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Old 07-10-2007, 03:43 PM   #21
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newguy is just an angry American.........

I for one am thankful for our troops. I think most Americans take our military completely for granted.

And that needs to change.........
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:31 PM   #22
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I think being angry about the whole situation is OK. Heck, even some of those I served with had similar thoughts.

What gets me is the way everyone wants to legislate a defeat. I've been trained for the last 22 years that our Army is the best and we can do anything. Most of us believe it, in some form or another.

What bothers many of us is the possibility of being handed a defeat by the legislature. Who wants to be a volunteer member of a loosing military, in a country where the population doesn't have the guts to let the military fight the war?
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:51 PM   #23
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Legislate a defeat,?? .How so?
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:25 PM   #24
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I think being angry about the whole situation is OK. Heck, even some of those I served with had similar thoughts.

What gets me is the way everyone wants to legislate a defeat. I've been trained for the last 22 years that our Army is the best and we can do anything. Most of us believe it, in some form or another.

What bothers many of us is the possibility of being handed a defeat by the legislature. Who wants to be a volunteer member of a loosing military, in a country where the population doesn't have the guts to let the military fight the war?
Share with us your definition of "win"? What are the objectives, how do we obtain them? Seems the generals running the war don't have any clear definition on either what they are supposed to do, or how to do it(or maybe the objectives just keep changing). I have no doubt the military has the ability to kill every living organism in the country, but if we Nuke the place, turn it all to glass parking lot, do we win? and if you answer is yes, what did we win? Shouldn't it have been clear, before we went in, what the definition of winning was? How can you win a war if you don't know where the finish line is?
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:28 PM   #25
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Share with us your definition of "win"? What are the objectives, how do we obtain them? Seems the generals running the war don't have any clear definition on either what they are supposed to do, or how to do it(or maybe the objectives just keep changing). I have no doubt the military has the ability to kill every living organism in the country, but if we Nuke the place, turn it all to glass parking lot, do we win? and if you answer is yes, what did we win? Shouldn't it have been clear, before we went in, what the definition of winning was? How can you win a war if you don't know where the finish line is?

Win means an american siding government. that the oil starts being pumped by american companies that the infrastructure is rebuilt by american companies.

get the picture.
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Old 07-10-2007, 11:08 PM   #26
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Please stop this- it really makes me write more!

Bimmerbill, no offense, but your comment baffles me. Are you saying that we should continue fighting in Iraq to avoid the humiliation of defeat. You confuse guts to fight with stupidity and immorality. We are fighting there, creating more terrorists, and increasing hated for the US in other Muslim countries. The attitude that we should fight there because of the fact that the military must not lose just does not make sense.

Financedude, I'm thankful for our troops, also. I was one of them. However, I'm not thankful for where are troops have been placed. As for the Vietnam War, it was a war on lies. I think Pres. Bush commented at some point in the past that we did not have the determination in the Vietnam War to win. We have no right to win a war based on lies. I served there and made more Vietnamese friends than most. I still travel very frequently to Saigon to see all my old friends. They've forgiven us. I hope the Iraqis can do the same.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:00 AM   #27
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Bimmerbill, no offense, but your comment baffles me. Are you saying that we should continue fighting in Iraq to avoid the humiliation of defeat. You confuse guts to fight with stupidity and immorality. We are fighting there, creating more terrorists, and increasing hated for the US in other Muslim countries. The attitude that we should fight there because of the fact that the military must not lose just does not make sense.

Financedude, I'm thankful for our troops, also. I was one of them. However, I'm not thankful for where are troops have been placed. As for the Vietnam War, it was a war on lies. I think Pres. Bush commented at some point in the past that we did not have the determination in the Vietnam War to win. We have no right to win a war based on lies. I served there and made more Vietnamese friends than most. I still travel very frequently to Saigon to see all my old friends. They've forgiven us. I hope the Iraqis can do the same.
A key point was made regarding the Iraq War a couple years ago. The young Iraqis under age 20 WILL SHAPE the country going ahead.

I don't think we'll know if it was "worth it" for 20 years or so..............
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Old 07-13-2007, 09:38 AM   #28
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Win means an american siding government. that the oil starts being pumped by american companies that the infrastructure is rebuilt by american companies.

get the picture.
nothing confusing about this.

stay until the theft of the resource is complete.

At least he's honest. No nonsense about ideals and spreading democracy etc.
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