction of Windows?

Does anyone know if Macs have issues when updating the OS? I've never done it nor found any particular reason to do so. Again, I use the computer for email, Web Surfing, ER Forum, spread sheets, "typing", music, DVDs, etc. Not a power user, so I'm sure I'm missing a lot - though I don't miss it. So, respectfully, I guess I'm adding my endorsement of Macs to stlguy57's. Especially when it comes to computers (and their OSs) YMMV.

 

[NW-Bound]

As most people, I use Windows because I used it for work, then accumulated a lot of programs for it. I curse at MS more than most, but would not want to move to Apple now. The way Apple controls everything just p*ssed me off. Just trying to load some MP3 files into an iPod or iPhone requires the user to jump through hoops with their iTune store crap. What a scam! With my no-name MP3 player, I simply hook it up to a USB port on my PC and start moving files no differently than into a flash memory stick. Same with my wife's Android tablet.

I should start spending more time with Linux and particularly Android devices if MS keeps screwing up. No point in going from one flavor of Kool Aid to another.

 

[braumeister]

Does anyone know if Macs have issues when updating the OS? I've never done it nor found any particular reason to do so.

With a few minor exceptions, no.

I bought my first one, a Macintosh Plus, in 1987 and have been using them continuously since then. No idea how many hunks of hardware I've gone through, but a lot. I religiously updated the OS every time a new one came out, and I can only remember a few isolated instances of problems, all of them minor, and I don't recall ever losing any data.

During my w*rking life, I had to be a power user of both Windows and Unix systems, so I understand the frustration so many feel. The Mac OS nowadays is based on Unix, which is one of the things that makes it so powerful and stable.

 

[NW-Bound]

Years ago, I read an article where an MS executive lamented about the difference between Windows and Apple OS. A piece of software like a device driver can wreak havoc with the OS. Windows has been more open where 3rd parties can write low-level software to insert into the kernel, while Mac OS is closely controlled by Apple. That reduces the potential problem that Apple would face.

I wrote device drivers for MS-DOS decades ago, and only wrote some programs for Windows. I have no experience with Mac OS to know if what the MS executive said was correct or not.

 

[MichaelB]

Years ago, I read an article where an MS executive lamented about the difference between Windows and Apple OS. A piece of software like a device driver can wreak havoc with the OS. Windows has been more open where 3rd parties can write low-level software to insert into the kernel, while Mac OS is closely controlled by Apple. That reduces the potential problem that Apple would face.

I wrote device drivers for MS-DOS decades ago, and only wrote some programs for Windows. I have no experience with Mac OS to know if what the MS executive said was correct or not.

Platform integrity and stability were never critical requirements for MS. When IBM offered OS/2, a much more stable and secure PC operating system, MS called it "useless overhead" because it required more system resources. Allowing open access to the core by third parties has always been the greatest flaw IMHO.

 

[NW-Bound]

Programmers like to be able to poke their filthy grubby fingers into the OS internals, hence there's more software for Windows vs. Mac OS. But there should have been mechanisms to protect the OS and to allow the user to recover once he discovers that security has been breached. Linux is fully open-sourced software. Does it have the same problem as Windows?

I recall writing a device driver to have my own floppy format for MS-DOS. Remember the days of 5" floppies? The standard floppy is 360K for double-sided 40-track 9-sector drive (512B x 9 x 2 x 40 = 360K) , and you need to get the expensive AT-style 80-track high-density drive and floppies to get 1.2M. I happened to be able to buy a surplus 80-track drive which was not high-density, and proceeded to write a device driver for it.

By programming a reduced sector spacing, I could fit 10 sectors on a track, and also eked out non-standard 4 extra tracks. So, my floppies could hold 840K (512B x 10 x 84 x 2). Those were the days of 20MB hard drives, so my super floppies were just great for archiving. My device driver software also did write-caching. Man, talk about performance!

I still have that drive somewhere in the house. And the floppies too!

 

[stlguy57]

Koolau, I've had a Mac through about 3 or 4 versions of the operating system. I apply the upgrades as they come out as well as doing the minor patches along the way. Never have had a problem and the upgrades have been at no charge. I suspect they go smoothly because I don't go and tweak and change files "under the covers". I let everything update on it's own without interference. I would urge you to update on a regular basis to the most current versions or patches as some of them are security patches/upgrades.

Full disclosure...be sure you back up your machine on a regular basis, Mac or Windows. This is just good practice for all those pictures and critical files.

It's fascinating to me that folks are willing to put up with Windows issues and the associated stress while at the same time calling the Mac users "Apple Fanboys or Kool-Aid Drinkers." Maybe they should try what we already know and become a Fanboy?

 

[Lakewood90712]

Whatever happened to to good ol days when before any action that would format a disk, it asks at least 3 times " are you sure " before proceeding ?

FWIW the last time I installed a new os, it was win 95 . Have been buying new low end machines when the last 2 laptops died.

 

[Redbugdave]

I am sorry to hear about your computers, Imoldernu. I can see how easily this could happen when upgrading or reverting back. I think Microsoft has put a lot of resources into upgrading and little for the ones that do not like Win 10 and want to revert back.

Take your computers into a computer repair place and let them recover and fix your computers. You need the data...so just spend the money and get things fixed. I have been that route in the past and it's the best. Water under the bridge.

 

[alistair]

Not to digress the OP even further, but...

Macs are great fire and forget computers. They work well and are nice designs. Downsides include price and walled garden. For most people, the walled garden isn't an issue.

I agree that Windows computers are less and less "tinkerable" these days (unless you spend a fair amount of time at it).

If you really want to tinker, go with Linux. Probably the best bet for those concerned with privacy too.

Chrome OS is a good alternative and relatively cheap way of going the fire and forget method (albeit even more walled garden than a Mac). Great family/kitchen/surfing web computers, but generally not power horses.

 

[FreeBear]

imoldernu,

Sorry about the headache, frustration, and data loss. I did something silly a few years ago on my Mac. The Mac OSX formatting tool allows you to see the entire drive name (not just an abstract identifier), but I STILL killed the wrong partition. Fortunately, I had a fully backup on a separate drive.

All Mac users & potential mac users:

I don't disagree that Mac's can be more foolproof, but feel compelled to proselytize a bit about the importance of backups. Fortunately, Apple has a decent backup system "Time Machine" as part of their OSX operating system. Still, I'm amazed by how many people don't invest in a cheap usb3 backup drive so that Time Machine can do it's thing. Apple Time Capsule is an even slicker WiFi alternative. Just do it, especially laptop "droptop" folks!

Also, make sure to occasionally check that Time Machine is running properly. The time of the last backup is shown by clicking the Time Machine Icon in the top menu bar. It wouldn't hurt to actually enter Time Machine and poke around; give confidence that "stuff is really there".

Even better, in ADDITION to Time Machine, consider "cloning" the boot drive and even the data drive(s) with software such as SuperDuper. This puts a functionally identical copy of your drive onto your backup. So, you can even boot your Mac from the external drive, complete with all your software and any user customization. This is a huge help to you or your designated Geek in case of trouble.

Running Time Machine allows me to "go back in time" by every hour the computer is on, allowing me to easily reverse accidental deletions or look for old versions if I accidentally save the wrong thing over something valuable.

In contrast, I run the backup clones roughly every month, depending how much critical data I add (typically photos). This serves as a 2nd backup and allows access to my computer even if a drive completely fries.

Aside: get a flash (SSD) drive for your Mac, either as-purchased or as a priority upgrade. You won't fully appreciate a modern computer without one. They are much master than the old spinning hard drives and potentially more reliable and robust.

FB